Patriarch Ilia II calls for ban on "gay rights march" "Gay-Rights Rally"

Gunnarr

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podkarpatska said:
You are mostly missing Michal's point. Metropolitan Hilarion of the MP wrote a blogpost several years ago about the fragility of Orthodoxy in pre-Revolutionary Russia and his fear about the possible course of the future of its post communist revival. I couldn't find the original link, it was a thread years ago, but I found this excerpt, relevant here:

"(Metropolitan Hilarion) warns against a type of reactionary Orthodoxy that I see all too much of in the news:

The second danger is that. of militant Orthodoxy, which would be a post-atheist counterpart of militant atheism. I mean an Orthodoxy that fights against Jews, against masons, against democracy, against Western culture, against enlightenment. This type of Orthodoxy is being preached even by some key members of the hierarchy, and it has many supporters within the Church."

http://livingtext.wordpress.com/category/orthodoxy/
Except you leave out everything before, where he talks about how the rise of atheism came about BECAUSE of the enlightenment ideals, causing even the church itself to lose much of its values and become secularized. And, pointing out, even today it is happening in the Russian church especially with the laity who are brought up in such "western" mindsets. ( I would argue it is happening in all the churches) Of course, the blogger you linked to laments there was no reformation in Russia. And points out, after the quote you said claims

"Perhaps there are movements within Russia that are moving ad fontes back to the Scriptures, but what I see is a reactionary movement that glories in the past and believe in a crystalized version of unchanging doctrine. I believe all this is greatly to the disadvantage of the Russian Church and nation. May God grant them more light and the ability to change where they need to."

Reactionary movement that glories in the past and BELIEVE IN A CRYSTALIZED VERSION OF UNCHANGING DOCTRINE

This brings up a good point, there seems to be many in the Orthodox Church today who are against unchanging doctrine, instead are for changing it! (largely just to fit the mold of the "enlightened" ideals they were taught in secular schools...)



 

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I know some of the hard-line priests who led the counter protest. They're kind and sincere people and their hearts are certainly in the right place, though I don't agree with their methods or some of their opinions.

Patriarch Ilia belongs to a much more moderate trend within the Georgian Church, and anyone who knows him would find the idea that he would be in favour of violent opposition absurd.
 

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Orthodox11 said:
Patriarch Ilia belongs to a much more moderate trend within the Georgian Church, and anyone who knows him would find the idea that he would be in favour of violent opposition absurd.
I agree with this assessment. I have heard Patriarch Ilia also condemned the violence, but I cannot find a source. I am not too good at finding any releases from the georgian church.

I also agree with Patriarch Ilia being a moderate, seeing as he left the World Council of "Churches", albiet only because many of the most prestigious monasteries threatened to cease commemoration of him unless he left the organization.
 

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Elpidophoros said:
How do you explain this?
minasoliman said:
Why is Adam, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. all venerated, all glorified?  Was every part of their existence infallible?
Those people were set aside for the purposes of God. That's what holy means.

We aren't methodists. Being a saint doesn't mean that person was "physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight" or whatever.
 

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NicholasMyra said:
Elpidophoros said:
How do you explain this?
minasoliman said:
Why is Adam, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. all venerated, all glorified?  Was every part of their existence infallible?
Those people were set aside for the purposes of God. That's what holy means.

We aren't methodists. Being a saint doesn't mean that person was "physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight" or whatever.
Exactly!  Couldn't have said it better. I'm amazed that no one else could answer this though.

So now, since we got the point across that they had a special purpose with God and that they weren't always morally straight, then why bring up events of killing and shortcomings of a saint, as if they're justified?  What's the purpose of talking about St. Theodosia killing an iconoclast?  Does that mean that because a saint did it, it makes it right?

I'm trying to challenge the reason behind those who bring up saints that did wrong things as if they're right. It worries me if that's really what they're venerated for.  Might as well make justifications for collateral damage in wars because the old testament seems to have allowed it as a military side-product.
 

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Amazing how some people seem to think they know what's best for the Georgian nation more than the much-loved Patriarch of Georgia...
 

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minasoliman said:
Then I'd like to see them come out and condemn the violence that happened. 
As would I. 

minasoliman said:
I'd like to see some of those priests provide for the well-being of those injured and killed. 
In what way?  Unless they are doctors or nurses, what could they provide?  Spiritual support?  Doubtful they would want to even see the priest.

minasoliman said:
A father may have not told his son to go and throw stones, but when a son goes and throws stones, the father is still responsible.
In no way is your statement even remotely accurate.  Grown men are responsible for themselves.  If they were of school age, they should be home.
 

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ialmisry said:
augustin717 said:
Shanghaiski said:
minasoliman said:
Shanghaiski said:
minasoliman said:
88Devin12 said:
augustin717 said:
you'd, one thinks, know that to be part of  mob no extraordinary amount of guts is required. more guts were required for the few gay people to walk around surrounded by that mob.
I'm referring to Patriarch Ilia and other figures like the mayor of Moscow who have come out against gay rallies. They have more guts than the chickens over in Western Europe.
In Georgia?  Is Georgia really that liberal for the patriarch to show "bravery" in taking a stand?  Isn't Orthodox Christianity the state sponsored religion?

Devin, yes, here in the US and other liberal countries, it takes guts standing against homosexuality.  But in Georgia where being Orthodox Christian is the norm, even the patriarch does not require guts.  Guts would be standing against the status quo in a society.
Apparently in Georgia, the Church is not supported by the state--at the insistence of the Catholicos Patriarch. The patriarch is standing against the leaders of the state, who are pandering to Europe.
Does that lessen my argument somehow?  Is the Church a minority?  Is the Church a weak body in the country?
And should the Church of Georgia sanction gay pride parades? Shall it allow the state to destroy its traditional culture (that is, communism all over again)?

People were hurt. That was unfortunate, and possibly wrong (do we know the actual circumstances? What is the evidence? Do we condemn based off news reports and hearsay?).

This isn't to comment on this case, but when Christians are confronted by blasphemy, even the response of the holy is not bashful.

Arius uttered blasphemy. St. Nicholas smacked him. Men punished St. Nicholas and protected Arius. But God Himself restored St. Nicholas to his office as one not worthy of condemnation because Arius was deserving of rebuke.
What r u smoking? Where is the blasphemy? Where did anybody ask the patriarch's blessing for a gay parade? The Church, as in hierarchy, ought, more fittingly, not intervene in this. Really.
Why not?
Because people have, foolishly in my opinion, decided the Church should have no influence on politics and as a result, be completely hands off.  What they fail to understand is, as a Christian we are called to live every aspect of our life in that capacity, including politics.
 

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NightOwl said:
Amazing how some people seem to think they know what's best for the Georgian nation more than the much-loved Patriarch of Georgia...
Good point.
 

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Kerdy said:
minasoliman said:
Then I'd like to see them come out and condemn the violence that happened. 
As would I. 

minasoliman said:
I'd like to see some of those priests provide for the well-being of those injured and killed. 
In what way?  Unless they are doctors or nurses, what could they provide?  Spiritual support?  Doubtful they would want to even see the priest.

minasoliman said:
A father may have not told his son to go and throw stones, but when a son goes and throws stones, the father is still responsible.
In no way is your statement even remotely accurate.  Grown men are responsible for themselves.  If they were of school age, they should be home.
In some financial way.  If they were implicated in the stone throwing and the violence, they have to pay.

Well, then, if they are grown men, excommunicate them until they repent.  This way, the Church would be clear they will not tolerate anyone who in walking with the priests and bishops in the protests become violent.

But if they're silent, then they are responsible for their actions based on their silence.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Shanghaiski said:
As far as I know, most of the demonstrators against it were not violent, nor did His Holiness and Beatitude advocate violence.
Some proofs?

Shanghaiski said:
People were hurt. That was unfortunate, and possibly wrong
You have just gained another one level in lack of conscience.
Thanks. God bless you, too.
 

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minasoliman said:
In some financial way.  If they were implicated in the stone throwing and the violence, they have to pay.
The parents?  No.  People are responsible for their own actions when they are adults.  If they were not adults, the parents are only responsible when it is proven they were in some way involved in the child doing the wrong action.  If I have a teenage son who is busted for selling drugs, I don’t go to jail unless I put him up to it.  Same thing.

minasoliman said:
Well, then, if they are grown men, excommunicate them until they repent.  This way, the Church would be clear they will not tolerate anyone who in walking with the priests and bishops in the protests become violent.
This has nothing to do with what I addressed and has nothing to do with us.  We do not dictate Church policy.  I leave that to those in proper position.

minasoliman said:
But if they're silent, then they are responsible for their actions based on their silence.
No.  Apathy does not always equal guilt.  Silence does not always equal apathy.  And as someone has already pointed out, we don’t have the full story.  What is the background/history?  What events lead up to this?  Are the clips of footage we are able to see ALL of the video or is there something important we are missing?  We don’t have all the answers which is why I stated previously if the protestors initiated the violence they are wrong.

We also are all very well aware of mob mentality.  When a few get stupid, others who are emotionally charged follow their lead.  Most likely, there was only a small percentage of violent protestors.  This does not make it right, but without all of the information, we only guess.  

This is a single isolated event.  If Orthodox Christians the world over were attacking people, it would be different, but they are not.

This has nothing to do with what I addressed and has nothing to do with us.  We do not dictate Church policy.

minasoliman said:
But if they're silent, then they are responsible for their actions based on their silence.
No.  Apathy does not always equal guilt.  
 

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The parents?  No.  People are responsible for their own actions when they are adults.  If they were not adults, the parents are only responsible when it is proven they were in some way involved in the child doing the wrong action.  If I have a teenage son who is busted for selling drugs, I don’t go to jail unless I put him up to it.  Same thing.
I said if it's been shown the priests were implicit in this, then yes, they should provide.

This has nothing to do with what I addressed and has nothing to do with us.  We do not dictate Church policy.  I leave that to those in proper position.
I disagree.  It has everything to do with what you addressed.  If they are grown men, which I doubt by the way they act and what they said, then the Church should be quick to carry the big stick.  In fact, according to the articles here, many of the protesters have said they were inspired by Patriarch Ilia to go and protest.  Already, his name is invoked in the violence.  If Patriarch Ilia is silent, how does this make him look like?

Grown men wouldn't hide behind the patriarch's name in their violent actions.  Grown men would take responsibility for their own actions.  Because they do this in the name of their Church and their culture, the Church must act.


And let's not ignore this because it's an isolated incident.  What makes us different and responsible Christians is that we should be quick to condemn even isolated incidents. 
 

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minasoliman said:
I said if it's been shown the priests were implicit in this, then yes, they should provide.
I misunderstood.  If the priests promoted violence, this would be a problem, depending on the full story.

minasoliman said:
I disagree.  It has everything to do with what you addressed.  If they are grown men, which I doubt by the way they act and what they said, then the Church should be quick to carry the big stick.  In fact, according to the articles here, many of the protesters have said they were inspired by Patriarch Ilia to go and protest.  Already, his name is invoked in the violence.  If Patriarch Ilia is silent, how does this make him look like?
Of course they were inspired to protest, but this does not mean they were asked to hurt anyone.  I doubt his name invokes violence.  More likely people who were predisposed to be violent used this as an excuse.  He should make a statement of some sort, but I think we should give him a little more time to prepare the proper statement.  After all, whatever he says will be scrutinized.  I imagine he is already working on a response.

minasoliman said:
Grown men wouldn't hide behind the patriarch's name in their violent actions.  Grown men would take responsibility for their own actions.  Because they do this in the name of their Church and their culture, the Church must act.
Sure they do.  History proves different.  No one wants to be responsible for their own actions any longer.  Again, I do not know the complete history regarding this situation so I can’t get into that much detail.  What would you like to see as the Church’s response?

minasoliman said:
And let's not ignore this because it's an isolated incident.  What makes us different and responsible Christians is that we should be quick to condemn even isolated incidents. 
I didn’t say we shouldn’t.  My point was this is not the norm so over reacting is as bad as not reacting. 


 

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Kerdy said:
minasoliman said:
I said if it's been shown the priests were implicit in this, then yes, they should provide.
I misunderstood.  If the priests promoted violence, this would be a problem, depending on the full story.

minasoliman said:
I disagree.  It has everything to do with what you addressed.  If they are grown men, which I doubt by the way they act and what they said, then the Church should be quick to carry the big stick.  In fact, according to the articles here, many of the protesters have said they were inspired by Patriarch Ilia to go and protest.  Already, his name is invoked in the violence.  If Patriarch Ilia is silent, how does this make him look like?
Of course they were inspired to protest, but this does not mean they were asked to hurt anyone.  I doubt his name invokes violence.  More likely people who were predisposed to be violent used this as an excuse.  He should make a statement of some sort, but I think we should give him a little more time to prepare the proper statement.  After all, whatever he says will be scrutinized.  I imagine he is already working on a response.

minasoliman said:
Grown men wouldn't hide behind the patriarch's name in their violent actions.  Grown men would take responsibility for their own actions.  Because they do this in the name of their Church and their culture, the Church must act.
Sure they do.  History proves different.  No one wants to be responsible for their own actions any longer.  Again, I do not know the complete history regarding this situation so I can’t get into that much detail.  What would you like to see as the Church’s response?

minasoliman said:
And let's not ignore this because it's an isolated incident.  What makes us different and responsible Christians is that we should be quick to condemn even isolated incidents. 
I didn’t say we shouldn’t.  My point was this is not the norm so over reacting is as bad as not reacting. 
Fair enough...

If this is the first time violent protests took place after invoking the good name of the patriarch, the Church can perhaps issue a warning that anyone who would do this again would be excommunicated. Any priest who participated in the violence should be deposed.  These reports of carrying nettles by the priests sends a bad message to the protesters, and it's inexcusable.

The church can continue to make clear that homosexuality is unacceptable, against church morals and Georgian values and culture. The Church should also reiterate its stand to excommunicate anyone who thinks homosexuality is acceptable and moral behavior. But the violent reactions of Orthodox Christians go against the commission of the gospel to spread peace, and wherever peace is rejected, let it return to you. Where Christians incite violence and not peace is inexcusable. The church should encourage that those responsible for the damage of properties and injuries of people should take responsibility and recompensate for them.  Only then would it be acceptable for proper penance to bring back communicants to the Church.

I think this message would serve the Church well and fairly.
 

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Kerdy said:
No.  Apathy does not always equal guilt.  Silence does not always equal apathy.  And as someone has already pointed out, we don’t have the full story.  What is the background/history?  What events lead up to this?  Are the clips of footage we are able to see ALL of the video or is there something important we are missing?  We don’t have all the answers which is why I stated previously if the protestors initiated the violence they are wrong.

We also are all very well aware of mob mentality.  When a few get stupid, others who are emotionally charged follow their lead.  Most likely, there was only a small percentage of violent protestors.  This does not make it right, but without all of the information, we only guess. 

This is a single isolated event.  If Orthodox Christians the world over were attacking people, it would be different, but they are not.
 

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Some orthodox people wary too much about my people's "unorthodox" behavior. Save yourself energy for the future and I will tell you one thing: every time this type of parade will be planned it will meet the same fate. In fact, they, power much higher above, have tried to conduct such parades several times before (at least two times that I know of) and each time these gathering collapsed. We, Georgians, might be cruel, uneducated and barbarian orthodox people but how come those clever and humane beings failed to see that if this thing failed several times before it would fail again? They know it but they persevere. Why?

For the records, no gay is persecuted in Georgia. Gays have lived there long time and the had much gayer life when they wanted. They have gay clubs and no one has exploded those. We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this. Gay people must see it, that every time their attempt to expose their parades in open it will be met by opposition from Georgian people.

After all if you all say gay people should have right to do this and that why straight Georgian's, which is perhaps over 99 %, should not have their rights defended? We, over 99 %, don't want such parades and for the sake of democracy, if such a thing really exists in nature, respect our decision. We on the other hand promise that as it was before we are not going to break in their houses or clubs and bit them. Just do it in private.

BTW below is a youtube link to one of those gay pride parades in 2012 (under the name of "say no to homophobia") from last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK2qjGprS10
 

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ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
 

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ativan said:
And little bit of violence will help this.
"In the End Days a man will be saved by love, humbleness and kindness. Kindness will open the gates of Heaven; humbleness will lead into the Heaven; a man, whose heart is filled with love, will see the God." - St. Gabriel of Mtskheta

Sorry, I don't see any love, humbleness, or kindness in the video you posted or in the actions of the protesters.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
No.  Apathy does not always equal guilt.  Silence does not always equal apathy.  And as someone has already pointed out, we don’t have the full story.  What is the background/history?  What events lead up to this?  Are the clips of footage we are able to see ALL of the video or is there something important we are missing?  We don’t have all the answers which is why I stated previously if the protestors initiated the violence they are wrong.

We also are all very well aware of mob mentality.  When a few get stupid, others who are emotionally charged follow their lead.  Most likely, there was only a small percentage of violent protestors.  This does not make it right, but without all of the information, we only guess. 

This is a single isolated event.  If Orthodox Christians the world over were attacking people, it would be different, but they are not.
I could post meaningless photos as well in response posts as if they provided some sort of impact, but prefer to conduct myself in a mature manner.
 

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NicholasMyra said:
ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
+1

It's people like these that should be excommunicated.
 

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minasoliman said:
NicholasMyra said:
ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
+1

It's people like these that should be excommunicated.
along with people in active homosexual relationships and heterosexuals in non-marital sexual relationships.
 

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NicholasMyra said:
ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
Incarnated Son of God Himself cleansed the Temple of money changers. God the Father Himself destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. I don't think any of us loves human being more then Creator Himself does.

Saint king of Georgia David the builder cleansed the Church of gay priests and likes and he was very cruel against them. He did it in the name of Christ. We can't even come closer to his sainthood.

There's a lot of misrepresentation of Orthodoxy going on today. Christian first of all is supposed to be a solider of Christ.
 

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Andrew21091 said:
ativan said:
And little bit of violence will help this.
"In the End Days a man will be saved by love, humbleness and kindness. Kindness will open the gates of Heaven; humbleness will lead into the Heaven; a man, whose heart is filled with love, will see the God." - St. Gabriel of Mtskheta

Sorry, I don't see any love, humbleness, or kindness in the video you posted or in the actions of the protesters.
Father Gabriel said and thought many other things that might come as a surprise to you. Believe or not he also said: don't turn your the other chick and fight against those who slap you on one side.

Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
 

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ativan said:
Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
ativan said:
Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.
You know, sarcasm without appropriate, well thought out, intelligent responses is starting to lean me in the direction of “it may not have been as bad as you pretend”.  Keep up the good work.
 

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ativan said:
NicholasMyra said:
ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
Incarnated Son of God Himself cleansed the Temple of money changers. God the Father Himself destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. I don't think any of us loves human being more then Creator Himself does.

Saint king of Georgia David the builder cleansed the Church of gay priests and likes and he was very cruel against them. He did it in the name of Christ. We can't even come closer to his sainthood.

There's a lot of misrepresentation of Orthodoxy going on today. Christian first of all is supposed to be a solider of Christ.
ativan said:
Andrew21091 said:
ativan said:
And little bit of violence will help this.
"In the End Days a man will be saved by love, humbleness and kindness. Kindness will open the gates of Heaven; humbleness will lead into the Heaven; a man, whose heart is filled with love, will see the God." - St. Gabriel of Mtskheta

Sorry, I don't see any love, humbleness, or kindness in the video you posted or in the actions of the protesters.
Father Gabriel said and thought many other things that might come as a surprise to you. Believe or not he also said: don't turn your the other chick and fight against those who slap you on one side.

Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
You bring up some interesting points.
 

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ativan said:
There's a lot of misrepresentation of Orthodoxy going on today. Christian first of all is supposed to be a solider of Christ.
Sure, but being a soldier of Christ means entering into spiritual warfare against the devil and the passions. It does not mean using physical violence, especially when there's absolutely no need for it. The sword of the Christian is the Jesus Prayer, as the prayers for tonsuring a monk makes very clear.
 

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Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
ativan said:
Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.
You know, sarcasm without appropriate, well thought out, intelligent responses is starting to lean me in the direction of “it may not have been as bad as you pretend”.  Keep up the good work.
Have you watched the videos?
 

minasoliman

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88Devin12 said:
minasoliman said:
NicholasMyra said:
ativan said:
We just don't want our next generation fall into that sin, that's all. And little bit of violence will help this.
Will you at least stop doing it in the name of Christ? Maybe there is a local Georgian tribal war deity who would be a better substitute.
+1

It's people like these that should be excommunicated.
along with people in active homosexual relationships and heterosexuals in non-marital sexual relationships.
I imagine the Church already excommunicated those if they already have people who religiously believe violence is the answer to wipe them off.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
ativan said:
Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.
You know, sarcasm without appropriate, well thought out, intelligent responses is starting to lean me in the direction of “it may not have been as bad as you pretend”.  Keep up the good work.
Have you watched the videos?
Better than you have read my posts.

Or do you mean the one with a bunch of priests running from the violence?
 

Kerdy

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scamandrius said:
Orthodox11 said:
Good for you!  You know how to use photoshop!
What’s humorous is how an old man with a chair is compared to up-armored assault vehicles, tanks, men with body armor and military weapons and attack helicopters.  It’s overboard absurdity.
 

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Kerdy said:
What’s humorous is how an old man with a chair is compared to up-armored assault vehicles, tanks, men with body armor and military weapons and attack helicopters.  It’s overboard absurdity.
There's a video of that old man using that chair to smash the windscreen of a bus carrying protesters. Of course it's overboard, that's the point.
 

Kerdy

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Orthodox11 said:
Kerdy said:
What’s humorous is how an old man with a chair is compared to up-armored assault vehicles, tanks, men with body armor and military weapons and attack helicopters.  It’s overboard absurdity.
There's a video of that old man using that chair to smash the windscreen of a bus carrying protesters. Of course it's overboard, that's the point.
If he was going after the protesters and the protesters are the "bad guys", what’s the problem?

But let me get this right.  He smashes out a windshield and gets turned into a warmonger.  Border patrol agents get rocks hurled at them by the dozen, getting hit in the head, killed, and they shoot one person attempting to enter the country illegally as a result and the border patrol agents are evil.  I fail to see how the double standard actually works.

What am I missing?
 

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Kerdy said:
If he was going after the protesters and the protesters are the "bad guys", whats the problem?
The anti-homophobia protesters. Yes, they are the "bad guys" in so far as they're promoting sin. The problem is the unnecessary use of violence.

Kerdy said:
But let me get this right.  He smashes out a windshield and gets turned into a warmonger.  Border patrol agents get rocks hurled at them by the dozen, getting hit in the head, killed, and they shoot one person attempting to enter the country illegally as a result and the border patrol agents are evil.  I fail to see how the double standard actually works.
I don't know, I don't think I've ever mentioned border patrol agents.
 

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Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
ativan said:
Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?
Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.
You know, sarcasm without appropriate, well thought out, intelligent responses is starting to lean me in the direction of “it may not have been as bad as you pretend”.  Keep up the good work.
Have you watched the videos?
Better than you have read my posts.

Or do you mean the one with a bunch of priests running from the violence?
IMO they were running to the buses.
 

Kerdy

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Orthodox11 said:
Kerdy said:
If he was going after the protesters and the protesters are the "bad guys", whats the problem?
The anti-homophobia protesters. Yes, they are the "bad guys" in so far as they're promoting sin. The problem is the unnecessary use of violence.

Kerdy said:
But let me get this right.  He smashes out a windshield and gets turned into a warmonger.  Border patrol agents get rocks hurled at them by the dozen, getting hit in the head, killed, and they shoot one person attempting to enter the country illegally as a result and the border patrol agents are evil.  I fail to see how the double standard actually works.
I don't know, I don't think I've ever mentioned border patrol agents.
So, he attacked the protesters you say are bad and he is vilified.  I am confused.  Should he not be honored?

You didn’t, just making a comparison to show the hypocrisy.
 
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