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Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine

Iconodule

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I'm not sure if this interview with Met. Anthony of the UOCofUSA was already discussed, but anyway it's worth a look:

https://ukrainian.voanews.com/a/4535112.html

It is, of course, in Ukrainian but Google translate helps. The most interesting part, for me, is this:

The procedure is very complicated.  In most cases, when the country is given autocephaly, there is only one church.  Therefore, the question arises of whom to deliver the tomos to.  This question must be taken very seriously.  There are people who can not get it, where it would not be accepted by most believers.  Most likely, an All-Ukrainian Council will be gathered from representatives of all churches in Ukraine.  And at this Cathedral will be elected the patriarch.  This is one of the options for development.  Then Constantinople will have to recognize this leader of the church and the tomos will be given to him.  Under no circumstances will the tomos be given to the government.  This is not even the case.  There are other options for the development of events, but I can not talk about it now ... 

So, if he's right, then the autocephaly process could be messier and more protracted and the EP is not likely to grant the tomos to any existing organization.
 

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Iconodule said:
The procedure is very complicated.  In most cases, when the country is given autocephaly, there is only one church.  Therefore, the question arises of whom to deliver the tomos to.  This question must be taken very seriously.  There are people who can not get it, where it would not be accepted by most believers.  Most likely, an All-Ukrainian Council will be gathered from representatives of all churches in Ukraine.  And at this Cathedral will be elected the patriarch.  This is one of the options for development.  Then Constantinople will have to recognize this leader of the church and the tomos will be given to him.  Under no circumstances will the tomos be given to the government.  This is not even the case.  There are other options for the development of events, but I can not talk about it now ... 
May God grant this.
 

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Iconodule said:
"Back in the early 14th century, when the Kiev see was moved without the canonical permission of the Mother-Church to Moscow"

I'm going to repeat a question, which the Ukrainian nationalists here have failed to answer:

Do you know what Kiev was like in the early 14th century? Do you think it would be reasonable to require the Metropolitan of Kiev to remain in a city that had been razed to the ground and was now a devastated backwater subject to frequent Tatar raids and banditry? (And, by the way, the Metropolitan who made this move was St. Maximus, who was a Roman appointed by Constantinople.)

Irene, Cossack, Liza, what do you say?
What kind of a Orthodox hierarch deserts his see, his clergy, monks and all the people of his flock?  Thank God the other bishops in Ukraine, the clergy and monks did not follow his example.
 

Iconodule

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IreneOlinyk said:
Iconodule said:
"Back in the early 14th century, when the Kiev see was moved without the canonical permission of the Mother-Church to Moscow"

I'm going to repeat a question, which the Ukrainian nationalists here have failed to answer:

Do you know what Kiev was like in the early 14th century? Do you think it would be reasonable to require the Metropolitan of Kiev to remain in a city that had been razed to the ground and was now a devastated backwater subject to frequent Tatar raids and banditry? (And, by the way, the Metropolitan who made this move was St. Maximus, who was a Roman appointed by Constantinople.)

Irene, Cossack, Liza, what do you say?
What kind of a Orthodox hierarch deserts his see, his clergy, monks and all the people of his flock?  Thank God the other bishops in Ukraine, the clergy and monks did not follow his example.
What flock? What see? The place was depopulated. When the Mongols sacked Kiev in 1240 they massacred almost the entire population and destroyed almost everything. After that, they kept returning for more raids. Do you know why the monks lived in caves?

After St Maximus moved north, Constantinople set up another metropolis, but it was in Halych, not Kiev. Why do you think that is? Were they abandoning the flock too?
 

Iconodule

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Right, the point about the Patriarchate of Antioch was brought up before, which Irene and company continue to ignore. Are you going to berate the Patriarchs of Antioch for residing in Damascus too?
 

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IreneOlinyk said:
Iconodule said:
"Back in the early 14th century, when the Kiev see was moved without the canonical permission of the Mother-Church to Moscow"

I'm going to repeat a question, which the Ukrainian nationalists here have failed to answer:

Do you know what Kiev was like in the early 14th century? Do you think it would be reasonable to require the Metropolitan of Kiev to remain in a city that had been razed to the ground and was now a devastated backwater subject to frequent Tatar raids and banditry? (And, by the way, the Metropolitan who made this move was St. Maximus, who was a Roman appointed by Constantinople.)

Irene, Cossack, Liza, what do you say?
What kind of a Orthodox hierarch deserts his see, his clergy, monks and all the people of his flock?  Thank God the other bishops in Ukraine, the clergy and monks did not follow his example.
Man oh man, wait till you meet St. Paul. That guy abandoned Greece and died in Rome.
 

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Asteriktos said:
Mor Ephrem said:
http://orthochristian.com/115524.html

Are the italicized comments, attributed to the EP, accurately translated?
+1 ???
I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to answer this question and, if the translation is inaccurate, provide an accurate translation.  His Holiness makes a few arguably heretical comments in the passage quoted in the article I cited.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Asteriktos said:
Mor Ephrem said:
http://orthochristian.com/115524.html

Are the italicized comments, attributed to the EP, accurately translated?
+1 ???
I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to answer this question and, if the translation is inaccurate, provide an accurate translation.  His Holiness makes a few arguably heretical comments in the passage quoted in the article I cited.
Where is the document in the original language though? The link provided in the lengthy article only links to a preexisting English translation.
 

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  • People feel sorry for the Ecumenical Patriarchate, like one would for his own father who everyone knows is “on the wane”, but nevertheless still demands obedience, even though his decisions are less than sound. However he is the only one who doesn’t seem to know that, and so no one knows what to do.
  • People feel sorry for the Ecumenical Patriarchate, because he is living in nostalgia of past grandeur amidst the harsh reality of modern Turkey.
:(
 

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My favorites quotes are:

“The Ecumenical Patriarchate is, for Orthodoxy, a leaven “which leavens the whole lump” (cf. Gal. 5.9) of the Church and of history... As time unfolds, we become conscious of the fact that something magnificent is taking place, something that can only be reckoned a divine gift since our very existence is grafted onto the culture of the Mother Church, while all things are transformed and conceived as strange; the heavens are opened, new life emerges, and our existence welcomes the good change of the right hand of the Almighty.”

“At times, we confront trials and temptations precisely because some people falsely believe that they can love the Orthodox Church, but not the Ecumenical Patriarchate, forgetting that it incarnates the authentic ecclesiastical ethos of Orthodoxy. “In the beginning was the Word . . . in him was life, and the life was the light of men.” (John 1.1,4) The beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Ecumenical Patriarchate; “in this is life, and the life is the light of the Churches.” The late Metropolitan Kyrillos of Gortyna and Arcadia, a beloved Hierarch of the Mother Church and personal friend, was right to underline that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.”

And:

“The Ecumenical Patriarchate bears the responsibility of setting matters in ecclesiastical and canonical order because it alone has the canonical privilege as well as the prayer and blessing of the Church and the Ecumenical Councils to carry out this supreme and exceptional duty as a nurturing Mother and birth-giver of Churches. If the Ecumenical Patriarchate denies its responsibility and removes itself from the inter-Orthodox scene, then the local Churches will proceed “as sheep without a shepherd” (Matt. 9.36), expending their energy in ecclesiastical initiatives that conflate the humility of faith and the arrogance of power.”

http://orthochristian.com/115524.html


The UOC-MP has responded:

“It's hard to believe that a church hierarchy respecting himself could have uttered this text, which is illiterate from all standpoints, including the canonical, historical, and even literary one.”

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=14446



 

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The statements are frankly insane. If even half of them are correctly translated then we've got a problem.
 

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St. Mark actually said something like that? How depressing.
 

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@Volnutt

I think RaphaCam is using the image of Saint Mark to contradict the statement that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.”
 

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PJ26 said:
@Volnutt

I think RaphaCam is using the image of Saint Mark to contradict the statement that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.”
It's just Constantinople style Papism (not using as slur) at this point
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Asteriktos said:
Mor Ephrem said:
http://orthochristian.com/115524.html

Are the italicized comments, attributed to the EP, accurately translated?
+1 ???
I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to answer this question and, if the translation is inaccurate, provide an accurate translation.  His Holiness makes a few arguably heretical comments in the passage quoted in the article I cited.
I sure hope it is a misqoute. It is rare indeed to see this degree of heresy.
 

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PJ26 said:
@Volnutt

I think RaphaCam is using the image of Saint Mark to contradict the statement that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.”
Yes. These three holy hierarchs: Mark of Ephesus, Athanasius of Alexandria and Euthymius of Sardis, championed the Orthodox faith when Constantinople was Heterodox.
 

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RaphaCam said:
PJ26 said:
@Volnutt

I think RaphaCam is using the image of Saint Mark to contradict the statement that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.”
Yes. These three holy hierarchs: Mark of Ephesus, Athanasius of Alexandria and Euthymius of Sardis, championed the Orthodox faith when Constantinople was Heterodox.
Oh, ok. My mistake :)
 

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  • People feel sorry for the Ecumenical Patriarchate, like one would for his own father who everyone knows is “on the wane”, but nevertheless still demands obedience, even though his decisions are less than sound. However he is the only one who doesn’t seem to know that, and so no one knows what to do.
  • People feel sorry for the Ecumenical Patriarchate, because he is living in nostalgia of past grandeur amidst the harsh reality of modern Turkey.
I read that this morning and I still don't know what she's going on about.

I have seen plenty, and I mean *plenty,* of criticism directed at the EP, and much of it isn't just critical, but also very disrespectful (including, imo, her article, not to mention some of the comments I've read here...).
 

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The EP is claiming to be the indispensable center and foundation of Orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians naturally find such language alarming. If you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what else we can say.
 

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Iconodule said:
The EP is claiming to be the indispensable center and foundation of Orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians naturally find such language alarming. If you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what else we can say.
“Frankly insane” just about summed it up for me.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
The EP is claiming to be the indispensable center and foundation of Orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians naturally find such language alarming. If you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what else we can say.
Frankly insane” just about summed it up for me.
With the interesting double entendre that we had a big problem with Franks making such claims in a distant past.
 

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RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
The EP is claiming to be the indispensable center and foundation of Orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians naturally find such language alarming. If you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what else we can say.
Frankly insane” just about summed it up for me.
With the interesting double entendre that we had a big problem with Franks making such claims in a distant past.
Don’t go Alphing on me now...
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Asteriktos said:
Mor Ephrem said:
http://orthochristian.com/115524.html

Are the italicized comments, attributed to the EP, accurately translated?
+1 ???
I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to answer this question and, if the translation is inaccurate, provide an accurate translation.  His Holiness makes a few arguably heretical comments in the passage quoted in the article I cited.
I do not know who translated the speech. However, if you have time, can you highlight the “Frankly insane” parts from
https://www.uocofusa.org/news_180901_1.html, so that I can go back to it with that in mind using Ctr-C and Ctr-F.
For some reason I keep dozing off every time I try to read it.

 

Iconodule

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Just paste into your search box, "The beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Ecumenical Patriarchate."

In most circumstances I would be tempted to read these words as harmless rhetorical flourish, much like the Patriarchs of Alexandria calling themselves "Father of Fathers, Pastor of Pastors, Prelate of Prelates, the Thirteenth of the Apostles and Judge of the Universe." And maybe, maybe that is all that was meant.

But in the context of the intervention in Ukraine, and other actions and statements issuing from the Phanar (e.g. First Without Equals) it seems like something more.
 

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Iconodule said:
Just paste into your search box, "The beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Ecumenical Patriarchate."

In most circumstances I would be tempted to read these words as harmless rhetorical flourish, much like the Patriarchs of Alexandria calling themselves "Father of Fathers, Pastor of Pastors, Prelate of Prelates, the Thirteenth of the Apostles and Judge of the Universe." And maybe, maybe that is all that was meant.

But in the context of the intervention in Ukraine, and other actions and statements issuing from the Phanar (e.g. First Without Equals) it seems like something more.
Thanks, that short paragraph seems nonsensical to me.

 

Iconodule

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Fr. George, what do you make of it?
 

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ICXCNIKA said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Asteriktos said:
Mor Ephrem said:
http://orthochristian.com/115524.html

Are the italicized comments, attributed to the EP, accurately translated?
+1 ???
I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to answer this question and, if the translation is inaccurate, provide an accurate translation.  His Holiness makes a few arguably heretical comments in the passage quoted in the article I cited.
I sure hope it is a misqoute. It is rare indeed to see this degree of heresy.
As time unfolds
has the Phanar caught development of doctrine?
 

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IreneOlinyk said:
PJ26 said:
The above article from Interfax has been updated and now additionally states:

“...The patriarch cast doubt on the canonicity of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church's subordination to the Moscow Patriarchate.

"Already from the early 14th century, when the see of the Kievan Metropolis was moved without the canonical permission of the Mother Church to Moscow, there have been tireless efforts on the part of our Kievan brothers for independence from ecclesiastical control by the Moscow center.

"Indeed, the obstinacy of the Patriarchate of Moscow was instrumental in occasionally creating repeated mergers and restorations of ecclesiastical eparchies, uncanonical elections of bishops as well as schisms, which still afflict the pious Ukrainian people.

"The Tome proclaiming Moscow as a Patriarchate does not include the region of today's Metropolis of Kiev in the jurisdiction of Moscow. Moreover, after the well-known manner of proclamation of Moscow as a Patriarchate by Ecumenical Patriarch Jeremiah II (Tranos), the canonical dependence of Kiev to the Mother Church of Constantinople remained constant and uninterrupted," Patriarch Bartholomew said.

The text of his speech was published on the website of the (Patriarchate of Constantinople's) Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA.

Moscow Patriarchate representatives have not yet commented on the patriarch's speech.”

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=14441
The Ecumenical Patriarchate has been consistent in stating that it never recognised the annexation of the Metropolitanate of Kyiv in 1686 by Moscow.  In the modern era this fact was clearly stated in the 1926 Tomos granting autocephaly to the Orthodox Church  of Poland.

This was stated in the tomos concerning autocephaly that the Mother-Church gave to the Polish church: our see did not recognize the separation of the Kiev metropolitanate and the Orthodox churches of Lithuania and Poland that were dependent upon it and their joining to the Moscow church, which was carried out contrary to the canons and the rights of the Kiev metropolitanate—which bore the title exarch of the Ecumenical See--were not observed," Patriarch Bartholomew said. 
https://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/180702a.html
Original Russian:
http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/?act=news&id=131528
Unfortunately, the Phanar lies, and overextended itself in that Tomos that it lacked canonical authority to issue.

The Kiev metropolitinate was translated to Vladimir then Moscow in the 14th century, a fact Constantinople recognized by Tomos in 1354.
 

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Iconodule said:
The EP is claiming to be the indispensable center and foundation of Orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians naturally find such language alarming. If you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what else we can say.
This thread isn't unique. I've been lurking this forum for years, and I've seen plenty of vile comments aimed at His All-Holiness in that time.

If you want to disagree with the EP, so be it; but rude and irreverent comments (such as calling the Ecumenical Throne a 'relic,' or even worse, a 'corpse') are totally unnecessary.
 

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Arzelle said:
This thread isn't unique. I've been lurking this forum for years, and I've seen plenty of vile comments aimed at His All-Holiness in that time.

If you want to disagree with the EP, so be it; but rude and irreverent comments (such as calling the Ecumenical Throne a 'relic,' or even worse, a 'corpse') are totally unnecessary.
We should avoid being rude and irreverent. As Fr. George pointed out, one must respect the continued survival of the church in Turkey under such hostile conditions. The criticisms have to do with the EP's continuous claims of a global authority. "Corpse" is uncalled for and simply false. As for "relic," though, what else do you call an institution that acts as if it still operates from the center of a long dead empire?

To the Church of Constantinople, as an ancient body of long-suffering Christians, we owe reverence and respect. But this other mantle of Ecumenical Patriarchate is indeed a relic.

To be fair, the EP is not the only Orthodox Christian body holding on to vestiges of a dead empire. Similar criticism can be made of the Moscow Patriarchate. It's hard not to notice that the MP has married itself to the ambitions and ideology of the Russian state. To be honest I don't like having to agree with them in these ecclesial politics because I find so much distasteful about them. However, I've never seen a representative of the MP claim that the Moscow Patriarchate is a sine qua non of Orthodoxy. As far as I can tell, even the partisans of the Third Rome theory would not say "the beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Moscow Patriarchate" or "without the Moscow Patriarchate there is no Orthodoxy".
 

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Iconodule said:
Arzelle said:
This thread isn't unique. I've been lurking this forum for years, and I've seen plenty of vile comments aimed at His All-Holiness in that time.

If you want to disagree with the EP, so be it; but rude and irreverent comments (such as calling the Ecumenical Throne a 'relic,' or even worse, a 'corpse') are totally unnecessary.
We should avoid being rude and irreverent. As Fr. George pointed out, one must respect the continued survival of the church in Turkey under such hostile conditions. The criticisms have to do with the EP's continuous claims of a global authority. "Corpse" is uncalled for and simply false. As for "relic," though, what else do you call an institution that acts as if it still operates from the center of a long dead empire?

To the Church of Constantinople, as an ancient body of long-suffering Christians, we owe reverence and respect. But this other mantle of Ecumenical Patriarchate is indeed a relic.

To be fair, the EP is not the only Orthodox Christian body holding on to vestiges of a dead empire. Similar criticism can be made of the Moscow Patriarchate. It's hard not to notice that the MP has married itself to the ambitions and ideology of the Russian state. To be honest I don't like having to agree with them in these ecclesial politics because I find so much distasteful about them. However, I've never seen a representative of the MP claim that the Moscow Patriarchate is a sine qua non of Orthodoxy. As far as I can tell, even the partisans of the Third Rome theory would not say "the beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Moscow Patriarchate" or "without the Moscow Patriarchate there is no Orthodoxy".
+1
 

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In hindsight, I would change my description to corpse-like.
 

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From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Autocephalous churches – 224 million
Russian Orthodox Church – 150 million
Romanian Orthodox Church – 23 million
Church of Greece – 15 million
Serbian Orthodox Church – 11.5 million
Bulgarian Orthodox Church – 10 million
Georgian Orthodox Church – 3.5 million
Greek Orthodox Church of Constantinople – 3.5 million
Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch – 2.5 million
Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria – 1.5 million
Orthodox Church in America – 0.08 million
Polish Orthodox Church – 1 million
Albanian Orthodox Church – 0.8 million
Church of Cyprus – 0.7 million
Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem – 0.14 million
Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church – 0.07 million
Autonomous churches – 13 million
Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) – 7.2 million[198]
Moldovan Orthodox Church – 3.2 million
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia – 1.25 million
Metropolitan Church of Bessarabia – 0.62 million
Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric – 0.34 million[citation needed]
Estonian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) – 0.3 million
Finnish Orthodox Church – 0.08 million
Chinese Orthodox Church – 0.03 million
Japanese Orthodox Church – 0.02 million
Latvian Orthodox Church – 0.02 million
Non-universally recognized churches – 27 million
Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Kyiv Patriarchate) – 19.5 million[198]
Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church – 0.8 million
Belarusian Autocephalous Orthodox Church – 2.4 million
Macedonian Orthodox Church – 2 million
Orthodox Church of Greece (Holy Synod in Resistance) – 0.75 million
Old Calendarist Romanian Orthodox Church – 0.50 million
Old Calendar Bulgarian Orthodox Church – 0.45 million
Orthodox Church in Italy – 0.12 million
Montenegrin Orthodox Church – 0.05 million
Other separated Orthodox groups – 6 million
Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church – 5.5 million
Old Believers – 5.5 million
Greek Old Calendarists – 0.86 million
 

cossack 316

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I guess since the Patriarchates of Antioch, Alexandria, & Jerusalem have 2.5 million, 1.5 million, and 140,000 members respectively, their Patriarchs are even more irrelevant and "relics" than the EP with 3.5 million? The fact that Turkey has few orthodox Christians nowadays is an absurd argument to belittle the EP. He is the 1st among equals and has for centuries granted other churches canonical recognition.
 

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cossack 316 said:
I guess since the Patriarchates of Antioch, Alexandria, & Jerusalem have 2.5 million, 1.5 million, and 140,000 members respectively, their Patriarchs are even more irrelevant and "relics" than the EP with 3.5 million? The fact that Turkey has few orthodox Christians nowadays is an absurd argument to belittle the EP. He is the 1st among equals and has for centuries granted other churches canonical recognition.
I think that's counting Greece (and elsewhere in the world?) And those only answer indirectly to the EP, as opposed to, for example, the Patriarch of Moscow who rules a large a diocese directly.

EDIT: Ok, looks like it's counting all the EP Churches in the world other than Greece. My mistake.
 

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cossack 316 said:
He is the 1st among equals
Do you know why Constantinople was given this status at the second ecumenical council?
 

ICXCNIKA

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cossack 316 said:
I guess since the Patriarchates of Antioch, Alexandria, & Jerusalem have 2.5 million, 1.5 million, and 140,000 members respectively, their Patriarchs are even more irrelevant and "relics" than the EP with 3.5 million? The fact that Turkey has few orthodox Christians nowadays is an absurd argument to belittle the EP. He is the 1st among equals and has for centuries granted other churches canonical recognition.
One is not irrelevant or insignificant based on size. I have not seen Antioch, Alexandria, or Jerusalem the true Mother Church make any of the ridiculous claims as the Phanar. If one is small ok but don't pretend to be something you are not. It is not that they have so few members in Turkey it is that is wasting its time playing church politics and disturbing the peace of the holy churches of God instead of preaching the gospel to their fellow countrymen in Turkey. Look at all of the mission work being done by Antioch and Alexandria. Even the first among equals is still only equal.

If a church were persecuted they would naturally gain the love and affection of all. However, that is squandered when one is puffed up with pride.
 

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Patriarch Bartholomew's speech at Istanbul meeting heretical - Russian theologist

Moscow, September 6, Interfax - The claim by Patriarch Bartholomew at a Synaxis in Istanbul that his Church of Constantinople has exclusive rights to resolve the problems of the Christian Orthodox world was pure heresy, Archpriest Andrey Novikov, a member of the Moscow Patriarchate's Bible Theological Commission, said.

"All these expressions - that without the Patriarchate of Constantinople all other local Churches are sheep without a shepherd, that Constantinople possesses certain exclusivity, that it represents an ethos, or nation, of the Orthodoxy, that it has the special rights of ultimate jurisdiction over the whole Church and ensures its unity - all this repeats the Roman Catholic views on the Pope's role in the Church, and that is already absolute, pure heresy," the priest told Interfax-Religion on Thursday.

Overall, the patriarch's speech was a collection of what was said before by various Constantinople theologists, he said.

"It is a trend which has existed since the Middle Ages, but saw a particular rise in the 20th century, becoming hypertrophic, the so-called Eastern Papism trend," Father Andrey said.

However, whereas previously such musings were expressed as a personal opinion of certain hierarchs, now it was said at the Sinaxis, a gathering of all bishops of Constantinople, and "no one protested," meaning that the patriarch's point of view became ecumenical, the priest said.

The Moscow Patriarchate will find it "very difficult to continue communicating with the people who effectively are trying to impose on the Orthodox Church the Roman Catholic model: it runs counter to the Church as created by Jesus Christ," Father Andrey said.

Except that unlike the Roman Catholic Church, whose postulation about papal infallibility was nevertheless endorsed by the Ecumenical Council, Istanbul "has no need for this: here, it was simply a gathering of Constantinople hierarchs representing 3% of the Orthodox land, proclaiming things supposedly binding on the entire Orthodox world, " the priest said.

"This is simply downright mockery of the entire Church. It is simply no longer possible to tolerate, nor co-exist with it while remaining the united Church," he said.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=14448
 
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