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persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?

Theophan_C

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For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened." (http://www.cit-sakti.com/resources/kundalini-glossary.htm)  What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.  It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.

I thought it would go away with baptism but it didn't. It doesn't bother me except perhaps it does distract me as it's impossible (for me) to ignore.  I've read demons occasionally appear as light to steal the benefit we might otherwise obtain by just such distraction.  This is plausible because it does usually appear toward the end of some spiritual contemplation - kind of like an exclamation point - but lasting no longer than a second or two.

I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?

p.s.

Why call it a "demon"?  because this blue light was specifically mentioned as such by Fr. Seraphim Rose somewhere in "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future".  I'm not saying that proves anything, it just makes me wonder is all ...
 

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You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 
 

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Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?
 

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jah777 said:
You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 
sigh... if only I could

Are you saying only a discerning spiritual father would know the answer or "that lump is malignant and it needs to come out now!"
 

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IoanC said:
Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?
Yes, one time I had a highly paid contract job in a very corporate setting for several months and the blue light basically disappeared.  I characterized my spiritual state during that time as very low or worldly (not that I'm suggesting anything good about this light - I'm just saying that's what I recall thinking at the time).

Lately I see it maybe 1 to 5 times a day, maybe some days not at all.  I don't actually count.
 

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Феофан said:
IoanC said:
Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?
Yes, one time I had a highly paid contract job in a very corporate setting for several months and the blue light basically disappeared.  I characterized my spiritual state during that time as very low or worldly (not that I'm suggesting anything good about this light - I'm just saying that's what I recall thinking at the time).

Lately I see it maybe 1 to 5 times a day, maybe some days not at all.  I don't actually count.
I believe it's a very minor and rather common type of demonic assault. Don't give it any attention when it happens. We should aim for our attention always being given to God who is always with us.
 

WPM

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Because of its reference in the Gospels, the use of the word "demon" is commonplace. Even when you don't know what it is. Could be "phenomena" ...
 

Iconodule

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I have no idea, but perhaps it is a neutral/ benign phenomenon which has been misinterpreted by the gurus.
 

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IoanC said:
I believe it's a very minor and rather common type of demonic assault. Don't give it any attention when it happens. We should aim for our attention always being given to God who is always with us.
ahh...  I feel relieved.  During all this time I never really knew for sure what to make of it so I never really did make anything of it - now it just seems odd but basically meaningless (to me).  Other people have big ideas about it but I could never really see why.

I like to think my guardian angel has been smacking the demon down all these years before he ever got a chance to get a good burn in!   :angel:   May God protect us all.
 

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I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).

I would look at it as a demonic assault. Knowing that the guardian angel is there to keep things under control is definitely helpful.
 

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I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).
HOW could you possibly know? Apart from blogging, what are your credentials to state the above as a fact?
 

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Pardon, but isn't kundalini associated with Hinduism? I have to ask, could the OP not just drop any interest in Hinduism and maybe it'll go away? My Mom used to tell me not to scratch bug bites, after all.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
biro said:
I think the safest thing to do is to let a priest know.
Also, has the OP consulted a physician? 
This is where I would start. No use worrying about demonic activity and all if it turns out that you just have some pressure on your optic nerve.
 

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OP here...

@biro - I'm not trying to see this thing - it just happens. I'm not interested in Hinduism - this is not self-induced in any way I'm aware of.

@trisagion & @mor - No I haven't seen a physician - in this country you get about 2 minutes with a doctor and if you aren't dieing you don't get much more than that.  I recently paid to see an optometrist however (for new glasses) and she said the inside of my eyes are fine.

 

Mor Ephrem

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Феофан said:
@trisagion & @mor - No I haven't seen a physician - in this country you get about 2 minutes with a doctor and if you aren't dieing you don't get much more than that.  I recently paid to see an optometrist however (for new glasses) and she said the inside of my eyes are fine.
My sympathies for your country's inferior health system.  But still, that's no excuse not to exhaust the medical possibilities before assuming the demonic.  Better safe than sorry.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
My sympathies for your country's inferior health system.  But still, that's no excuse not to exhaust the medical possibilities before assuming the demonic.  Better safe than sorry.
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like.  I don't assume it's demonic.  I don't know what it is - just what other people say but I don't necessarily believe them.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Феофан said:
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like. 
No need.  I'm Indian, I've heard of it. 
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Феофан said:
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like. 
No need.  I'm Indian, I've heard of it. 
Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).

Anyway... thanks again for your concern and my apologies for hijacking my own thread!  ;)
 

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Феофан said:
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.
 You are here long enough to know you shall not present your religious beliefs in this section of the forum. 14 days of warning - MK.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Феофан said:
Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).
Generally I avoid Protestant televangelists, preachers, apologists, etc., but I find that I like Ravi Zacharias when I hear him on the radio.  Not enough to become a groupie, but I find him acceptable for a Protestant. 

I'd be interested to hear his opinion on the Western interest in Indian spirituality.  I have my own ideas, but he'd probably express himself more elegantly on that matter than I would.  ;)
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Феофан said:
Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).
Generally I avoid Protestant televangelists, preachers, apologists, etc., but I find that I like Ravi Zacharias when I hear him on the radio.  Not enough to become a groupie, but I find him acceptable for a Protestant. 

I'd be interested to hear his opinion on the Western interest in Indian spirituality.  I have my own ideas, but he'd probably express himself more elegantly on that matter than I would.  ;)
This explains why I misread "persistent" as "Protestant" in the threat title!
 

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PoorFoolNicholas said:
I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).
HOW could you possibly know? Apart from blogging, what are your credentials to state the above as a fact?
You know better than to think I honor such questions, especially ever since you started investigating and attacking me on a personal level. (it's ok to stop this, it won't get you anywhere as you have noticed).
 

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Феофан said:
I don't know what it is - just what other people say but I don't necessarily believe them.
And nothing else matters... :)
 

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Make the sign of the Cross and say prayers to St. Michael the Archangel. I have no idea what this is, and I am not qualified to speculate. My humble opinion (and I'm just a sinful layman) is that you should not concern yourself with whether or not this is demonic. Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't. Either way, God is allowing you to experience this strange unpleasantness. What comes to mind is St. Paul's thorn in the flesh. He prayed three times for God to remove it, but God allowed it to remain. So try taking St. Paul's approach. Ask God to remove this from you, and if He allows it to remain then ask Him for the grace to live with it accordingly. Try to deal with it like a form of spiritual arthritis. If you can't make it go away, then do your best to ignore it by occupying your mind with other things - preferably spiritually productive things. But as others have said, please do consult a Priest that you trust about this matter.

"Lord have mercy."

Selam
 

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Jetavan said:
Феофан said:
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.
Yay! Jetavan is back!  :)
 

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Феофан said:
jah777 said:
You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 
sigh... if only I could
Do you know how to write a letter?

Феофан said:
Are you saying only a discerning spiritual father would know the answer or "that lump is malignant and it needs to come out now!"
In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.
 

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jah777 said:
In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.
IMHO, he should see the physician of the body first. If nothing is found, then spiritual guidance should be sought. Simple symptoms can often develop into complex problems.

If it was me, I wouldn't risk my eyesight. I'd get this checked out.
 

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Yes, go talk to someone. However if it remained immediately after baptism its no demon. Nothings making it past that.
 

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Romaios said:
Jetavan said:
Феофан said:
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.
Yay! Jetavan is back!  :)
I've been on sabbatical. :)
 

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Sincere questions (and suggested answers):

Феофан said:
For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened."
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.

What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?

It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
 

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BryanS said:
Sincere questions (and suggested answers):

Феофан said:
For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened."
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.

What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?

It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
It is on the internet. In real life, if you went to your priest and asked him about it, he would probably look at you quizzically and ask when your eye doctor appt is.
 

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BryanS said:
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.
[...]
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?
[...]
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your interest.  As mentioned, my optometrist says the inside of my eye, optic nerve, etc. are fine but I've not been to an ophthalmologist.  The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.  During one meditation retreat it was happening 30 -50 times per hour - playing chess never.  Reading spiritual books - many times.  Reading news - never.

Whether it's a good or bad thing I don't know.  Whether it's a demon or a natural part of "spiritual physiology" I don't know.  I don't "put stock in gurus" (well... not any more!)  I only mentioned it so others might be less inclined to assume I'm imagining it. I think the truth is none of us here (especially me) have any certain knowledge about this light.

Congratulations on your interest in Orthodoxy - I hope oc.net doesn't give you a bad impression ;)    Good luck with your search ... may God guide you!
 

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The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.
Self-diagnosis is a dangerous thing.
 

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BryanS said:
It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't wish to put words in his mouth, but it sounds as though he started having this experience prior to becoming an Orthodox Christian, that before he was Orthodox he was involved with gurus and was told by a guru that this is a "kundalini" phenomenon, and now that he is an Orthodox Christian he does not accept the Hindu explanation for this phenomenon and wants to understand how to properly understand this phenomenon as an Orthodox Christian.
 

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So, were you a Hindu or yogi?
Феофан said:
BryanS said:
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.
[...]
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?
[...]
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your interest.  As mentioned, my optometrist says the inside of my eye, optic nerve, etc. are fine but I've not been to an ophthalmologist.  The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.  During one meditation retreat it was happening 30 -50 times per hour - playing chess never.  Reading spiritual books - many times.  Reading news - never.

Whether it's a good or bad thing I don't know.  Whether it's a demon or a natural part of "spiritual physiology" I don't know.   I don't "put stock in gurus" (well... not any more!)  I only mentioned it so others might be less inclined to assume I'm imagining it. I think the truth is none of us here (especially me) have any certain knowledge about this light.

Congratulations on your interest in Orthodoxy - I hope oc.net doesn't give you a bad impression ;)    Good luck with your search ... may God guide you!
 

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LBK said:
jah777 said:
In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.
IMHO, he should see the physician of the body first. If nothing is found, then spiritual guidance should be sought. Simple symptoms can often develop into complex problems.

If it was me, I wouldn't risk my eyesight. I'd get this checked out.
Could be a neurological issue - the possibility of a brain lesion/tumor needs to be ruled out.

The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.
Certain areas of the brain are associated with particular mental activities.
 
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