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persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?

Theophan_C

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TheTrisagion said:
Have you considered an exorcism?
Yes, I was very concerned about the many deep sustained elements of real darkness in my previous path and tried my best to convey this to my priest before baptism and specifically in the life confession.  I took the exorcism part of baptism literally.  At that time I hadn't read Fr. Seraphim Rose "Orthodoxy & the Religion of the Future" mentioning this specific light (and associated guru) so I probably didn't mention it specifically either.  I'm not certain I even consciously considered it to be demonic at the time.  Now I do.

I am going to discuss all this with my priest and get his take on it.

 

Gayle

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May  the lord have mercy on you an heal you!
 

Theophan_C

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Gayle said:
May  the lord have mercy on you an heal you!
Thanks Gayle ... I will gladly take all the prayers I can get. 

Over time this has become more an oddity than even an annoyance and I'm coming to the conclusion the real danger (for me) might be in my jumping to any conclusions about it at all - "good" or "bad".  While I'm quite certain it comes from some "spiritual" source other than God I don't think that necessarily means I am possessed just because God allows it to appear to me.  As long as I don't "own" it somehow or jump off the deep end about what it "really means" - I hope with God's help I'll be OK.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Феофан said:
Over time this has become more an oddity than even an annoyance and I'm coming to the conclusion the real danger (for me) might be in my jumping to any conclusions about it at all - "good" or "bad".
 

+

While I'm quite certain it comes from some "spiritual" source other than God I don't think that necessarily means I am possessed just because God allows it to appear to me.
 

=

________________________________________________
 

Theophan_C

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A "mor" carefully worded version would be:  "while I'm reasonably certain it comes from some non-physical source other than God, I feel any conclusion (good or bad) beyond that seems dangerous and unwarranted (for me)".  

I think the intended meaning was clear enough in my previous post but Mor was quick to point out an apparent contradiction.  Surely he did so in a spirit of trying to help me because a graduate from St. Vladamir's wouldn't speak to anyone here just to mock or insult them would he?

You are a graduate of St.Vladamir's aren't you Mor?  Are you planning to be a priest someday?  
 

SolEX01

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OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?
 

Theophan_C

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SolEX01 said:
OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?
Have you read my previous posts in this thread?  Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.  When attending Siddha Yoga meditation retreats I would see this light once or twice per minute - but never like that any other time before or since.  I never see it when reading news or playing chess - only when I'm reading or contemplating some spiritual topic and then only at a meaningful juncture like the conclusion of something.

For what it's worth to those of you who insist I have an eye problem ... keep in mind the Siddha Yoga guru confirmed to me that what I see is exactly what they see and it is this group and this light specifically mentioned by Fr. Seraphim Rose as being demonic.

For the life of me I don't understand why that should be SO implausible for some of you to accept.
 

Asteriktos

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I find much of what Fr. Seraphim said to be implausible, so bringing him up only makes me more suspicious. But then I have no clue what is going on with you, so...  I'm not sure where to go with this.
 

Theophan_C

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Asteriktos said:
But then I have no clue what is going on with you, so...   I'm not sure where to go with this.
I think that is very fair of you sir ... and it's a relief for me to know at least one person here is not convinced they know far better than I do though they have no direct experience of the topic.
 

SolEX01

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Феофан said:
SolEX01 said:
OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?
Have you read my previous posts in this thread?
Yes.

Феофан said:
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.
That doesn't mean you don't have visual hallucinations while focusing spiritually.

Феофан said:
When attending Siddha Yoga meditation retreats I would see this light once or twice per minute - but never like that any other time before or since.
Why participate in Siddha Yoga meditation retreats?

Феофан said:
I never see it when reading news or playing chess - only when I'm reading or contemplating some spiritual topic and then only at a meaningful juncture like the conclusion of something.
You read news, play chess and practice Siddha Yoga - no other activities?

Феофан said:
For what it's worth to those of you who insist I have an eye problem ... keep in mind the Siddha Yoga guru confirmed to me that what I see is exactly what they see and it is this group and this light specifically mentioned by Fr. Seraphim Rose as being demonic.

For the life of me I don't understand why that should be SO implausible for some of you to accept.
If you have a correlation between seeing "demonic" lights and practicing Siddha Yoga, why not stop the Siddha Yoga?  If you still see lights, then consult with a medical professional.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Феофан said:
A "mor" carefully worded version would be:  "while I'm reasonably certain it comes from some non-physical source other than God, I feel any conclusion (good or bad) beyond that seems dangerous and unwarranted (for me)".  

I think the intended meaning was clear enough in my previous post but Mor was quick to point out an apparent contradiction.  Surely he did so in a spirit of trying to help me because a graduate from St. Vladamir's wouldn't speak to anyone here just to mock or insult them would he?
Actually, my first five or six contributions to this thread were my attempt to offer serious advice to help you regarding the initial question(s) you posed at the beginning.  But over the course of the thread you seemed to me and to others to have a definite opinion about what is going on with you, and therefore not to want to pursue certain avenues of investigation that are a matter of prudence and common sense for Christians (Orthodox or not), while leaping into (IMO) wild conjecture regarding what are, to you, more probable causes.  That's dangerous on numerous levels.  You're welcome to consider it insulting, but if people can't reach you through conventional means, they will try others hoping that something will click and you will start thinking and acting more sensibly. 

Ultimately, though, it is your life, and you are free to do with it as you please.  But when you keep putting yourself and your self-diagnoses out there and make snide remarks against those who have tried to help you with advice with which you disagree, don't sanctimoniously pretend to be a victim.       

You are a graduate of St.Vladamir's aren't you Mor?  Are you planning to be a priest someday?  
Yes and no.  The angels rejoice.   
 

Theophan_C

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SolEX01 said:
Why participate in Siddha Yoga meditation retreats?
[...]
If you have a correlation between seeing "demonic" lights and practicing Siddha Yoga, why not stop the Siddha Yoga?  If you still see lights, then consult with a medical professional.
I attended Siddha Yoga retreats maybe 25 years ago and stopped after 1 or 2 years.  Seeing their "blue pearl" has been intermittent since, sometimes not for several months.  I've been Christian for only 1 year.
 

Theophan_C

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Mor Ephrem said:
Феофан said:
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.  
Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist. 
Perhaps I should but not for this reason.
 

Theophan_C

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Mor Ephrem said:
Ultimately, though, it is your life, and you are free to do with it as you please.  But when you keep putting yourself and your self-diagnoses out there and make snide remarks against those who have tried to help you with advice with which you disagree, don't sanctimoniously pretend to be a victim.         
ahh... OK,  it might have been better for me to have chosen a subject line like "former cult member continues to experience "siddhis".

The first time I saw this light I was looking at a photo of Swami Muktananda on the back of one of his books which is a classic and almost common kind of introduction for "devotees".  They considered this to be a spontaneous awakening of kundalini energy - like dry wood catching fire from a small spark.  I remember reading a book by an American psychology professor who described seeing this electric blue light coming out of Muktananda's eye entering his own and circulating back to Muktananda. His book wasn't specifically about Siddha Yoga he just mentioned it parenthetically in a scientifically objective way. 

If my disputants here really care about me or the topic they should research Siddha Yoga / Muktananda and the kinds of things happening to people back then because I was one of them.  My particular experience was classic and completely in keeping  with other supposed "adepts" in that cult.  God knows what we were really experiencing but it's very unlikely it was retinal failure (in my opinion). 

Obviously I experienced seeing this light much more frequently when I was actively participating in the cult but it's exactly the same when I experience it again now - 25 years later.



 

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Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.
Of course they can, spiritual focus is mental focus after all. Many things can trigger hallucinations, from stress to anticipation. You may be so focused on it, consciously or subconsciously, that your brain playing tricks on you. People with certain mental traits can be easily talked into various visual effects which may not be persistent, but for some people it stays for the life (like flashing lights in anxiety disorders, for some it stays long after treatment).

 

Theophan_C

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bearpaws said:
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.
Of course they can, spiritual focus is mental focus after all. Many things can trigger hallucinations, from stress to anticipation. You may be so focused on it, consciously or subconsciously, that your brain playing tricks on you. People with certain mental traits can be easily talked into various visual effects which may not be persistent, but for some people it stays for the life (like flashing lights in anxiety disorders, for some it stays long after treatment).
In your opinion would this be equally true for everyone in the Siddha Yoga cult who experiences this?
 

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I have no opinion really, I don't know how many of them experienced anything and how many just said they did. Unguided, regular meditation can be harmful for people with preexisting mental and even physical conditions, it is that easy to induce things on your own, so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.

Anyway, answering your question from the title, I would ignore it.
 

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bearpaws said:
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.
Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).
 

TheTrisagion

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Феофан said:
bearpaws said:
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.
Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).
I doubt there is any channeling of demons, but I do think there is a very strong sense of self-delusion.
 

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Феофан said:
bearpaws said:
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.
Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).

When it comes to fundies there is always some major brainwashing going on. Some like to call everything demonic, but truth is people are most of the time far worse than demons, and a lot harder to deal with  ::)
 

Theophan_C

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bearpaws said:
Some like to call everything demonic, but truth is people are most of the time far worse than demons, and a lot harder to deal with  ::)
I think human goodness is a dim reflection of divine goodness and human evil is a dim reflection of the demonic. Without the protection of God I doubt humans would stand a chance against fallen angels . 
 

hecma925

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Lol, "fundies."
 
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