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Pictures of Western Icons?

Alpo

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What's the history behind tonsure? Our practice with long hair and all that is quite the opposite and I wonder which was the original practice.
 

Iconodule

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We used to tonsure monks similarly. You can see it in icons of, eg, St Gregory Palamas.
 

Alpo

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Iconodule said:
We used to tonsure monks similarly. You can see it in icons of, eg, St Gregory Palamas.
Why and when did it change?
 

Jackson02

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Alpo said:
Iconodule said:
We used to tonsure monks similarly. You can see it in icons of, eg, St Gregory Palamas.
Why and when did it change?
The practice in the east was usually always the same. the tonsure shown above is Roman, though their was the Celtic tonsure that died out after the synod of Whitby.
 

Volnutt

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Jackson02 said:
though their was the Celtic tonsure that died out after the synod of Whitby.
Which, as much as I hate to say this as a lover of all things Irish, was kind of stupid looking imo.

 

Asteriktos

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I bet the monks didn't cut their hair as a sign of "not caring about things of the world," and some guy had a major league skullet, and everyone was impressed like, "wow that guy must be REALLY humble to be willing to walk around looking like that" and it became an emperors/clothes thing where people started imitating it and everyone was afraid to say anything to each other about how stupid it looked, but then finally byzantine humanists + muslim immigrants reintroduced reason and common sense to Europe and everyone was like "lol no let's not do that anymore" and then it ended.
 

Iconodule

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Jackson02 said:
Alpo said:
Iconodule said:
We used to tonsure monks similarly. You can see it in icons of, eg, St Gregory Palamas.
Why and when did it change?
The practice in the east was usually always the same
On the contrary the eastern tonsure was much like the western one. It was called “papalethra”. Apprently St Theodore of Tarsus had his whole head shaved. It fell into disuse so now there is just a vestigial clipping of a few hairs.
 

Sharbel

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Alpo said:
What's the history behind tonsure? Our practice with long hair and all that is quite the opposite and I wonder which was the original practice.
At least in the West, only clerics were tonsured monks.  The tonsure left the hair in the shape of a crown, symbolizing martyrdom. 

Its current practice in the West is now rare, but it's still usually restricted to cleric monks and the whole head is shaved.
 

Volnutt

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Asteriktos said:
I bet the monks didn't cut their hair as a sign of "not caring about things of the world," and some guy had a major league skullet, and everyone was impressed like, "wow that guy must be REALLY humble to be willing to walk around looking like that" and it became an emperors/clothes thing where people started imitating it and everyone was afraid to say anything to each other about how stupid it looked, but then finally byzantine humanists + muslim immigrants reintroduced reason and common sense to Europe and everyone was like "lol no let's not do that anymore" and then it ended.
 

Volnutt

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Iconodule said:
Jackson02 said:
Alpo said:
Iconodule said:
We used to tonsure monks similarly. You can see it in icons of, eg, St Gregory Palamas.
Why and when did it change?
The practice in the east was usually always the same
On the contrary the eastern tonsure was much like the western one. It was called “papalethra”. Apprently St Theodore of Tarsus had his whole head shaved. It fell into disuse so now there is just a vestigial clipping of a few hairs.
Yeah, it's interesting. You find all kinds of arguments about the Apostles supposedly shaving their heads (St. Theodore attributed his to Peter and Paul and later writers added James to the mix. The Irish could only trace their tonsure to John, heh). And then there's the line in the Canons of Quinisext about clerics having to regrow their hair as a punishment.

St. Nicodemus actually advocates in the Rudder for the return of the papalethra as being a more ancient practice (Latin Captivity arguments may now commence). http://gavaisky.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-hairy-business.html
 

LivenotoneviL

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Volnutt said:
Jackson02 said:
though their was the Celtic tonsure that died out after the synod of Whitby.
Which, as much as I hate to say this as a lover of all things Irish, was kind of stupid looking imo.

Actually, we don't really know for certain what exactly the Irish tonsure looked like.
 

Volnutt

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I'd say it's the best guess. A possible contemporary depiction from Bohemia:




The alternate possibility would be that all the hair was shaved to the ears, which would still look of dumb imo. But OTOH I can't really judge too harshly.
 

juliogb

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Church of the Transfiguration in Mount Tabor, Israel. Quite beautiful church, the architecture resembles depictions of Turmanin church and the ruins of the Qalb Loze church, both in Idlib, Syria.





 

Orthodox_Slav

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I am new and do not know how to properly so here are links to them!

romanesque Jesus christ
https://kamis-imagesofjesus.weebly.com/jesus-in-romanesque-art.html

orthodox hand of God
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hand_gottes.jpg

medieval crucifix
http://www.medievalhistories.com/wp-content/uploads/WEB-Cathedral-in-Naumburg-crypt-crucifix.jpg
 

Orthodox_Slav

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more...

christ descent into hell
http://ica.themorgan.org/manuscript/page/21/77488

russian icon of Jesus Christ
http://www.danielbibb.com/content/exhibits/detail4.php?itemID=50030

russian icon of Theotokos

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/345932815097209789
 

LivenotoneviL

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Hi, you just type in (without spaces or quotation marks) "[ img ] image link goes here [ /img ]""

and you can readjust the size of the image by putting in height= and width= as separate words in the first box.

For example,

[ img ] http://www.asianews.it/files/img/size3/RUSSIA_(F)_0204_-_Kirill.jpg [ /img ]

comes out like this:



and this:

[ img  height=330 width=220 ] http://www.asianews.it/files/img/size3/RUSSIA_(F)_0204_-_Kirill.jpg [ /img ]

comes out like this:

 

Orthodox_Slav

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please answer truthfully what did everyone think of my contributions! (the links)
 

Jackson02

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Orthodox_Slav said:
please answer truthfully what did everyone think of my contributions! (the links)
I liked them. I'm a sucker for the "Old-Rite" style of Russian icons.
 

Alpo

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Orthodox_Slav said:
please answer truthfully what did everyone think of my contributions! (the links)
If you wish to retain your sanity on internets (and in life in general) I'd suggest stop caring about what people think about you and post anyway.

That said, the icons were quite nice.
 

Jackson02

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Alpo said:
Orthodox_Slav said:
please answer truthfully what did everyone think of my contributions! (the links)
If you wish to retain your sanity on internets (and in life in general) I'd suggest stop caring about what people think about you and post anyway.

That said, the icons were quite nice.
Should've not said anything to make your point.
 

Alpo

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^Just saying something I wish someone had told me when I was younger.
 

Sharbel

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Well, when I heard from my priest that he has to deal with depressed teenagers because they didn't get at least 100 "likes" at the end of the day, it's probably a good advice, depending on the age of the poster.
 

LivenotoneviL

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Sharbel said:
Well, when I heard from my priest that he has to deal with depressed teenagers because they didn't get at least 100 "likes" at the end of the day, it's probably a good advice, depending on the age of the poster.
Especially as well if English is not his first language (which, based on his jurisdiction, seems to be the case).
 

Alpo

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^Considering how many mistakes I make that should be fairly obvious.
 

Orthodox_Slav

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well, thanks for the replies and thanks for the interesting comment alpo! and I can speak English fluently by the way!
 

LivenotoneviL

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This is from an Anglican Ordinariate church, but it really stuck out to me - aside from the Virgin Mary looking to the right towards Jesus and not towards the viewer. I also don't recognize the two Saints on the left and right of the altar.

 
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