• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Piroghis are not Orthodox

BrotherAidan

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
pennsylvania
So I am taking a walk on Sunday afternoon. I pass the Lutheran church and hear people coming out of it (about 4 in the afternoon) talking in accented English and over-hear a couple of individuals discussing how many piroghis they made.

I stop to talk and find it is a congregation of immigrant Russians and Ukranians. So I talk for a bit and ask if they just have reader services (wondering to myself how they conduct liturgy in a Lutheran sanctuary) and if they use church slavonic, thinking this might be an immigrant mission parish. Then the one young man (twenty-something) tells me: "No, we're not Orthodox; people take turns preaching; we are Russian Baptists and Independents and do the whole service in Russian. "

I probably looked dumfounded. He was kind enough to invite me to visit one of their services.

Imagine that: Baptist pirogis!
 

welkodox

Archon
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Where I've seen large concentrations of Eastern Europeans, there are always lots of Protestant churches.  Ukrainians and Romanians in particular.  Put the words "Ukrainian Pentecostal" or "Slavic Full Gospel" in google and see how much comes up.

The mayor of Kiev is Protestant btw.
 

aserb

OC.Net Guru
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
1,188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
66
Location
Valley Forge, PA
Now there is an untouched mission field. Bringing back the cradle Orthodox who have gone astray, oh but God forbid we have a bunch of former protestant Ukranians take over our wonderfully diverse convert parish.  The angels in heaven rejoice when one turns from error whether he/she is a cradle returning home or a convert new to Orthodox Christianity.
 

welkodox

Archon
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Now there is an untouched mission field. Bringing back the cradle Orthodox who have gone astray, oh but God forbid we have a bunch of former protestant Ukranians take over our wonderfully diverse convert parish.
Here I think I must give voice to some dissent.  ;)

I think most parishes would gladly welcome back reverts, of course there will always be your odd exception.

In this case I think some kudos should be given to those who engage in evangelism and actively seek to spread the faith.  Many of those who do engage in such things, and support groups like the OCMC, are the converts.  The sad fact is the Evangelicals are making huge inroads in some traditional Orthodox and Catholic countries.  We can blame whoever we want to blame for that, but primarily I think we need to look within the church and see our own failings.

The people in question here may actually be cradle Protestants however.  In Russia and Ukraine there have been Protestant groups around for several generations with imports like the Baptists or native groups like the Molokans.

And don't get me started about the Bogomils!
 

minasoliman

Stratopedarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
20,198
Reaction score
9
Points
38
Location
NJ
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Coptic
I thought I was the only Egyptian in WV.  But apparently, I've heard of another Egyptian who happens to be an Episcopal priest.  Now what are the odds!
 

Schultz

Taxiarches
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Messages
6,699
Reaction score
8
Points
38
Age
47
Location
BaltiCORE, MD
Website
www.theidlegossip.com
Near my in-laws house in Baltimore there is a "Slavic Christian Church" that has services in Russian, Ukrainian and Polish with different services in those languages.  It's most likely a "non-denominational" Christian church.

It's odd to me considering that w/in a mile there are:
Two historically Polish RC churches (one of which has a Polish mass)
One Ukrainian Catholic church (most services in Ukrainian)
One UOC-MP church (no idea about language, but I'd guess Ukrainian)
One OCA church (Most services in English with a bit of Slavonic)
One ROCOR church (services are totally in Slavonic and Russian)
One Russian Orthodox - MP church (main church: mostly English, chapel in nearby Elkridge, mostly Russian)
 

Aristibule

High Elder
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
515
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
ROCOR - WRITE
The Lutherans are a bit different than the modern missionaries in Eastern Europe. The Eastern Lutherans are generally descended from Lutherans who were persecuted in Roman Catholic lands, and to whom the Czars of Russia gave protection. This included a fair number of Czech and Germans. This was normal for Russia, where there had always been folk of other religions: Muslims, Jews, Shamanists, Catholics, Lutherans, Mennonites, Reformed, etc. A good specific example is the Volga Germans - many of their ancestors in Kansas consider themselves Russian or Ukrainian, as they came from there in the last century. However, ultimately they were German refugees whom Catherine the Great settled in Russia only as recently as the 1760s.
 

Keble

Protokentarchos
Joined
Mar 31, 2003
Messages
3,624
Reaction score
4
Points
38
Age
62
Location
Maryland
I remember being at the folk festival in Johnstown, (singing with the Slavic Male Chorus of Washington) and after all the fever dream ethnic Catholic churches (and the abominable wrecknovation of St. Rochus, the Croatian church) it was pleasant to step into this nice, calm Lutheran church. I did wonder why they were hawking pirogies out front, but then I found out it was a Slovak Lutheran church.
 

choirfiend

High Elder
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
903
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
39
Location
Pennsylvania
There is a large Russian Baptist congregation near me. As explained by my priest, these are NOT lapsed or removed Orthodox. Several hundred years ago, German farmers were sent into areas that are now in teh Ukraine and Russia to settle newly conquered territories. They were Anabaptists, and these Russian Baptists are their direct descendants, though they are thoroughly russified in all other ways. They are a people who ALWAYS WERE Baptist.
 

Aristibule

High Elder
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
515
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
ROCOR - WRITE
Well, not *always* Baptist - they were Roman Catholic before then, and before then Orthodox Western Catholics. ;)
 

Lemko Rusyn

Member
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
118
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Карпатьска Русь
Website
www.rusynmedia.org
In DC in Dupont Circle near where I live there is now a

Русская объединенная методитская церковь
(Russian United Methodist Church)

that meets at Foundry UMC (where the Clintons went to church). Funny, every time I walk near it, though, I pass people speaking Polish.
 

welkodox

Archon
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Most importantly Pierogis are not Orthodox.  Pyrohy are.
 

welkodox

Archon
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Ian Lazarus said:
WhodijiggaWhat?
Yes, here in the NE we've had a problem with Bogomils.  I've seen a few Cathars about recently as well.
 

Aristibule

High Elder
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
515
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
ROCOR - WRITE
Cathar is just Romantic for Puritan - the Northeast was *founded* by Cathars. ;) Sadly, I've been seeing some of those down here as well and wonder if the Catholics didn't have a good idea with that Albigensian Crusade. Now, as for Bogomils - not sure I know what one looks like? Something like a Baptist, Molokhan or Doukhobour?
 

welkodox

Archon
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
0
Points
0
You'll usually be able to spot Bogomils due to the Teal jumpsuits and their feathered hair.

Most of the Cathars have moved on, but we have had a spate of Waldensianism.  Lately we've been having issues with Rosicrucians holding up traffic and panhandling.
 

username!

Protokentarchos
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
5,090
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Where Iron hydrochloride ruins watersheds
Schultz said:
Near my in-laws house in Baltimore there is a "Slavic Christian Church" that has services in Russian, Ukrainian and Polish with different services in those languages.  It's most likely a "non-denominational" Christian church.

It's odd to me considering that w/in a mile there are:
Two historically Polish RC churches (one of which has a Polish mass)
One Ukrainian Catholic church (most services in Ukrainian)
One UOC-MP church (no idea about language, but I'd guess Ukrainian)
One OCA church (Most services in English with a bit of Slavonic)
One ROCOR church (services are totally in Slavonic and Russian)
One Russian Orthodox - MP church (main church: mostly English, chapel in nearby Elkridge, mostly Russian)
Wouldn't the UOC church be Ecumencial Patriarchate?  Just for clarification.
 

username!

Protokentarchos
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
5,090
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Where Iron hydrochloride ruins watersheds
welkodox said:
You'll usually be able to spot Bogomils due to the Teal jumpsuits and their feathered hair.

Most of the Cathars have moved on, but we have had a spate of Waldensianism.  Lately we've been having issues with Rosicrucians holding up traffic and panhandling.

Ah the cathars have migrated due west.  They've been showing up in old coal mine towns throughout the bitumonous region.  Bogomils have been noted for their taste of teal jumpsuits, but feathered hair IS falling out of tradition.  Anymore younger Bogomils have been wearing more accepted hair styles although it does cause stress among the elderly in their group.
 

BrotherAidan

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
pennsylvania
I think it would be awesome if these folks reverted back to Orthodoxy (per aserb's suggestion), but after several generations of atheistic communism the Orthodox connection may be only distantly generational. Heck, they were all twenty-something. They could be post-communist materialistic, secularist converts to evangelicalism.
They didn't try to evangelize me when I told them I was an Orthodox convert. All they did was invite me to their service (which gives me hope for them; that "come and see" attitude is very Orthodox!)
 

augustin717

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,107
Reaction score
188
Points
63
Faith
Higher Criticism
Jurisdiction
Dutch
In the case of the Romanian Evangelicals/Protestants, I still have to encounter one whose family is completely Protestants, without any Orthodox members still around. Not enough generations have passed fot this to happen and so, I think, the Orthodox "connection" for them and other Eastern European Protestants is still alive and touchable, and not something to be dug up from some archives.
 

augustin717

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,107
Reaction score
188
Points
63
Faith
Higher Criticism
Jurisdiction
Dutch
Ozgeorge,
The members of the Reformed Church are not Romanian, but exclusively Hungarian. The Saxons were Lutheran.
Very few Transylvanian Romanians accepted Protestantism in the 16th century and, because of that, through intermariage, they have been completely magyarized.
 
Top