Pope Francis Confident in Unity with Orthodoxy

[LukeDM]

Pope Francis told the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople Monday that he is confident that Catholics and Orthodox Christians will attain full communion.
In a message to Bartholomew I on the Feast of St. Andrew, Pope Francis praised the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s efforts to promote Christian unity.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...am-confident-we-will-achieve-full-unity-36072

Quite the statement. Can anyone recall any other popes making such a claim?

 

[hecma925]

I can't. I'm just waiting for His All Holiness Pope Francis, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province, Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God, and Grand Master of the Supreme Order of Christ to simply declare that we are unified. Done!

 

[Stinky]

I can't. I'm just waiting for His All Holiness Pope Francis, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province, Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God, and Grand Master of the Supreme Order of Christ to simply declare that we are unified. Done!

Then what?

 

[hecma925]

Then what?

Then we all become Roman and do things the Roman way.

 

[Stinky]

Then we all become Roman and do things the Roman way.

 

[Thetruthisgod]

The patriarch of Constantinople does not speak for all of orthodoxy, even though to the outside world that is his position... the orthodox pope.

A false union will simply create schism.

I am not ok with compromising the faith to papal supremacists. The only way this union would work is if the Roman Catholic Church abandons these bad ideas.

 

[Saxon]

The patriarch of Constantinople does not speak for all of orthodoxy, even though to the outside world that is his position... the orthodox pope.

A false union will simply create schism.

I am not ok with compromising the faith to papal supremacists. The only way this union would work is if the Roman Catholic Church abandons these bad ideas.

The problem is that Patriarch Bartholomew isn't simply viewed by outsiders as the Orthodox Pope; he's making pronouncements more or less declaring supremacy over Orthodoxy, and certainly acting like he is. He has already needlessly fractured Orthodoxy, and there's no indication he's going to back down now.

I suspect in the near future we'll likely see the EP and its Hellenic sycophant jurisdictions isolated, maybe in full schism, from Orthodoxy.

 

[recent convert]

Typical perpetual, top down tyranny; in some generations it is to compel ill will & in other times, a forced and phony “love”. There are so many ways we can see each other as saved by keeping the Lord’s commandments. We lack mutual theology to share the sacraments.

 

[Menas17]

I have a hard time believing that any Orthodox (laity/hierarch) outside of the small sphere of the Ecumenical Patriarchate will go into union with Rome, he seems to be the only one interested. Even within Turkey the majority of Orthodox are under the Patriarchate of Antioch in Hatay. If the Romans want Patriarch Bartholomew and his Ukrainians, let them have them. I have my doubts that even a majority of the Greek Archdiocese of America would join, especially not the monasteries

 

[theorthodoxchurch]

I recommend the book' the orthodox dilemma'. you may get a free pdf copy by emailing- theorthodoxchurch.info@gmail.com

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Dilemma-George-Alexander/dp/0359125360

 

[HaydenTE]

Any union between the Churches would cause schisms on both sides, and we'd be left with three Churches instead of two. Confessedly it would be one large Church and two smaller (and likely in the Roman case, tiny) Churches, but it certainly wouldn't be the lovey-dovey all embracing reunion one might hope for.

 

[noahzarc1]

Any union between the Churches would cause schisms on both sides, and we'd be left with three Churches instead of two. Confessedly it would be one large Church and two smaller (and likely in the Roman case, tiny) Churches, but it certainly wouldn't be the lovey-dovey all embracing reunion one might hope for.

Basically nothing would change. Sounds like what it is today. We haven't even had union and there are still schisms on both sides and we're basically three churches instead of two anyway.

 

[LukeDM]

And here HAH Bartholomew reciprocates:

https://spzh.news/en/news/76241-dia...mi-uvenchajet-polnoje-jedinstvo--glava-fanara

Patriarch Bartholomew announced that the Vatican and the Orthodox Church will unite despite the objections of those who consider ecumenism a utopia. The ecumenical dialogue between the RCC and the Orthodox Churches leads to the goal that will be crowned by the long-awaited full unity, Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople said in his sermon on the feast of the Apostle Andrew the First-Called, reports Pro Oriente.

 

[Menas17]

And here HAH Bartholomew reciprocates:

https://spzh.news/en/news/76241-dia...mi-uvenchajet-polnoje-jedinstvo--glava-fanara

Anaxios

 

[Ainnir]

Please take any strong feelings and comments to the proper forum. Thanks. —Ainnir

 

[Opus118]

The actual statement is here:

The Thronal Feast of the Ecumenical Patriarchate - Archon News Article - Order of Saint Andrew the Apostle, Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate

In a festive atmosphere, the Ecumenical Patriarchate honored the memory of Its founder, the Apostle Saint Andrew the First-Called. Today, Monday, November 30, 2020, the Divine Liturgy was celebrated by His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, with the participation of Their Eminences...

www.archons.org

Also, nothing has changed since the 2016 Great and Holy Council.
Item 15:
Upon the successful conclusion of the work of any theological dialogue, the pan-Orthodox decision about the restoration of ecclesiastical communion must, however, rest on the unanimity of all the local Orthodox Churches.

Relations of the Orthodox Church with the Rest of the Christian World - Official Documents - The Holy and Great Council of the Orthodox Church

The Orthodox Church, as the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, in her profound ecclesiastical self-consciousness, believes unflinchingly that she occupies a central place in the matter of the promotion of Christian unity in the world today.

www.holycouncil.org

As Biro posted in another thread, this misunderstanding seems to reoccur often here.

 

[LukeDM]

The actual statement is here:

Thanks for the clarification Opus!

 

[biro]

Christ did not come to give us thousands of denominations. Only one.

I still pray that the Holy Spirit will inspire the RCC and all others to come being Orthodox. Longshot, but I prayed for a bicycle and I got one this year, so...

 

[xariskai]

You can't run a proper airline unless you have passengers. You're heading to bankruptcy.
To proclaim a large scale unity without the knowledge most are with you is to proclaim a lie. Unity alone is a contradiction.
Unity of heart and mind is a good thing -the patriarch should make sure to achieve that with his own people first.

Patriarch Bartholomew, my patriarch, has, to the grief of everyone on all sides of the matter, already become involved in one major split; running headlong into another is at least a sign of not being actually unifying rather than being genuinely unifying.

You're not really "ecumenical " if you're not "unified" with the hearts and minds of the oecumene/οἰκουμένη at large -you're factionalizing, A factional patriarch would not be an ecumenical one in substance and truth but in name only. A sort of anti-patriarch.

In 1964, Pope Paul VI stressed that unity cannot be bought at the expense of truth, and that “compromise is in contradiction with God who is Truth.” Division if grounded in differences in good faith and conscience with respect to the truth he understood was a virtue, not a lack of charity. Having been first shown a unity of truth, and having further seen a unity of our own people, I will, in that case with everyone arm in arm beside me), be on this unity like a hobo on a ham sandwich, But even a hungry hobo wants to see what's in the sandwich before he eats it; he doesn't want your mystery meat.

 

[xariskai]

"Upon the successful conclusion of the work of any theological dialogue, the pan-Orthodox decision about the restoration of ecclesiastical communion must, however, rest on the unanimity of all the local Orthodox Churches."

+++

After Ukraine, though, who really knows what this patriarch might or might not do?

 

[biro]

What about the word "longshot" do you not understand?

 

[Serge]

It was politeness at an annual event, standard since Paul VI.