Pope Francis (RCC) on abuse scandal: "We abandoned the little ones"

biro

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https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/08/20/europe/pope-francis-letter-sexual-abuse-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
 

Volnutt

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Yes. Yes you did, sir.

You also seem to have lied about it before. Thus I don't trust you to be sincere now.


In the words of the illustrious Tyra Banks, "I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you."

 

Volnutt

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Asteriktos said:
Volnutt said:
Yes. Yes you did, sir.

You also seem to have lied about it before.
How did things proceed from there?
I don't think there really was a follow-up, just silence. I could be misinformed, though. At any rate, it indicates to me that this Pope is a deceiver. So, I can't really take today's statement as anything but crocodile tears.
 

Iconodule

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After lots of pressure he apologized for misreading the situation and jumping to conclusions, on the basis of insufficient evidence. He does not mention, in his apology, his receipt of the letter prior to his snap judgment in defense of Barros. So I'd say Volnutt's assessment is fair.
 

Asteriktos

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Sad. I had been dimly aware that he wasn't nearly active enough in backing up the claims about wanting to set things right, but I hadn't known about specific situations like that.
 

Jackson02

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Mor Ephrem said:
Jackson02 said:
Volnutt said:
Sad but true.
To be fair, all you'd have to do is change the vestments a bit and the same cartoon would be applicable to many Orthodox jurisdictions.
True, but it's not such a widespread problem. Something about the culture in Roman Catholicism breeds bad apples.
 

Mor Ephrem

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juliogb

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Mor Ephrem said:
Jackson02 said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Jackson02 said:
Volnutt said:
Sad but true.
To be fair, all you'd have to do is change the vestments a bit and the same cartoon would be applicable to many Orthodox jurisdictions.
True, but it's not such a widespread problem.
How do you know?

Well, we hadn't learn about a similar widespread paedophile and gay subculture in orthodox circles, probably there are isolated cases here and there, like in every other place of planet earth. I believe that certain cultural, pastoral, liturgical and social characteristics of the RCC, made it more atractive to homossexuals and paedophiles.

I will point some topics comparing western and eastern practices that in my view my play a role in the problem, just remembering that it is MY perception:

-In western liturgies, I noticed that sometimes there is one adult priest, 2 or 3 teenage acolytes and several younger altar boys in their child age; in the eastern tradition, there are more grown ups participating in the liturgy, wich can act as a deterrent of bad behavior.

-Lots of teenagers not fully sexually developed, with the typical hormonal storm inside the seminaries; in contrast with orthodox seminaries that have older and more mature seminarians, some of them married or engaged.

-The unified characteristic of the roman church also may contribute to the cover up culture, one scandal in the roman church stains the public image of everyone, the regular priest till the pope; the dispersed power structure of the orthodox church, her diverse ethnic backgrounds and relative autonomy of the patriarchates also may help to avoid the cover-up culture.


I wonder if the eastern catholics churches, melkites, maronites...have the same problem of their latin counterparts.


 

scamandrius

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Volnutt said:
Yes. Yes you did, sir.

You also seem to have lied about it before. Thus I don't trust you to be sincere now.


In the words of the illustrious Tyra Banks, "I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you."
Oh, no. So Pope Francis isn't your Messiah after all?
 

IXOYE

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juliogb said:
Well, we hadn't learn about a similar widespread paedophile and gay subculture in orthodox circles, probably there are isolated cases here and there, like in every other place of planet earth. I believe that certain cultural, pastoral, liturgical and social characteristics of the RCC, made it more atractive to homossexuals and paedophiles.

I will point some topics comparing western and eastern practices that in my view my play a role in the problem, just remembering that it is MY perception:

-In western liturgies, I noticed that sometimes there is one adult priest, 2 or 3 teenage acolytes and several younger altar boys in their child age; in the eastern tradition, there are more grown ups participating in the liturgy, wich can act as a deterrent of bad behavior.

-Lots of teenagers not fully sexually developed, with the typical hormonal storm inside the seminaries; in contrast with orthodox seminaries that have older and more mature seminarians, some of them married or engaged.

-The unified characteristic of the roman church also may contribute to the cover up culture, one scandal in the roman church stains the public image of everyone, the regular priest till the pope; the dispersed power structure of the orthodox church, her diverse ethnic backgrounds and relative autonomy of the patriarchates also may help to avoid the cover-up culture.


I wonder if the eastern catholics churches, melkites, maronites...have the same problem of their latin counterparts.
Interesting viewpoint.  You do raise a good question about Eastern Catholic Churches as well.
 

Volnutt

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scamandrius said:
Volnutt said:
Yes. Yes you did, sir.

You also seem to have lied about it before. Thus I don't trust you to be sincere now.


In the words of the illustrious Tyra Banks, "I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you."
Oh, no. So Pope Francis isn't your Messiah after all?
You assume that I ever thought he was. I was cautiously optimistic about how he'd handle sex abuse (just like I was about Pope JP II, actually), is all.
 

Deacon Lance

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juliogb said:
I wonder if the eastern catholics churches, melkites, maronites...have the same problem of their latin counterparts.
I don’t know about Europe and the Middle East, but sadly in America we were not immune.  Each of my Metropolia’s eparchies had a couple of cases a piece, the Melkites had one very recently.  There were two convictions in my Archeparchy.  One in the 80s and another just a couple of years ago, both were laicized.  Two other priests were laicized for having credible allegations but no cases brought against them.  The recent case was for possessing child porn, he hadn’t molested any children.  He had been a priest about a year. 
 

Asteriktos

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Jackson02 said:
Mor Ephrem said:
To be fair, all you'd have to do is change the vestments a bit and the same cartoon would be applicable to many Orthodox jurisdictions.
True, but it's not such a widespread problem. Something about the culture in Roman Catholicism breeds bad apples.
Hard to tell without an investigation, as long as things stay in the realm of anecdotal evidence. Lots of people have stories and haven't even said anything.
 

Volnutt

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Asteriktos said:
Jackson02 said:
Mor Ephrem said:
To be fair, all you'd have to do is change the vestments a bit and the same cartoon would be applicable to many Orthodox jurisdictions.
True, but it's not such a widespread problem. Something about the culture in Roman Catholicism breeds bad apples.
Hard to tell without an investigation, as long as things stay in the realm of anecdotal evidence.
You're not wrong, but that's also the kind of statement that abusers love to hide behind, not that you intended it that way of course. *Sigh*
 

Iconodule

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The Greek hierarchy in Jerusalem would probably come out very badly if an earnest and independent investigation were to happen there. Their contempt for their flock and for accountability almost guarantee it.
 
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