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Pope to consecrate Russia and Ukraine to Immaculate Heart of Mary

Deacon Lance

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Pope Francis will consecrate Russia and Ukraine to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on Friday, 25 March, during the Celebration of Penance that he will preside over at 5pm in St Peter's Basilica.

 

Dominika

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I don't know how to comment it... An absurd for Eastern (even for many Eastern Catholics, it depends of course) Christians from the dogmatic point of view. From the historical one (at least historically devotion to the Holy Theotokos was very high in those countries, I think Ukraine more). From the perspective which pope is going to do this (very controversial for some pope Francis).
 

Katechon

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This idea espoused in RC apparitionism that some kind of specific consecration rituals nobody prior even heard of will change the course of history is pretty occult in my book.
 

ialmisry

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Pope Francis will consecrate Russia and Ukraine to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on Friday, 25 March, during the Celebration of Penance that he will preside over at 5pm in St Peter's Basilica.

And who is going to give them to him to do anything with?

Has anyone told his pretend patriarch in Kiev? Their catechism claims that Ukraine (at least) was consecrated to the Holy Theotokos almost a millennium ago. But that was no doubt to the whole of her, not just one body part.
 

Claudius

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He might consider converting to Catholicism first. Even we Orthodox believe in and observe more of what's contained in the Catechism of Trent than the man currently wearing the Papal tiara appears to. At least this will finally put to rest the lingering doubts amongst some Catholics about whether JP2 consecrated Russia by inclusion in "the whole world" in 1984.
 

RaphaCam

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This idea espoused in RC apparitionism that some kind of specific consecration rituals nobody prior even heard of will change the course of history is pretty occult in my book.
This was actually a pretty important part of your country's history in a specific period...
 

Katechon

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PorphyriosK

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He might consider converting to Catholicism first. Even we Orthodox believe in and observe more of what's contained in the Catechism of Trent than the man currently wearing the Papal tiara appears to. At least this will finally put to rest the lingering doubts amongst some Catholics about whether JP2 consecrated Russia by inclusion in "the whole world" in 1984.
I don't think it will put to rest anything. I've already seen some RC comments doubting the validity of this new attempt because the pope will not be doing so in union with "all the bishops of the world", as the original instructions prescribed.
 

Mor Ephrem

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I don't think it will put to rest anything. I've already seen some RC comments doubting the validity of this new attempt because the pope will not be doing so in union with "all the bishops of the world", as the original instructions prescribed.
They're never able to do it as instructed. Or, rather, they don’t want to.
 

Claudius

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I don't think it will put to rest anything. I've already seen some RC comments doubting the validity of this new attempt because the pope will not be doing so in union with "all the bishops of the world", as the original instructions prescribed.
Interesting. I assumed since he announced consecrating Russia that he planned to do it properly. Then again, silly me, this is the same guy who calls "rigid" those Catholics who follow the Council of Trent faithfully and worship using a liturgy that predates the schism. The idea that carrying out a ritual correctly as written, or in this case as ordered by an apparition, could actually be important probably doesn't even compute for him.

Oh well, the doubts about Fatima will continue I guess.
 

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Interesting. I assumed since he announced consecrating Russia that he planned to do it properly. Then again, silly me, this is the same guy who calls "rigid" those Catholics who follow the Council of Trent faithfully and worship using a liturgy that predates the schism. The idea that carrying out a ritual correctly as written, or in this case as ordered by an apparition, could actually be important probably doesn't even compute for him.

Oh well, the doubts about Fatima will continue I guess.
I think the degree of dependency Trads have on the Fatima narrative cannot be underestimated.
 

Deacon Lance

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And who is going to give them to him to do anything with?

Has anyone told his pretend patriarch in Kiev? Their catechism claims that Ukraine (at least) was consecrated to the Holy Theotokos almost a millennium ago. But that was no doubt to the whole of her, not just one body part.
Archbishop Sviatoslav of Kyiv-Halych and the other bishops in fact requested it.

“This is a spiritual act long awaited by the people of Ukraine. Since the beginning of Russian aggression in 2014, Ukrainian Catholics have been urgently requesting this Act to prevent the worsening of the war and the dangers coming from Russia.”

 

Katechon

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Archbishop Sviatoslav of Kyiv-Halych and the other bishops in fact requested it.

“This is a spiritual act long awaited by the people of Ukraine. Since the beginning of Russian aggression in 2014, Ukrainian Catholics have been urgently requesting this Act to prevent the worsening of the war and the dangers coming from Russia.”

Dopey.
 

mcarmichael

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Is it like when St. Paul handed Hymenaeus and Alexander to Satan, to be taught not to blaspheme? Similar to an excommunication I think.
 
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ialmisry

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Archbishop Sviatoslav of Kyiv-Halych and the other bishops in fact requested it.
So they don't know their own catechism. OK.
“This is a spiritual act long awaited by the people of Ukraine. Since the beginning of Russian aggression in 2014, Ukrainian Catholics have been urgently requesting this Act to prevent the worsening of the war and the dangers coming from Russia.”

they would have done better to stop worsening the aggression from their own stronghold in the West against the rest of the country, before and after 2014, which started, continued and worsened the war.
 

Opus118

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they would have done better to stop worsening the aggression from their own stronghold in the West against the rest of the country, before and after 2014, which started, continued and worsened the war.
I can only guess what you are referring to here. And my guess suggests the blame lies elsewhere. I do not recall you being this cryptic in the past.
 

ialmisry

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I can only guess what you are referring to here. And my guess suggests the blame lies elsewhere. I do not recall you being this cryptic in the past.
To go into detail might be misconstrued as "politics." I could post in the politics section if you like, how the blame lies right where I located it.
 

melkite

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And who is going to give them to him to do anything with?

Has anyone told his pretend patriarch in Kiev? Their catechism claims that Ukraine (at least) was consecrated to the Holy Theotokos almost a millennium ago. But that was no doubt to the whole of her, not just one body part.
Pretend? Not canonical from your perspective, sure. But you don't have sole claim to the title of patriarch. Be an adult.
 

melkite

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This idea espoused in RC apparitionism that some kind of specific consecration rituals nobody prior even heard of will change the course of history is pretty occult in my book.
I generally don't agree with your Orthobro polemic style and some of the stances on issues it takes you to, but I agree completely here. Fatimism has become a cult unto itself. There are actually people out there saying that the pope should require bishops to participate under pain of excommunication. Excommunication over a private revelation that is not binding on the faithful? It's nuts, and shows how much Fatima and the purported apparitions are the actual cornerstone of their faith.
 

TheTrisagion

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I don't know what this means, but I hope it makes him happy.
 

Luke

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I don't know what it will accomplish. /shrug
 

Xavier

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The Pope - but my heart is for Re-Union!
Let us Pray for Peace in Russia and Ukraine.
 

RaphaCam

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I don't know what you mean.
The Fatima message was huge in gathering popular support for Operation Barbarossa. Sometimes these things happen with old prophecies. Brazil had two civil wars for prophecies a shoeman wrote four centuries before. Most Iranian geopolitics is centered on Muhammad al-Mahdi coming back. Even Greeks are growingly interested in what St. Paisios had to say.
 

Katechon

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The Fatima message was huge in gathering popular support for Operation Barbarossa.
That's new to me. To my knowledge the supposed messages (or "secrets") were written down only in the 1940s by Sr Lucia, effectively rendering the "prophecies" therein useless.
 

RaphaCam

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That's new to me. To my knowledge the supposed messages (or "secrets") were written down only in the 1940s by Sr Lucia, effectively rendering the "prophecies" therein useless.
The consecration of Russia was already being thrown around before.
 

Deacon Lance

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“Heaven’s desire for the consecration of Russia to The Immaculate Heart of Mary was completely satisfied on March 25, 1984. Sister Lucia confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished at that time as well as later on when she wrote in a letter dated November 8, 1989: “Yes, it has been done just as Our Lady asked on March 25, 1984.”

 

Glyphwright

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Glyphwright, politics is not permitted in Christian News. You are receiving 100 points for 2 weeks. Feel free to appeal via PM. Thanks. --Ainnir
Ironically, even if they did everything exactly as instructed, the Fatima apparition's alleged request would still remain unfulfilled, because bergoglio is not the pope.

Nevertheless, I can't wait for tradcat takes on this. Is the consecration invalid because he's including Ukraine? Is it invalid because it does not include "all the world's bishops", which is impossible? Is it simply too late, and the warning was there solely to prevent WWII, and since it happened anyway, rUSSRia will continue what it's doing until it causes WWIII?
 

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I understand Pope Francis' desire to do something but given the ecumenical issues at play here wouldn't it make more sense to entrust Russia and Ukraine to the protection of the Theotokos anew without the immaculate heart bit?
 

Katechon

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“Heaven’s desire for the consecration of Russia to The Immaculate Heart of Mary was completely satisfied on March 25, 1984. Sister Lucia confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished at that time as well as later on when she wrote in a letter dated November 8, 1989: “Yes, it has been done just as Our Lady asked on March 25, 1984.”

You forgot the angle where Sr Lucia was replaced by a body double at some point, thus discarding her apparent affirmation.
 
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