Pope to consecrate Russia and Ukraine to Immaculate Heart of Mary

[melkite]

The Vatican knew about the genocide and refused to condemn the Croats in fear of a schism. They also allowed Croatian war criminals to come to Rome and protected them from the international courts.

That was debunked a long time ago.

 

[melkite]

He who claims to be first Shall be Last,, who is the only one to Enthrone a Bishop, Long liv the Ukrainians Orthodox Church, Grow up with them brother,,,

I'm not Ukrainian.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

Your top dude does, though. That's pretty consequential.

I'm OCA.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

That was debunked a long time ago.

By whom?

 

[TheTrisagion]

That was debunked a long time ago.

Really? What happened to Ante Pavelic after the war?

 

[melkite]

By whom?

Maybe we're talking about different people, but the one I'm thinking of was Carla del Ponte's accusation about 15 years ago that the Vatican had Croat war criminals in hiding in some monastery in or near the Vatican, and then come to find out they had been in Croatia and Bosnia all along.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

Maybe we're talking about different people, but the one I'm thinking of was Carla del Ponte's accusation about 15 years ago that the Vatican had Croat war criminals in hiding in some monastery in or near the Vatican, and then come to find out they had been in Croatia and Bosnia all along.

I'm talking in general. There were ratlines going to Rome in the 40s.

 

[melkite]

I'm OCA.

Ok, top dude in the MP. It's still different from a couple higher-level Vatican officials supporting evil. It isn't simply a few people in the patriarchal synod supporting evil.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

Ok, top dude in the MP. It's still different from a couple higher-level Vatican officials supporting evil. It isn't simply a few people in the patriarchal synod supporting evil.

As if the war in Ukraine can possibly compare to the extermination of Serbs by the Utaše.

 

[melkite]

As if the war in Ukraine can possibly compare to the extermination of Serbs by the Utaše.

I don't know enough about what happened then to know if there is a good comparison or not. If there's not, I don't think it becomes wrong to call out what Russia is doing as plain evil. The Croats exterminated Serbs. So did the Serbs exterminate Croats. Same with the 4th Crusade. "The Latins sacked Constantinople! How dare they do this to their brother Christians?!?" And that happened, what, a few decades after the Greeks of Constantinople massacred the Latins there? These are just distractions from whatever the real issue at hand is at any given moment, and only serve to make it look like an evil occurring isn't as evil as it seems, because reasons. What does the Vatican hiding or not hiding Croat war criminals have anything to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the MP's support of it, and how to quantify the morality of it or lack thereof?

 

[Deacon Lance]

I don't know enough about what happened then to know if there is a good comparison or not. If there's not, I don't think it becomes wrong to call out what Russia is doing as plain evil. The Croats exterminated Serbs. So did the Serbs exterminate Croats. Same with the 4th Crusade. "The Latins sacked Constantinople! How dare they do this to their brother Christians?!?" And that happened, what, a few decades after the Greeks of Constantinople massacred the Latins there? These are just distractions from whatever the real issue at hand is at any given moment, and only serve to make it look like an evil occurring isn't as evil as it seems, because reasons. What does the Vatican hiding or not hiding Croat war criminals have anything to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the MP's support of it, and how to quantify the morality of it or lack thereof?

Nothing. It is deflection.

 

[Deacon Lance]

As if the war in Ukraine can possibly compare to the extermination of Serbs by the Utaše.

Because being bombed in a shelter is better than being shot in a camp? Let’s hope Ukrainian numbers don’t rise to those of the Serbs.

 

[PorphyriosK]

I don't know enough about what happened then to know if there is a good comparison or not. If there's not, I don't think it becomes wrong to call out what Russia is doing as plain evil.

There are videos circulating of Russian pow's being tortured to death by Ukrainian nazi troops. They afterwards urinated on them and took photos of their corpses and texted the pics to the wives and relatives of the dead. There are also videos of captured Russian soldiers being crucified and burned alive. Will you call out the plain evil on the side of Ukraine?

 

[Deacon Lance]

There are videos circulating of Russian pow's being tortured to death by Ukrainian nazi troops. They afterwards urinated on them and took photos of their corpses and texted the pics to the wives and relatives of the dead. There are also videos of captured Russian soldiers being crucified and burned alive. Will you call out the plain evil on the side of Ukraine?

And these are verified by a third party?

 

[LizaSymonenko]

There are videos circulating of Russian pow's being tortured to death by Ukrainian nazi troops. They afterwards urinated on them and took photos of their corpses and texted the pics to the wives and relatives of the dead. There are also videos of captured Russian soldiers being crucified and burned alive. Will you call out the plain evil on the side of Ukraine?

There is also a video being circulated of Pres. Zelynsky telling the Ukrainians to give up the fight, and saying goodbye as he is surrendering.

ALL FAKE.
Don't believe everything you see... from either side actually.

...and after all is said and done... no matter what Ukraine is accused of... Ukraine is not the one that invaded a free nation... that started a war, after signing an agreement to not invade the country.

 

[melkite]

There are videos circulating of Russian pow's being tortured to death by Ukrainian nazi troops. They afterwards urinated on them and took photos of their corpses and texted the pics to the wives and relatives of the dead. There are also videos of captured Russian soldiers being crucified and burned alive. Will you call out the plain evil on the side of Ukraine?

If it's true, sure. There's also pictures of leaked Russian orders circulating commanding Russian officers to pretend to be Ukrainian soldiers, go in and stage the videos to look like Russian POWs are being tortured, for obvious propaganda purposes. I have a feeling, though, that many Orthodox linked to the Russian church would NEVER believe these could possibly be fake....

 

[Opus118]

There are videos circulating of Russian pow's being tortured to death by Ukrainian nazi troops. They afterwards urinated on them and took photos of their corpses and texted the pics to the wives and relatives of the dead. There are also videos of captured Russian soldiers being crucified and burned alive. Will you call out the plain evil on the side of Ukraine?

I did not see anything about this in TASS, but it did show up in RFERL. It is being investigated by the Ukrainian government and they were prosecute the perpetrators if it proves to be true.

Ukraine To Investigate Reports Of War Crimes Against Russian Troops

Ukraine says it will investigate unverified reports that its soldiers tortured Russian troops captured in the fighting as a result of Moscow's invasion.

www.rferl.org

 

[ialmisry]

That was debunked a long time ago.

You misspelled "confirmed."

 

[ialmisry]

There is also a video being circulated of Pres. Zelynsky telling the Ukrainians to give up the fight, and saying goodbye as he is surrendering.

ALL FAKE.
Don't believe everything you see... from either side actually.

...and after all is said and done... no matter what Ukraine is accused of... Ukraine is not the one that invaded a free nation... that started a war, after signing an agreement to not invade the country.

Ukraine was not a free state, and, having tossed its Constitution in pursuit of non-freedom, has no agreement with it.

 

[ialmisry]

Nothing. It is deflection.

No, it is being on guard. There was an agenda then. They are pursuing an agenda now.

 

[ialmisry]

Ok, top dude in the MP. It's still different from a couple higher-level Vatican officials supporting evil. It isn't simply a few people in the patriarchal synod supporting evil.

You don' t know your own rule book."The Roman Pontiff, by virtue of his office (munus), not only has power over the entire Church but also possesses a primacy of ordinary power over all the eparchies and groupings of them by which the proper, ordinary and immediate power which bishops possess in the eparchy entrusted to their care is both strengthened and safeguarded. The Roman Pontiff, in fulfilling the office (munus) of the supreme pastor of the Church...has the right, according to the needs of the Church, to determine the manner, either personal or collegial, of exercising this function. There is neither appeal nor recourse against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.

In exercising his office (munus) the Roman Pontiff is assisted by the bishops who aid him in various ways and among these is the synod of bishops; moreover the cardinals, the Roman curia, pontifical legates and other persons and various institutes assist him according to the needs of the times; all these persons and institutes carry out the task committed to them in his name and by his authority for the good of all the Churches,

In this Code the term "Apostolic See" or "Holy See" applies not only to the Roman Pontiff but also, unless it is otherwise prescribed by the law or the nature of the matter indicates otherwise, dicasteries and other institutes of the Roman curia."
Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium

Btw, this is the "top dude" in the MP

 

[Sethrak]

I'm not Ukrainian.

Didn't think you were,,,

 

[Glyphwright]

Btw, this is the "top dude" in the MP

Should be a portrait of Putin.

 

[RaphaCam]

Depends on the degree of success. All I am supposing is that Roman Catholics who awaken to the false doctrine of their papacy will have a much easier time converting to Orthodoxy if there is one, concrete, visible and prominent Latin Orthodox Church, as opposed to a smattering of WR parishes under various jurisdictions, with a large number of Orthodox pseudo-purists dismissing them as "not real Orthodox" to boot.

Roman Catholics themselves were much better organized in this regard over the centuries, which is why they have a parallel church structure to almost every Eastern and Oriental autocephalous church, with practically the same rite, language, traditions, patriarchal titles, etc.

Yeah, but I think some people overestimate this a lot.

 

[Eamonomae]

And these are verified by a third party?

How does one fake videos like that? Talk about conspiracy-theory level burden shifting

By the way, denying the Azov Batallion's existence is not very Jesus like imo.

 

[RaphaCam]

How does one fake videos like that? Talk about conspiracy-theory level burden shifting

By the way, denying the Azov Batallion's existence is not very Jesus like imo.

If Latin American hadn't been sabotaged to the point of sociopathic lawlessness just like Eastern Europe was, maybe I'd have a hard time believing these things are real too. We should all be so grateful to be the periphery of the West!

 

[Sethrak]

You including the Universalist Unitarians in on that?

Don't know who they are

 

[Deacon Lance]

How does one fake videos like that? Talk about conspiracy-theory level burden shifting

By the way, denying the Azov Batallion's existence is not very Jesus like imo.

Easily. Putin has been lying since from before the invasion but now he is telling the truth? Take the blinders off man.

Who denies Azov Batallion? On the other hand, Putin denies any connection to Wagner Group, neo-Nazi, neo-pagan mercs Putin feels no shame in using. Wake up.

 

[PorphyriosK]

And these are verified by a third party?

I have a feeling, though, that many Orthodox linked to the Russian church would NEVER believe these could possibly be fake....

As if those here who have despised the Russian church and the MP for years hold no bias at all when discussing this conflict.
By the way it appears NYT has confirmed they are real. Not that I have the least bit of respect for that institution.

 

[PorphyriosK]

Easily. Putin has been lying since from before the invasion but now he is telling the truth? Take the blinders off man.

Who denies Azov Batallion? On the other hand, Putin denies any connection to Wagner Group, neo-Nazi, neo-pagan mercs Putin feels no shame in using. Wake up.

Western lies and hypocrisy apparently don't exist in your world. Joe Biden has been lying about his financial ties in Ukraine for years, as has Hilary Clinton. The Western powers and oligarchs would rather start WWII with Russia than have their lies and corruption exposed. Wake up.

 

[Deacon Lance]

Western lies and hypocrisy apparently don't exist in your world. Joe Biden has been lying about his financial ties in Ukraine for years, as has Hilary Clinton. The Western powers and oligarchs would rather start WWII with Russia than have their lies and corruption exposed. Wake up.

I never said that. Quit deflecting. Putin lied. Saying he wasn’t going to invade Ukraine. He invaded. And has been lying ever since. Wake up.

 

[ialmisry]

Should be a portrait of Putin.

No, Putin answers to Him.

 

[melkite]

As if those here who have despised the Russian church and the MP for years hold no bias at all when discussing this conflict.
By the way it appears NYT has confirmed they are real. Not that I have the least bit of respect for that institution.

If Ukrainians are really doing it, I have no reservations condemning it.

 

[PorphyriosK]

I never said that. Quit deflecting. Putin lied. Saying he wasn’t going to invade Ukraine. He invaded. And has been lying ever since. Wake up.

Imagine this: Texas secedes and becomes an independent nation. After some time, Russia and/or China sponsor a coup and install a pro-East, anti-American Texas president, while simultaneously expanding their missile systems into other nearby countries (Cuban crisis 2.0). Then imagine the Mexican government starts using thugs to punish and persecute sections of Texas that remain pro-American. What in your mind would a US president likely do in that situation?

Again, a "just war" hardly ever exists in reality, given the evil nature of war. I am not saying this war is justified. All I'm asking is how Putin's actions are any more more grievous and evil than what our own American presidents have already done in the past and would likely do given a similar scenario? How can you continue to insist this whole thing was completely "unprovoked" by any hint of Western aggression?

 

[melkite]

Imagine this: Texas secedes and becomes an independent nation. After some time, Russia and/or China sponsor a coup and install a pro-East, anti-American Texas president, while simultaneously expanding their missile systems into other nearby countries (Cuban crisis 2.0). Then imagine the Mexican government starts using thugs to punish and persecute sections of Texas that remain pro-American. What in your mind would a US president likely do in that situation?

Again, a "just war" hardly ever exists in reality, given the evil nature of war. I am not saying this war is justified. All I'm asking is how Putin's actions are any more more grievous and evil than what our own American presidents have already done in the past and would likely do given a similar scenario? How can you continue to insist this whole thing was completely "unprovoked" by any hint of Western aggression?

In order for that analogy to fit, imagine California, New York and Illinois exterminated half of Texas' population by starvation prior to its secession. Then CA, NY, and IL took some of the survivors and "repatriated" them to Alaska. CA, NY and IL then send in their own people to repopulate, and force the remaining native Texans to speak in California or New York dialect. Schools cannot teach in Texas dialect; students and teachers are punished if they do. Severe infractions result in being sent to Alaska, or just disappearing in the middle of the night. As a 5 year old, Gov. Abbott saw his father for the last time because he spoke an ill word about California just a little too loudly around undercover LAPD working in Wichita Falls.

Then, Texas secedes. Because of its treatment by CA, NY and IL over the previous 50 years, an intense hatred of those states develops. Even though Texas is separate, CA manages to get a very pro-CA governor elected, under serious doubt of the election's legitimacy. Texans are beyond pissed, and whether or not China has ulterior motives in its involvement, the Texans are all-too-willing to participate in a coup because they despise California and everything it stands for. "Yeah, CA: China wants to set up missiles in our back yard and point them at you? We ain't got no problem with that. Why? Because f*** you, that's why. Tell us again why we should give a flying horse's sh** about your security concerns after everything you've done to us." China probably has their own interests and doesn't specifically care for the plight of Texans, but as long as China's enemy is Texas' enemy, they don't mind being used a little.

 

[PorphyriosK]

In order for that analogy to fit, imagine California, New York and Illinois exterminated half of Texas' population by starvation prior to its secession. Then CA, NY, and IL took some of the survivors and "repatriated" them to Alaska. CA, NY and IL then send in their own people to repopulate, and force the remaining native Texans to speak in California or New York dialect. Schools cannot teach in Texas dialect; students and teachers are punished if they do. Severe infractions result in being sent to Alaska, or just disappearing in the middle of the night. As a 5 year old, Gov. Abbott saw his father for the last time because he spoke an ill word about California just a little too loudly around undercover LAPD working in Wichita Falls.

Then, Texas secedes. Because of its treatment by CA, NY and IL over the previous 50 years, an intense hatred of those states develops. Even though Texas is separate, CA manages to get a very pro-CA governor elected, under serious doubt of the election's legitimacy. Texans are beyond pissed, and whether or not China has ulterior motives in its involvement, the Texans are all-too-willing to participate in a coup because they despise California and everything it stands for. "Yeah, CA: China wants to set up missiles in our back yard and point them at you? We ain't got no problem with that. Why? Because f*** you, that's why. Tell us again why we should give a flying horse's sh** about your security concerns after everything you've done to us." China probably has their own interests and doesn't specifically care for the plight of Texans, but as long as China's enemy is Texas' enemy, they don't mind being used a little.

You're talking about the atrocities of the Soviet Union. Yeah, the Russians suffered under that regime too, remember? Millions of Russian Orthodox martyrs.

 

[RaphaCam]

Easily. Putin has been lying since from before the invasion but now he is telling the truth? Take the blinders off man.

If Putin says "I'm lying right now", reality explodes.

 

[ialmisry]

In order for that analogy to fit, imagine California, New York and Illinois exterminated half of Texas' population by starvation prior to its secession. Then CA, NY, and IL took some of the survivors and "repatriated" them to Alaska. CA, NY and IL then send in their own people to repopulate, and force the remaining native Texans to speak in California or New York dialect. Schools cannot teach in Texas dialect; students and teachers are punished if they do. Severe infractions result in being sent to Alaska, or just disappearing in the middle of the night. As a 5 year old, Gov. Abbott saw his father for the last time because he spoke an ill word about California just a little too loudly around undercover LAPD working in Wichita Falls.

Then, Texas secedes. Because of its treatment by CA, NY and IL over the previous 50 years, an intense hatred of those states develops. Even though Texas is separate, CA manages to get a very pro-CA governor elected, under serious doubt of the election's legitimacy. Texans are beyond pissed, and whether or not China has ulterior motives in its involvement, the Texans are all-too-willing to participate in a coup because they despise California and everything it stands for. "Yeah, CA: China wants to set up missiles in our back yard and point them at you? We ain't got no problem with that. Why? Because f*** you, that's why. Tell us again why we should give a flying horse's sh** about your security concerns after everything you've done to us." China probably has their own interests and doesn't specifically care for the plight of Texans, but as long as China's enemy is Texas' enemy, they don't mind being used a little.

No, that analogy does not fit. For one, it would need for a substantial number of Texans to starve the population along with the Californians, New Yorkers and Ilinoisians. Only the Alaskans in Alaska would be taken, and because of any linkage to their kin in Siberia who had invaded CA, NY and IL and still pose problems with central authority, as their kin have joined up with the Warsaw Pact. The remainder speak General American because while speaking Texan in Texas you can get along, anything of a country wide scale requires General American to get ahead (something which is, in fact, happening in Texas, btw). Some CA, NY and IL folk settle in Texas, but not on a scale to upset the balance, as CA, NY and IL people formed a substantial part of the population before the starvation (and plenty of them starved too, besides the starvation in CA, NY and IL going on at the same time).

Your comment about schools is way off. Texan was not banned, but competed at a disadvantage to General American. Particularly as Texans is spoken among the rural, whereas General American has long been spoken in the cities and industrial areas.

People disappeared all over CA, NY and IL too. That it happened only in Texas to Texans is wishful thinking.

A very pro-CA president gets elected, in a universally accepted election, because many Texans (like 77%) like Californians-to the point that 2% have CA passports, although Texas bans that. A group connected with the KKK, however, despise CA because their Texan identify depends on hating CA. They get in bed with the China and get used A LOT, dump their president with their Constitution, and proceed to try to eliminate the CA, NY and IL population in Texas along with the Texans who love them. CA, NY and IL invade, and quelle surprise! China stands by watching its enemy and its slut kill each other.

 

[ialmisry]

You're talking about the atrocities of the Soviet Union. Yeah, the Russians suffered under that regime too, remember? Millions of Russian Orthodox martyrs.

The agenda requires Russian=Soviet, and no such thing as a Ukrainian Soviet. That last being quite a problem as

 

[melkite]

No, that analogy does not fit. For one, it would need for a substantial number of Texans to starve the population along with the Californians, New Yorkers and Ilinoisians. Only the Alaskans in Alaska would be taken, and because of any linkage to their kin in Siberia who had invaded CA, NY and IL and still pose problems with central authority, as their kin have joined up with the Warsaw Pact. The remainder speak General American because while speaking Texan in Texas you can get along, anything of a country wide scale requires General American to get ahead (something which is, in fact, happening in Texas, btw). Some CA, NY and IL folk settle in Texas, but not on a scale to upset the balance, as CA, NY and IL people formed a substantial part of the population before the starvation (and plenty of them starved too, besides the starvation in CA, NY and IL going on at the same time).

Your comment about schools is way off. Texan was not banned, but competed at a disadvantage to General American. Particularly as Texans is spoken among the rural, whereas General American has long been spoken in the cities and industrial areas.

People disappeared all over CA, NY and IL too. That it happened only in Texas to Texans is wishful thinking.

A very pro-CA president gets elected, in a universally accepted election, because many Texans (like 77%) like Californians-to the point that 2% have CA passports, although Texas bans that. A group connected with the KKK, however, despise CA because their Texan identify depends on hating CA. They get in bed with the China and get used A LOT, dump their president with their Constitution, and proceed to try to eliminate the CA, NY and IL population in Texas along with the Texans who love them. CA, NY and IL invade, and quelle surprise! China stands by watching its enemy and its slut kill each other.

That sounds a lot like how California Today would spin it.