Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church

ialmisry

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lubeltri said:
I'm unfortunately all-too-familiar with the Episcopal Divinity School near Harvard Square in Cambridge.

The new "abortion is a blessing" rector has been quite the talk of the town lately:



A Harvard friend not long ago directed me to their course catalog. An example of one of the courses in their Theology department:

T 3150 Queer Incarnation

The incarnation is sometimes presented as an arithmetic problem: What do you get when you add some divinity to a human body? But thinking about incarnation has to start much further back, in the realization that accounts of Jesus show us how little we understand about either divinity or bodies, much less about how bodies can show, act, and becomes divine. Just here and theology of the incarnation can learn from works of queer theory and the writings of queer thinkers. The body of Jesus - despised, de-sexed, and yet miraculously distrubuted - invites us to an exchange of bodies along the margins of human power and its certainties. We will think about the queerness of Jesus' body with the help of some traditional texts on incarnation and passion (Athanasius, Bonaventure, Aquinas, Julian) and much more recent work on gender performance, bodily transition or transformation, and the rituals of camp.

That last phrase made me laugh.
Ah, opting out of crying I see.

Notice how those most against "patriarchy" always wear their dog collar?
 

Alveus Lacuna

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lubeltri said:
T 3150 Queer Incarnation

The incarnation is sometimes presented as an arithmetic problem: What do you get when you add some divinity to a human body? But thinking about incarnation has to start much further back, in the realization that accounts of Jesus show us how little we understand about either divinity or bodies, much less about how bodies can show, act, and becomes divine. Just here and theology of the incarnation can learn from works of queer theory and the writings of queer thinkers. The body of Jesus - despised, de-sexed, and yet miraculously distrubuted - invites us to an exchange of bodies along the margins of human power and its certainties. We will think about the queerness of Jesus' body with the help of some traditional texts on incarnation and passion (Athanasius, Bonaventure, Aquinas, Julian) and much more recent work on gender performance, bodily transition or transformation, and the rituals of camp.
This is like a nightmare.  What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?
 

ialmisry

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Alveus Lacuna said:
lubeltri said:
T 3150 Queer Incarnation

The incarnation is sometimes presented as an arithmetic problem: What do you get when you add some divinity to a human body? But thinking about incarnation has to start much further back, in the realization that accounts of Jesus show us how little we understand about either divinity or bodies, much less about how bodies can show, act, and becomes divine. Just here and theology of the incarnation can learn from works of queer theory and the writings of queer thinkers. The body of Jesus - despised, de-sexed, and yet miraculously distrubuted - invites us to an exchange of bodies along the margins of human power and its certainties. We will think about the queerness of Jesus' body with the help of some traditional texts on incarnation and passion (Athanasius, Bonaventure, Aquinas, Julian) and much more recent work on gender performance, bodily transition or transformation, and the rituals of camp.
This is like a nightmare.  What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?
DON'T ANSWER. :eek:
 

ialmisry

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Alveus Lacuna said:
monkvasyl said:
The new head of the Episcopal Divinity School, in Cambridge, MA, is a lesbian, who is quoted as saying, "Abortion is a blessing."  The article appeared in a recent issue of The Boston Phoenix, a newspaper I only use to line the floor, for my beagles, while I'm at work.  I think I still have a copy if anyone is interested in starting a new topic.  Its an eye opener.
Thank you for sharing this.  Some of my fellow students and co-workers in my secular, state-sponsored Religious Studies program are Episcopalians.  This reflects the attitudes of every single one of these individuals.  One such student plans to attend a theological seminary in California after completing her master's degree, as it has always been her dream to be a priestess.  She left the Roman Catholic Church several years ago to be able to fulfill this dream.

When these people found out I was becoming Orthodox, their reaction was less than enthusiastic.  They see the Orthodox Church as even more backwards than the Roman Catholic Church; still being light years away from championing the rights of women.  They are right in many ways, but whatever good intentions they may have, they are primarily social activists.  Seekers of a pious life seems to be at the bottom of their list of priorities.
Funny you should say that: the site I got the picture from has this wisdom that dreweled out of you know who's mouth:
Spong has learned much since those days, having talked to psychologists to investigate the cause and root of homosexuality and over time firmly feels that a gay lifestyle is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of God. Why do Christian Churches teach that homosexuality is wrong? “Prejudice and ignorance distorts a person’s mind,” Spong suggests. If you feel that way towards gay people, “your faith is simply window dressing over your prejudism,” he said.
http://www.stjoan.com/er7/spong/spong.htm

Just change that to:Why do liberal Christian Churches teach that homosexuality, abortion etc. are right? “Pride, libertinsim, ignorance and leftist social activism distorts a person’s mind,” If you feel that way towards traditionalist and conservative people, “your faith is simply window dressing over your prejudism and leftist activism."

Btw, our priest was once candidate for Episcopal bishop: he was black balled for one thing because he reaffirmed his belief in the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves.  He had reviewed the candidates for the priesthood at an Episcopal seminary. He found the only candidate worthy was a woman.  She ended up Orthodox though, the wife of our first priest.  Memory Eternal Khouriya April!
 

Ebor

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SDMPNS said:
Some of the most highly educated and well read clergy I have ever known were Episcopalian..we would do well to emulate their system of education in our Orthodox seminaries..
Thank you for your charity, SDMPNS
 

lubeltri

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I concur that an authentically Anglican seminary education is excellent. Bishop N.T. Wright is a shining example of this record.

It goes without saying that the Episcopal Divinity School is operated by impostors.
 

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Its posted in the news he's married to her now...
Are congrats and many years in order now.....
 

Ebor

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Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
 

stashko

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I rather see him this way married,,, than him still being a Catholic priest and continuing by having a hidden love affair....


So yes he has my congrats and many many years to him and his bride.....
 

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ChristusDominus said:
Abortion is a blessing? I would sure hate to be in her shoes on Judgement Day.

Will we have shoes on, on Judgement Day? ....hmm :-\
Maybe not on Judgement, but in Heaven? Yes, says the old Negro Spiritual:
  I got shoes, you got shoes
  All God's children got shoes.
  When I get to Heaven gonna put on my shoes,
  Gonna walk all over God's Heaven, Heaven, Heaven.
  Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven, ain't going there, Heaven,
      Heaven,
  Gonna walk all over God's Heaven.
 

ialmisry

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Ebor said:
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?

This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....
 

ChristusDominus

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Jetavan said:
ChristusDominus said:
Abortion is a blessing? I would sure hate to be in her shoes on Judgement Day.

Will we have shoes on, on Judgement Day? ....hmm :-\
Maybe not on Judgement, but in Heaven? Yes, says the old Negro Spiritual:
   I got shoes, you got shoes
   All God's children got shoes.
   When I get to Heaven gonna put on my shoes,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven, Heaven, Heaven.
   Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven, ain't going there, Heaven,
      Heaven,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven.
I'm tapping my foot :)
 

Alveus Lacuna

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ialmisry said:
This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterward), chances aren't good...
Great analogy!  I never would have thought of referring to this union as feces with the potential for positive outgrowth.  Cheers!  :D
 

ialmisry

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lubeltri said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?
Still waiting...  ;D
The High Priestess of the Church of Camp:



Some of her disciples:



In this religion there is only one commandment:

Be Fabulous.
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.
 

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Alveus Lacuna said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?
Still waiting...  ;D
The closest I will come to defining "camp" is to use the example of 2 TV series:  Batman & Dark Shadows.  Batman was just so silly and over the top and Dark Shadows (a show I loved as a child...still do) is considered camp due to its over exaggerated acting...like Grayson Hall as Dr. Hoffman.  I remember when Pope John Paul II came to San Francisco, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, leas a protest against His Holiness.  What an embarrassment to the USA.
 

Alveus Lacuna

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This was taken from the Episcopal Divinity School website:

The curriculum and course listings at Episcopal Divinity School are structured around the seven theological disciplines, the canonical areas required of candidates for ordination in the Episcopal Church: Biblical, Historical, Liturgical, Theological, Ethical, Pastoral, and Studies in Contemporary Society. In addition, EDS emphasizes throughout the curriculum three particular Areas of Emphasis, which intersect these seven theological disciplines and each other: Anglican, Global, and Ecumenical Studies (AGE); Congregational Studies (CSt); and Studies in Feminist Liberation Theologies (FLT). Together they promote an integrated theological education that is rooted in local communities of faith, committed to liberatory praxis, and critically engaged with global and ecumenical issues.
That really says it all.  This is more about political activism than the traditional gospel of Christ.

Their course listing is unreal:

http://www.eds.edu/sec.asp?pageID=88

Third World Feminist Theology

Transforming Mission: Towards a Post-Modern Missiology

Liberating Jesus

Eros, Sexuality, and the Spirit

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction
 

lubeltri

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Alveus Lacuna said:
Their course listing is unreal:

http://www.eds.edu/sec.asp?pageID=88

Third World Feminist Theology

Transforming Mission: Towards a Post-Modern Missiology

Liberating Jesus

Eros, Sexuality, and the Spirit

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction
Consider the description of Liberating Jesus: "Retreat-style introduction to feminist, womanist, postcolonial, and other christologies of liberation."

Sounds more like my postmodern theorist-dominated English department at uni than anything bearing resemblance to Christianity.

Another... Feminist Theories and Theologizing:

"This course introduces the student to varieties of feminist theories and theorists, e.g. liberal feminism, radical feminism, Marxist feminism, postcolonial feminism, womanist theorists, and Asian-American feminism, in order to provide a theoretical foundation for theologizing on behalf of women. This course fulfills the "feminist theory" requirement for the MATS student concentrating in FLT."


All of this smacks of a desperate desire to appear as trendy as possible to secularist progressive circles.

Of course, the following is the most fashionable "cause" of all right now:

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :eek:] society."
 

ialmisry

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lubeltri said:
ialmisry said:
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.
Totally fabulous!  ;)
Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
 

Jetavan

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ialmisry said:
lubeltri said:
ialmisry said:
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.
Totally fabulous!  ;)
Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
It's complicated.
 

ialmisry

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Jetavan said:
ialmisry said:
lubeltri said:
ialmisry said:
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.
Totally fabulous!  ;)
Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
It's complicated.
I'm sure it is.  Personally I've always thought of myself as a lesbian trapped in a man's body. :p
 

Alveus Lacuna

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lubeltri said:
Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :eek:] society."
Things are moving in their direction.  Gay marriage is inevitable, then polygamy, then consensual bestiality.  OK, maybe not the last one.  I really don't see things as being increasingly "repressive."  Traditional Christian values are out; "progressive" "values" are all the rage.

Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.
 

ialmisry

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Alveus Lacuna said:
lubeltri said:
Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :eek:] society."
Things are moving in their direction.  Gay marriage is inevitable, then polygamy, then consensual bestiality.  OK, maybe not the last one. 
You mean you don't need Bambi's consent. :eek:

Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.
Don't worry.

They will.
 

Ebor

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ialmisry said:
Ebor said:
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?
If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.

This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....
I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.

As a side note, none of the people or characters in the pictures are Anglican, though I suppose some might be RC. So while lurid they don't seem to have any application to the topic.


Ebor
 

Ebor

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monkvasyl said:
I attending a RC seminary before becoming Orthodox back in the late 70's...Minor seminaries were already a thing of the past. 
My friend was RC back in the 50s and 60s. Thank you for the information that the minor seminaries are not around any more.  It was my friend's thought that a boy being in such a situation during the adolescent and young adult years in effect kept some in an emotionally immature state so that they could not relate to others as adult males once they were ordained and given parishes. 
 

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Ebor said:
ialmisry said:
Ebor said:
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?
If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.
Do you see any repenting going on?  I seem to have missed it.


Ebor said:
ialmisry said:
This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....
I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.
No, if he had shut up, there might have been a point there. But it seems he is out to prove something, so no, when he went on to announce his defection to the Anglicans and scandalize the flock, no doubt is extended.
 

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Well, since neither of us is privy to his personal conversations, confessions or thoughts, I'm not going to make any assumptions on another person's mind, heart or soul.  If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right. 

A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...  May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
 

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Ebor said:
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
True...I wonder what this priest's congregation is thinking right now.
 

ialmisry

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Ebor said:
Well, since neither of us is privy to his personal conversations, confessions or thoughts, I'm not going to make any assumptions on another person's mind, heart or soul. 
He got in front of a microphone, before a camera, and opened his mouth.  You have a right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you....

(for our non-American friends:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_right#Typical_usage
(btw, Miranda was as guilty as sin, and after a life of crime before and after Mirada v. Arizona)
On January 31, 1976, a violent fight broke out and Miranda received a mortal knife wound; he was pronounced dead on arrival at Good Samaritan Hospital. He was 34 years old. Police officers apprehended a male shortly afterwards and read him his Miranda rights from a small rectangular card. However, the suspect refused to cooperate with police and took advantage of his right to remain silent. According to one source, Miranda's killer could not be prosecuted because he fled to Mexico

If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right.
Or try to cover up the scandal.

Would ECUSA accept him if he didn't marry the woman?

Why didn't he ask for release to marry, before he was caught?

A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
I'm beginning to see the Vatican line on Henry VIII
 

ialmisry

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Dismas84 said:
Ebor said:
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
True...I wonder what this priest's congregation is thinking right now.
Google, you'll see. If you can read Spanish, even more.
 

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ialmisry said:
Ebor said:
ialmisry said:
Ebor said:
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?
If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.
Do you see any repenting going on?  I seem to have missed it.


Ebor said:
ialmisry said:
This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....
I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.
No, if he had shut up, there might have been a point there. But it seems he is out to prove something, so no, when he went on to announce his defection to the Anglicans and scandalize the flock, no doubt is extended.
I smell a book deal coming......
 
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