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Protestant Evangelism the Orthodox East

PJ

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simmmo said:
David Young said:
simmmo said:
an Orthodox priest in the Ukraine confronting some Adventists
I am not sure what this post has to do with the theme of the thread. I thought (wrongly?) that Adventists were regarded as heretics, not one of the creedal Christian churches at all.

I recall a probably true anecdote in which A said to B something like, "I disagree with everything you say, but I would die for your right to say it." But no doubt the priest felt that overturning their tables was a truly dominical act undertaken in the spirit (or Spirit) of Christ.
David, I am currently in the SDA church. Whilst we don't like to think of our Trinitarian belief as Nicene, or our Christology as Chalcedonian, in reality they are. And, as you mention below, Baptists aren't explicitly creedal in this narrow sense either.

I should mention, however, that SDAs participate in the World Council of Churches. The explicitly heretical groups like the JWs and Mormons don't.

SDAs are at the very edge of (small "o") orthodoxy. I should also mention that, in their general attitudes to the early creeds, they are not much different from other radical Protestant groups in America like the Southern Baptists etc. I think Harold Bloom wrote a book on American Religion which showed that sects like Mormons, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, JWs, SDAs are really part of the same fabric. Many similarities to Gnosticism etc.
!
 

simmmo

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Peter J said:
simmmo said:
David Young said:
simmmo said:
an Orthodox priest in the Ukraine confronting some Adventists
I am not sure what this post has to do with the theme of the thread. I thought (wrongly?) that Adventists were regarded as heretics, not one of the creedal Christian churches at all.

I recall a probably true anecdote in which A said to B something like, "I disagree with everything you say, but I would die for your right to say it." But no doubt the priest felt that overturning their tables was a truly dominical act undertaken in the spirit (or Spirit) of Christ.
David, I am currently in the SDA church. Whilst we don't like to think of our Trinitarian belief as Nicene, or our Christology as Chalcedonian, in reality they are. And, as you mention below, Baptists aren't explicitly creedal in this narrow sense either.

I should mention, however, that SDAs participate in the World Council of Churches. The explicitly heretical groups like the JWs and Mormons don't.

SDAs are at the very edge of (small "o") orthodoxy. I should also mention that, in their general attitudes to the early creeds, they are not much different from other radical Protestant groups in America like the Southern Baptists etc. I think Harold Bloom wrote a book on American Religion which showed that sects like Mormons, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, JWs, SDAs are really part of the same fabric. Many similarities to Gnosticism etc.
!
This is news to you? American religion is quite dualistic.
 

primuspilus

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I think Harold Bloom wrote a book on American Religion which showed that sects like Mormons, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, JWs, SDAs are really part of the same fabric. Many similarities to Gnosticism etc
A book I would probably agree with. Evangelical protestantism IS very dualistic. Although if you told them that you'd probably lose a tooth or two :)

PP
 

simmmo

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primuspilus said:
I think Harold Bloom wrote a book on American Religion which showed that sects like Mormons, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, JWs, SDAs are really part of the same fabric. Many similarities to Gnosticism etc
A book I would probably agree with. Evangelical protestantism IS very dualistic. Although if you told them that you'd probably lose a tooth or two :)

PP
haha... I think if you told them that, they probably wouldnt have a clue what you were talking about! As long as they have their "personal relationship with Jesus" everything would be good! I have to say that most evangelicals are very nice people. I think hyper Calvinists might punch you in the face tho. Some of these are very unpleasant people.
 

WeldeMikael

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I would like to ask : Do many protestants (or specifically Evangelicals) push into theology, or Church Fathers ? Or they rather focus on, yeah, the relationship with Jesus ? More pratical than theological ?
 

simmmo

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WeldeMikael said:
I would like to ask : Do many protestants (or specifically Evangelicals) push into theology, or Church Fathers ? Or they rather focus on, yeah, the relationship with Jesus ? More pratical than theological ?
I think there is a growing appreciation of the Fathers in evangelical circles. That's why there seems to be many converting to Orthodoxy. But I'd say that the main thrust of American evangelicalism is still towards mega church type stuff or Southern Baptist non-creedal type stuff.

There is appears to be resurgence in Calvinsim in the US and less so in the UK. This new wave of Calvinists tend to take the Fathers seriously, or at least attempt to do so. An example of this is a book entitled "Pierced for Our Transgressions" to defend the penal substitution theory of the atonement as the controlling way we should understand the cross. There was a chapter in that book on penal substitution in the Fathers. The trouble with Calvinist treatments of the Fathers is, obviously, that none held beliefs remotely like Calvinism. I think what happens is that the Fathers are looked at as another source to mine for statements that can appear to support Calvinistic doctrine. It also makes them look legitimate if they can quote from the Fathers. As if dropping a statement from St John Chrysostom means that they know about Church history and that the early church agrees with them. But these Calvinists are probably on the fringe - they are an ever growing fringe however. They have the appearance of rigorous thinking about Scripture and the Church, and this appeals to many who are dissatisfied with much of the wishy washy stuff in modern evangelicalism.  But, if I could indulge, statements like this from one prominent Calvinist preacher show that their understanding of Christianity have nothing to do with Christ, the apostles and the Fathers:

"In the Final Judgment, we see the triune God settling violence on the heads of the rebellious forever and ever."

"if you don't believe in the vicarious death of Jesus Christ on the cross, suffering violence at the center of history at the hands of His Father, if you don't believe in a final judgment in which the sheep and the goats are separated... then you are in revolt against God's revelation and definition of His justice."

And in the comment section of this blog:

"The point here is that judicial violence executed by the Almighty was so vast and overwhelming that the modern Secular Man can't stand to look."


These are appalling statements to make. This is completely incompatible, as far as I know, with Orthodox understanding of God. It makes most Protestants wince. Calvinists embrace this completely distorted picture of God. I think that Calvinism will to be regarded as a sect or a cult in the future, with no ecumenical progress possible with the overwhelming majority of Christians.

 

primuspilus

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I would like to ask : Do many protestants (or specifically Evangelicals) push into theology, or Church Fathers ? Or they rather focus on, yeah, the relationship with Jesus ? More pratical than theological ?
Alot of Evangelicals are starting to think about the Early Church, especially in light of so many people coming up with their own theology. They want something rooted. Alot (not all) of them are wanting historical roots for their faith. That is one reason why the Messianics get alot of "airtime" in evangelical circles, because they think that it puts them in connection with the apostolic times.

Its also a big reason why alot of evangelicals look into Orthodoxy. Of course they're also looking into the "restorationist" movements too. lord have mercy.

PP
 

sprtslvr1973

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soderquj said:
simmmo said:
Thanks for your replies.

I've also heard that in Russia Mormon missionaries are not allowed to proselytise anymore. Any truth to this?
Yes that is correct, at this time they are restricted as they are considered a cult.
Unfortunate. However I feel about a certain religious group, I'd like it to be up to the individual to decide if its right or not. Not Big Brother
 

mike

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simmmo said:
This clip from youtube was made known to me on another blog post here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo5lK9qLK7w

It's shows an Orthodox priest in the Ukraine confronting some Adventists at a roadside literature stand during a procession. He overturns their tables and books. You can see from the comments that the Adventists are viewing this as persecution from the Orthodox. I wonder what the Orthodox make of this. Please comment.
http://www.religion.in.ua/news/ukrainian_news/17743-krymskaya-eparxiya-upc-nakazala-svyashhennikov-za-razgrom-palatki-adventistov.html

They have been disciplinde by the dioceasan court.
 

PJ

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Michał Kalina said:
simmmo said:
This clip from youtube was made known to me on another blog post here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo5lK9qLK7w

It's shows an Orthodox priest in the Ukraine confronting some Adventists at a roadside literature stand during a procession. He overturns their tables and books. You can see from the comments that the Adventists are viewing this as persecution from the Orthodox. I wonder what the Orthodox make of this. Please comment.
http://www.religion.in.ua/news/ukrainian_news/17743-krymskaya-eparxiya-upc-nakazala-svyashhennikov-za-razgrom-palatki-adventistov.html

They have been disciplinde by the dioceasan court.
Interesting. I eagerly wait to see how that goes over with people on this forum ...
 

Asteriktos

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Michał Kalina said:
http://www.religion.in.ua/news/ukrainian_news/17743-krymskaya-eparxiya-upc-nakazala-svyashhennikov-za-razgrom-palatki-adventistov.html

They have been disciplinde by the dioceasan court.
Bing translate isn't very good, what exactly was the decision other than them having to apologize?
 

mike

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One was deprived of the right to wear pectoral cross, for the second one - kamilavka.
 
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