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Rabbi demands Pope Benedict XVI remove cross at Western Wall

scamandrius

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This is just plain silly, in my view.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1237114844980&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Western Wall rabbi says pope should not wear cross at site
By MATTHEW WAGNER

Ahead of Pope Benedict XVI's May visit to Israel, the rabbi of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinovitch, has said that it is not proper to come to the site wearing a cross.

The pope wears a cross in all public appearances and is slated to visit the Western Wall on May 12 after a meeting with Muslim religious leaders at the Dome of the Rock.

After the visit, which will include a meeting with Rabinovitch, the pope is slated to meet with Israel's two chief rabbis, Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar.

"My position is that it is not fitting to enter the Western Wall area with religious symbols, including a cross," said Rabinovitch in a telephone interview with The Jerusalem Post Monday. "I feel the same way about a Jew putting on a tallit and phylacteries and going into a church


 

Innocent

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I pray he does not take it off and if the try and make him he gets on the next flight out of there!
 

Fr. George

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Why is Rabbi so defensive... if you're going to let the Chief Roman Catholic to the western wall, then expect religious symbols like the Cross.  If wearing it is really that offensive, then don't let him come - being a practicing Christian is being a living Symbol of the Cross and still a servant carrying their own Cross, so that should be equally offensive.
 

Theophilos78

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The Rabbi might think he has the right to make this request because the Patriarch of the West somehow hid his papal cross when he visited the Directorate of Religious affairs as well as some other Islamic sites during his visit to Turkey in 2006.
 

Fr. George

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Theophilos78 said:
The Rabbi might think he has the right to make this request because the Patriarch of the West somehow hid his papal cross when he visited the Directorate of Religious affairs as well as some other Islamic sites during his visit to Turkey in 2006.
Maybe.  BTW: He's no longer claiming the title of "Patriarch of the West."
 

Theophilos78

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cleveland said:
Theophilos78 said:
The Rabbi might think he has the right to make this request because the Patriarch of the West somehow hid his papal cross when he visited the Directorate of Religious affairs as well as some other Islamic sites during his visit to Turkey in 2006.
Maybe.  BTW: He's no longer claiming the title of "Patriarch of the West."
This means I shall have to call him the Pope of the West ;)
 

minasoliman

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GabrieltheCelt said:
Oh c'mon now, there's no anti-Christianity in the Holy Land.  ::)
I remember talking to an Indian Orthodox priest who said he went to the Holy Land when before entering somewhere (I forgot where), he was stopped by an Israeli officer asking him to put the cross inside his cloak.  The priest asked why, but the officer wouldn't give any reason.  Putting the cross inside, the priest replied, "I now know two people afraid of the cross, one of them being Satan."
 
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Then the Rabbi and I are even. I reject Judaism for it was fulfilled with the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Anti-Christianity in the Middle East? Next you're going to tell me pro wrestling isn't real. ;-)
 

SolEX01

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I would tell the guard to settle the status quo first before demanding that I hide my cross.
 

Marc1152

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GabrieltheCelt said:
Oh c'mon now, there's no anti-Christianity in the Holy Land.  ::)
I guess you missed the part of the statement where the Rabbi said he objects to all out of place religious symbols like a Jew wearing tifilin to Church.

 

scamandrius

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Marc1152 said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
Oh c'mon now, there's no anti-Christianity in the Holy Land.  ::)
I guess you missed the part of the statement where the Rabbi said he objects to all out of place religious symbols like a Jew wearing tifilin to Church.
That's not the issue.  First of all, all peoples of different religions are allowed to pray at the Western Wall. It says as much in the article since prior to 1967 the Jordanians controlled that area and forbade everyone except Muslims and then changed following the war of 1967.  If this is a multi-faith place, then symbols of different faiths should be respected as well.

It's not like the pope is going to a synagogue!  If that were the case, then your argument would have some weight.
 

lubeltri

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Christoph Cardinal Schonborn, the Archbishop of Vienna, and his party were ordered to remove their crosses when paying a visit to the wall several years ago. They refused and were escorted out.

It's funny---Pope John Paul II wore a cross when he visited the wall back in the 90s.
 

stashko

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Why Should orthodox christians worry what a heretical pope does or doesn't do...He doesn't represent Orthodox Christianity Anyway...

Doesn't the catechism of the catholic church state, the jews and moslems that don't accept jesus as God or saviour ,will be saved anyway they don't need to accept jesus as we christians...because the are considered abrahamic or something to this effect...

The pope prayed in a mosque but not in the Church of The Holy Wisdom in turkey,to please the Muslims...
He Didn't want to become a martyr, by praying in the church i guess....

If he Became a martyr it would of been better for him ,then i would say, that the catholic church had some hope and faith left then we could start talking unity...

But when the supreme  Head of the catholic Church is a shamed to preach Christ thur Prayer to appease
the Moslem's and not to offend them ,And denies right Worship of our lord and Saviour and to be a wittness.for Christ thank God were not united and hopefully will never be....

 

Marc1152

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scamandrius said:
Marc1152 said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
Oh c'mon now, there's no anti-Christianity in the Holy Land.  ::)
I guess you missed the part of the statement where the Rabbi said he objects to all out of place religious symbols like a Jew wearing tifilin to Church.
That's not the issue.  First of all, all peoples of different religions are allowed to pray at the Western Wall. It says as much in the article since prior to 1967 the Jordanians controlled that area and forbade everyone except Muslims and then changed following the war of 1967.  If this is a multi-faith place, then symbols of different faiths should be respected as well.

It's not like the pope is going to a synagogue!  If that were the case, then your argument would have some weight.
As you say, different religions are allowed to pray at the Western Wall. Therefore, the conclusion that the Holy Land is "Anti-Christian" is excessive.
 

James

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Pope John Paul II wore a cross when he visited the wall back in the 90s.

Indeed, blessed + Pope John Paul ll of recent memory did where his cross...if one looks for the photos

Guess someone has a agenda of sorts...
 

Papist

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stashko said:
Why Should orthodox christians worry what a heretical pope does or doesn't do...He doesn't represent Orthodox Christianity Anyway...
Not concerned with your brothers and sisters in Christ ouside of the walls of the Eastern Orthodox Church? I mean, you will have to deal with us in heaven, maybe you should try getting used to us now.
stashko said:
Doesn't the catechism of the catholic church state, the jews and moslems that don't accept jesus as God or saviour ,will be saved anyway they don't need to accept jesus as we christians...because the are considered abrahamic or something to this effect...
Uhhhh.... I think you need to actually read the Cathechism.
stashko said:
The pope prayed in a mosque but not in the Church of The Holy Wisdom in turkey,to please the Muslims...
He Didn't want to become a martyr, by praying in the church i guess....
If he Became a martyr it would of been better for him ,then i would say, that the catholic church had some hope and faith left then we could start talking unity...
What would the Pope getting kicked out of Hagia Sophia accomplish?
stashko said:
But when the supreme  Head of the catholic Church is a shamed to preach Christ thur Prayer to appease
the Moslem's and not to offend them ,And denies right Worship of our lord and Saviour and to be a wittness.for Christ thank God were not united and hopefully will never be....
I don't think the Pope is ashamed to preach Christ; he does it all the time. BTW, what is with all "..."s in your posting?
 

lubeltri

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Israeli ambassador confirms Pope Benedict may wear cross at Western Wall

Rome, Italy, Mar 18, 2009 / 02:13 am (CNA).- Contrary to comments attributed to an Israeli rabbi, Pope Benedict XVI will not be barred from entering the holy area of Jerusalem’s Western Wall while wearing a cross.

On Tuesday the Jerusalem Post quoted Rabbi Shmuel Rabinovitch, who oversees worship matters at the Western Wall, as saying that the Pope should not wear a cross during his visit to the area.

“It is not fitting to enter the Western Wall area with religious symbols, including a cross,” the rabbi reportedly said, according to SIR.

Mordechay Lewy, Israel’s Ambassador to the Holy See, issued a clarifying statement saying that the Jerusalem Post’s quotation was “misleading.”

Ambassador Lewy said that Israel will “respect, as a matter of course, the religious symbols of the Holy Father and of his entourage, as expected in accordance with rules of hospitality and dignity,” following the same procedure applied in Pope John Paul II’s papal visit to Israel in 2000.

“This was confirmed to a high Official of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Jerusalem personally by Rabbi Shmuel Rabinovitch,” the ambassador’s statement continued.

Pope Benedict is scheduled to visit the Western Wall on May 12 as part of his journey to the Holy Land.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15400
 

stanley123

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stashko said:
Why Should orthodox christians worry what a heretical pope does or doesn't do...He doesn't represent Orthodox Christianity Anyway...

Doesn't the catechism of the catholic church state, the jews and moslems that don't accept jesus as God or saviour ,will be saved anyway they don't need to accept jesus as we christians...because the are considered abrahamic or something to this effect...

The pope prayed in a mosque but not in the Church of The Holy Wisdom in turkey,to please the Muslims...
He Didn't want to become a martyr, by praying in the church i guess....

If he Became a martyr it would of been better for him ,then i would say, that the catholic church had some hope and faith left then we could start talking unity...

But when the supreme  Head of the catholic Church is a shamed to preach Christ thur Prayer to appease
the Moslem's and not to offend them ,And denies right Worship of our lord and Saviour and to be a wittness.for Christ thank God were not united and hopefully will never be....
I was sorry to read this, but hopefully, even if Catholics and Orthodox cannot be united, perhaps there are some areas where Catholics and Orthodox can work together, while still being members of different Churches.
You have brought up the theological question of whether a Jew or Moslem can go to heaven. However, I have heard some other Orthodox say that a Jew may enter heaven, although in the end, he will recognise Jesus as the Son of God.  I read about professor Liviu Librescu,  known for his act of heroism during the Virginia Tech massacre, in which he held off the gunman, giving all but one of his students enough time to escape through the windows. Professor Librescu was shot and killed during the attack. Sacrificing his own life, he saved the lives of his students. He died as an Orthodox Jew, and was given an Orthodox Jewish funeral in N.Y., and buried in Israel.  I would hope that this man would receive his reward in the afterlife, even though he was not a Christian.  He was a great hero, was he not? Generally, is there an Orthodox teaching on whether a Jew or Moslem may enter heaven?
 

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Papist said:
stashko said:
Why Should orthodox christians worry what a heretical pope does or doesn't do...He doesn't represent Orthodox Christianity Anyway...
Not concerned with your brothers and sisters in Christ ouside of the walls of the Eastern Orthodox Church? I mean, you will have to deal with us in heaven, maybe you should try getting used to us now.
stashko said:
Doesn't the catechism of the catholic church state, the jews and moslems that don't accept jesus as God or saviour ,will be saved anyway they don't need to accept jesus as we christians...because the are considered abrahamic or something to this effect...
Uhhhh.... I think you need to actually read the Cathechism.
stashko said:
The pope prayed in a mosque but not in the Church of The Holy Wisdom in turkey,to please the Muslims...
He Didn't want to become a martyr, by praying in the church i guess....
If he Became a martyr it would of been better for him ,then i would say, that the catholic church had some hope and faith left then we could start talking unity...
What would the Pope getting kicked out of Hagia Sophia accomplish?
stashko said:
But when the supreme  Head of the catholic Church is a shamed to preach Christ thur Prayer to appease
the Moslem's and not to offend them ,And denies right Worship of our lord and Saviour and to be a wittness.for Christ thank God were not united and hopefully will never be....
I don't think the Pope is ashamed to preach Christ; he does it all the time. BTW, what is with all "..."s in your posting?

They still deny Christ the Jews and Muslims as Son of God or God

,,,here's what your heretical  Catechism say's ...........



839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] "the first to hear the Word of God."[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",[328] "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."[329]
* 840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
* 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]
* 842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
* 843 "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as 'a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.'
 
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