Raising Children in a Mixed Marriage

katherineofdixie

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Yes, I guess that would be a problem! But then, do you think two people who attended such *very* different churches would ever get together? I can't see it myself.
As others have shown, it happens all the time. Remember the old “opposites attract”?


but I do honestly think that there's also something important in sharing your spiritual life with *someone*, if you're made to be married, rather than wasting it on loneliness.
But if the couple’s beliefs are widely different, as in Orthodox and Protestant, then you will not be sharing your spiritual life.

You don’t have to answer, of course, because these are personal issues, but just think about it – will your children be baptized in the Orthodox Church? If they are, then they will not be able to participate fully in the Anglican Church. If you baptize them in the Anglican Church, then they will not be able to participate in the Orthodox Church, and your husband will be betraying promises he made to raise his children in the Orthodox Church, as will you.

As a child of a mixed marriage (Catholic-Protestant), let me assure you that children know from a fairly early age that Mommy and Daddy do not agree on going to church, and it is an uncomfortable and vaguely threatening feeling, at best. (However there were no knockdown dragout fights and hostility – my parents were obviously devoted to one another.)

But religious beliefs were important to them and deeply held.

One of the happiest days of my life was when I was baptized (because of disagreements my brother and I were not baptized as infants) and I heard my father’s footsteps on the walk outside the church that my mother and brother and I attended, and saw him come in the door. The next happiest day was when he began to attend church with us.

Believe me, it matters. And believe me, children know what’s going on.
 

Liz

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ICXCNIKA said:
ECUSA = The Episcopal Church

I have seen two interfaith marriages and they were both disasterous. The 1st was greek orthodox man and a roman catholic woman. The kids grew up in both churches. The son is now a practicing hindu, and the daughter is no longer anything she left orthodoxy for catholicism and left that and now has no faith.
The second is a russian orthodox and roman catholic man they are still married but have had explosive knockdown drag out fights for over 30 years they have four grown kids that have no desire to be a part of any religion as in their opinion religion made their lives unbearable at times.
Liz, unfortunately I think you are blinded by Anglicanism which is not compatible with genuine Orthodox belief. Let me give an example: if your orthodox husband received communion in an anglican church he is no longer a memeber of the Orthodox Church, he has excommunicated himself and therefore is in reality an anglican. How can you have kids when one faith allows for women priests and another does not believe that such a thing can exist and that such a concept is unchristian. nevermind the sexual issues that are ripping the anglican communion apart. Unlike anglicanism where one can essentially believe what they want ranging from anglo-catholics to hardcore calvinists, we Orthodox share the same faith we are not free to pick and choose our doctrines. Hope this helps to clear up your confusion.
I'm not confused, thank you very much. I don't think you really know very much about Anglicanism, and you're making it into a straw man to prove your points. Why on earth would an Orthodox man think of receiving communion in an Anglican Church? And how would this mysteriously make him Anglican?
 

ICXCNIKA

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Liz said:
ICXCNIKA said:
ECUSA = The Episcopal Church

I have seen two interfaith marriages and they were both disasterous. The 1st was greek orthodox man and a roman catholic woman. The kids grew up in both churches. The son is now a practicing hindu, and the daughter is no longer anything she left orthodoxy for catholicism and left that and now has no faith.
The second is a russian orthodox and roman catholic man they are still married but have had explosive knockdown drag out fights for over 30 years they have four grown kids that have no desire to be a part of any religion as in their opinion religion made their lives unbearable at times.
Liz, unfortunately I think you are blinded by Anglicanism which is not compatible with genuine Orthodox belief. Let me give an example: if your orthodox husband received communion in an anglican church he is no longer a memeber of the Orthodox Church, he has excommunicated himself and therefore is in reality an anglican. How can you have kids when one faith allows for women priests and another does not believe that such a thing can exist and that such a concept is unchristian. nevermind the sexual issues that are ripping the anglican communion apart. Unlike anglicanism where one can essentially believe what they want ranging from anglo-catholics to hardcore calvinists, we Orthodox share the same faith we are not free to pick and choose our doctrines. Hope this helps to clear up your confusion.
I'm not confused, thank you very much. I don't think you really know very much about Anglicanism, and you're making it into a straw man to prove your points. Why on earth would an Orthodox man think of receiving communion in an Anglican Church? And how would this mysteriously make him Anglican?
In our understanding by accepting the Eucharist of a group whether it is Orthodox, Catholic, or Anglican you are saying that you accept its faith and dogmas. That is exactly why we do not allow our members to commune at other churches. Please do not think that I am anti- anglican quite the contrary. I was just trying to point out why Orthodox would see it differently than you and that is all I meant by confusion (that we have different views). How could he accept communion in an Anglican Church? well they have open communion, meaning any one can partake, they even had a recent incident where communion was given to a dog.
 

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ICXCNIKA said:
Liz said:
ICXCNIKA said:
ECUSA = The Episcopal Church

I have seen two interfaith marriages and they were both disasterous. The 1st was greek orthodox man and a roman catholic woman. The kids grew up in both churches. The son is now a practicing hindu, and the daughter is no longer anything she left orthodoxy for catholicism and left that and now has no faith.
The second is a russian orthodox and roman catholic man they are still married but have had explosive knockdown drag out fights for over 30 years they have four grown kids that have no desire to be a part of any religion as in their opinion religion made their lives unbearable at times.
Liz, unfortunately I think you are blinded by Anglicanism which is not compatible with genuine Orthodox belief. Let me give an example: if your orthodox husband received communion in an anglican church he is no longer a memeber of the Orthodox Church, he has excommunicated himself and therefore is in reality an anglican. How can you have kids when one faith allows for women priests and another does not believe that such a thing can exist and that such a concept is unchristian. nevermind the sexual issues that are ripping the anglican communion apart. Unlike anglicanism where one can essentially believe what they want ranging from anglo-catholics to hardcore calvinists, we Orthodox share the same faith we are not free to pick and choose our doctrines. Hope this helps to clear up your confusion.
I'm not confused, thank you very much. I don't think you really know very much about Anglicanism, and you're making it into a straw man to prove your points. Why on earth would an Orthodox man think of receiving communion in an Anglican Church? And how would this mysteriously make him Anglican?
In our understanding by accepting the Eucharist of a group whether it is Orthodox, Catholic, or Anglican you are saying that you accept its faith and dogmas. That is exactly why we do not allow our members to commune at other churches. Please do not think that I am anti- anglican quite the contrary. I was just trying to point out why Orthodox would see it differently than you and that is all I meant by confusion (that we have different views). How could he accept in an Anglican Church? well they have open communion they even had a recent incident where communion was given to a dog.
Thanks for explaining (though, I must say, whether or not you consider someone to be Anglican probably doesn't make them so!). But you still haven't explained why any Orthodox person would want to commune at an Anglican Church? And why they should need to? Doubtless they would be welcomed by the Anglican congregation, but it would cause some puzzlement!

I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
 

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Sorry, Katherine, I didn't see this post until just now!

katherineofdixie said:
Yes, I guess that would be a problem! But then, do you think two people who attended such *very* different churches would ever get together? I can't see it myself.
As others have shown, it happens all the time. Remember the old “opposites attract”?


but I do honestly think that there's also something important in sharing your spiritual life with *someone*, if you're made to be married, rather than wasting it on loneliness.
But if the couple’s beliefs are widely different, as in Orthodox and Protestant, then you will not be sharing your spiritual life.
I don't think that's true.

You don’t have to answer, of course, because these are personal issues, but just think about it – will your children be baptized in the Orthodox Church? If they are, then they will not be able to participate fully in the Anglican Church. If you baptize them in the Anglican Church, then they will not be able to participate in the Orthodox Church, and your husband will be betraying promises he made to raise his children in the Orthodox Church, as will you.
They'll be baptized in the Orthodox Church - why would this stop them from participating just as fully as other children in the Anglican Church? Both my vicar and my partner's priest expect that that is what they will do. Of course, if once they are older (teenage or adult), if they wish to become communicant members of the Anglican Church, they will have to make that choice, and will no longer be able to be part of the Orthodox Church. But at that point, my husband is pretty satisfied he will have done his best to raise them in the Orthodox Church!

Incidentally, I haven't yet promised to raise children in the Orthodox Church, and the priest knows that if we have them, I'll take them to my services too (apart from anything else, I can't imagine they'll conveniently wish not  to be fed just at the right time every Sunday!).

As a child of a mixed marriage (Catholic-Protestant), let me assure you that children know from a fairly early age that Mommy and Daddy do not agree on going to church, and it is an uncomfortable and vaguely threatening feeling, at best. (However there were no knockdown dragout fights and hostility – my parents were obviously devoted to one another.)
I don't wish to blame your parents, but maybe they should have thought about this earlier? My partner and I don't disagree; we discuss. I'm the child of a sort of 'mixed' marriage, in that mum is Anglican and dad is firmly atheist, and I have friends whose parents are Catholic/Jewish, Catholic/Protestant, and Sikh/Anglican. I've not come across the problems you describe. It may partly be to do with the different attitude to religion as a whole in the UK - it's not always a good thing that British people don't like to talk about religion, but it does mean that there's less of a sense that it should be argued about.

But religious beliefs were important to them and deeply held.

One of the happiest days of my life was when I was baptized (because of disagreements my brother and I were not baptized as infants) and I heard my father’s footsteps on the walk outside the church that my mother and brother and I attended, and saw him come in the door. The next happiest day was when he began to attend church with us.

Believe me, it matters. And believe me, children know what’s going on.
I remember knowing what was going on when I was little. But it never upset me or confused me. It's sad, now, to hear my dad get cynical about organized religion (which he does), but I know that when he was a teenager he lost his faith, and he can't seem to get it back. I wouldn't ever want to blame him for that.
 

katherineofdixie

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I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
 

Liz

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katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish. H

Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

ICXCNIKA

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Liz said:
katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish.

No one linked it to you personally, however, most of the congregants seemed to think it was a good idea. Its rather sad and besides the point. The Anglican Communion will give the sacrament to anyone whether they believe in sacraments or not or in the resurrection etc. If you know of any instance of an orthodox priest doing something inappropriate please let his bishop know...corrective action up to and perhaps including defrockment will occur. Our Church takes these things very seriously.
Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

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Liz said:
katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish.
The sad thing is, Liz, this type of incident is almost symbolic of what has become of the modern Anglican Church in North America. Believe me, I have discussed this situation (which occured at a parish not far from where  I live) with many of my Anglican and former Anglican friends, and this was their assessment of the situation. BTW, increasing numbers of Anglicans are becoming Orthodox over here due to this very modernistic mentality.

Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

Liz

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ICXCNIKA said:
Liz said:
katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish.

No one linked it to you personally, however, most of the congregants seemed to think it was a good idea. Its rather sad and besides the point. The Anglican Communion will give the sacrament to anyone whether they believe in sacraments or not or in the resurrection etc. If you know of any instance of an orthodox priest doing something inappropriate please let his bishop know...corrective action up to and perhaps including defrockment will occur. Our Church takes these things very seriously.
The Anglican Communion will invite anyone who is a communicant member of his or her own Church, to receive the Eucharist. Out of curiosity: if I went into an Orthodox church in a strange town, participated in the service properly, and went to receive the Eucharist, would the priest refuse it and demand to see my certificate of Orthodox baptism?

I think the church where communion was offered to a dog (if indeed this is a true story, which I'm not in a position to judge) have quite clearly proved they are not Christian. If someone called themselves an Orthodox priest and went around doing the same, you'd surely assume he was mad and you wouldn't judge the rest of the Church by his actions.

Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

Liz

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Rosehip said:
Liz said:
katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish.
The sad thing is, Liz, this type of incident is almost symbolic of what has become of the modern Anglican Church in North America. Believe me, I have discussed this situation (which occured at a parish not far from where  I live) with many of my Anglican and former Anglican friends, and this was their assessment of the situation. BTW, increasing numbers of Anglicans are becoming Orthodox over here due to this very modernistic mentality.
That is terribly sad, but thanks for explaining it, Rosehip. I wouldn't call this 'modernistic' - I'd have a stronger term for it!

Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

ICXCNIKA

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Liz said:
ICXCNIKA said:
Liz said:
katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't express myself very clearly, but please don't link me to this sort of offensive rubbish.

No one linked it to you personally, however, most of the congregants seemed to think it was a good idea. Its rather sad and besides the point. The Anglican Communion will give the sacrament to anyone whether they believe in sacraments or not or in the resurrection etc. If you know of any instance of an orthodox priest doing something inappropriate please let his bishop know...corrective action up to and perhaps including defrockment will occur. Our Church takes these things very seriously.
The Anglican Communion will invite anyone who is a communicant member of his or her own Church, to receive the Eucharist. Out of curiosity: if I went into an Orthodox church in a strange town, participated in the service properly, and went to receive the Eucharist, would the priest refuse it and demand to see my certificate of Orthodox baptism?

I think the church where communion was offered to a dog (if indeed this is a true story, which I'm not in a position to judge) have quite clearly proved they are not Christian. If someone called themselves an Orthodox priest and went around doing the same, you'd surely assume he was mad and you wouldn't judge the rest of the Church by his actions.
I cannot say about the CofE but my experience in North America is that they will allow anyone to receive whether Anglican or not.If you went to an Orthodox Church the priest would not give you communion unless he knew you were Orthodox. It is suggested that you contact the priest to let him know that you will be visiting this way he is not surprised by you coming up to the chalice. If however, if you go up and he doesn't know you he will ask if you are Orthodox and if you are properly prepared to receive. If you are not he will allow you to kiss the chalice only.

Edited for moratorium violation - mike.
 

Liz

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ICXCNIKA said:
I cannot say about the CofE but my experience in North America is that they will allow anyone to receive whether Anglican or not.If you went to an Orthodox Church the priest would not give you communion unless he knew you were Orthodox. It is suggested that you contact the priest to let him know that you will be visiting this way he is not surprised by you coming up to the chalice. If however, if you go up and he doesn't know you he will ask if you are Orthodox and if you are properly prepared to receive. If you are not he will allow you to kiss the chalice only.
Yes, the Anglican Church (as I said) will invite anyone who's a communicant member of their own Church to come and receive communion. The point is, they leave it up to you to be honest and act in good faith - it's not that they don't care, it's to do with being true to the spirit of Christ's sacrifice and his ministry, which didn't cling to the old Jewish laws restricting who could touch whom, and who could participate in what. That's the thinking as I've heard it explained, anyway.

You see, as far as I can tell, it'd be just as easy to lie to an Orthodox priest ('oh, yes, of course I'm Orthodox, I worship at St. Nicholas in Faraway Town, you must know it'), as it would be to lie to an Anglican one. The only difference is that, if you're in an Anglican Church, the understanding is that communicant members of all churches are automatically eligible to receive the Eucharist - that's not to do with not caring, but to do with our different attitudes towards community and the One True Church.

What I'm getting at is, there is a sincerity in the Anglican approach, which I think you are not seeing.
 

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You know (and it's something I'm bad at), we'll get pulled up for wandering off the thread topic in a minute, so to bring it back:

I would think that, whatever difficulties we might expect in Orthodox/Anglican mixed parenting, it must be far harder for Orthodox/Catholic couples. Or would the Orthodox Church feel differently about this, as the Catholic  Church shares some history with the Orthodox?

 

ICXCNIKA

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Liz said:
ICXCNIKA said:
I cannot say about the CofE but my experience in North America is that they will allow anyone to receive whether Anglican or not.If you went to an Orthodox Church the priest would not give you communion unless he knew you were Orthodox. It is suggested that you contact the priest to let him know that you will be visiting this way he is not surprised by you coming up to the chalice. If however, if you go up and he doesn't know you he will ask if you are Orthodox and if you are properly prepared to receive. If you are not he will allow you to kiss the chalice only.
Yes, the Anglican Church (as I said) will invite anyone who's a communicant member of their own Church to come and receive communion. The point is, they leave it up to you to be honest and act in good faith - it's not that they don't care, it's to do with being true to the spirit of Christ's sacrifice and his ministry, which didn't cling to the old Jewish laws restricting who could touch whom, and who could participate in what. That's the thinking as I've heard it explained, anyway.

You see, as far as I can tell, it'd be just as easy to lie to an Orthodox priest ('oh, yes, of course I'm Orthodox, I worship at St. Nicholas in Faraway Town, you must know it'), as it would be to lie to an Anglican one. The only difference is that, if you're in an Anglican Church, the understanding is that communicant members of all churches are automatically eligible to receive the Eucharist - that's not to do with not caring, but to do with our different attitudes towards community and the One True Church.

What I'm getting at is, there is a sincerity in the Anglican approach, which I think you are not seeing.
A person could lie to the Orthdox Priest but then they will be liable before God both for lieing and recieving unworthily, the priest has done what he could to protect both the sacrament and them. If I am reading what you wrote correctly than you admit that the AC offers communion to anyone that is a member of their own church the only problem with that is that there are plenty of anglicans and other protestants that don't believe in sacraments or the resurrection. A qoute from an article I am currently reading about the AC by a former member: "How can a 'communion' call itself a 'communion', when its members can't even agree on what Communion is?"
 

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ICXCNIKA said:
Liz said:
ICXCNIKA said:
I cannot say about the CofE but my experience in North America is that they will allow anyone to receive whether Anglican or not.If you went to an Orthodox Church the priest would not give you communion unless he knew you were Orthodox. It is suggested that you contact the priest to let him know that you will be visiting this way he is not surprised by you coming up to the chalice. If however, if you go up and he doesn't know you he will ask if you are Orthodox and if you are properly prepared to receive. If you are not he will allow you to kiss the chalice only.
Yes, the Anglican Church (as I said) will invite anyone who's a communicant member of their own Church to come and receive communion. The point is, they leave it up to you to be honest and act in good faith - it's not that they don't care, it's to do with being true to the spirit of Christ's sacrifice and his ministry, which didn't cling to the old Jewish laws restricting who could touch whom, and who could participate in what. That's the thinking as I've heard it explained, anyway.

You see, as far as I can tell, it'd be just as easy to lie to an Orthodox priest ('oh, yes, of course I'm Orthodox, I worship at St. Nicholas in Faraway Town, you must know it'), as it would be to lie to an Anglican one. The only difference is that, if you're in an Anglican Church, the understanding is that communicant members of all churches are automatically eligible to receive the Eucharist - that's not to do with not caring, but to do with our different attitudes towards community and the One True Church.

What I'm getting at is, there is a sincerity in the Anglican approach, which I think you are not seeing.
You could lie to the Orthdox Priest but then you will be liable before God both for lieing and recieving unworthily, the priest has done what he could to protect both the sacrament and you.
It would be exactly the same if you lied to an Anglican vicar, or deceived him by coming to receive communion either in an unfit state, or while not being a communicant member of your church.

If I am reading what you wrote correctly than you admit that the AC offers communion to anyone that is a member of their own church the only problem with that is that there are plenty of anglicans and other protestants that don't believe in sacraments or the resurrection.
No - I am sure there are no Anglicans who don't believe in the resurrection! It would go against the Anglican Creed, so quite impossible. It's true people differ in the way they understand the sacraments.

A qoute from an article I am currently reading about the AC by a former member: "How can a 'communion' call itself a 'communion', when its members can't even agree on what Communion is?"
Well, this is an interesting question, but I'm not wise enough to answer! I don't think anyone quite understands what communion is, except that it's a holy mystery.

It's a constant problem, in my opinion: the Orthodox Church is very good at defining what belief should be, and protecting that - but in the process, to me, it loses the spirit of inclusiveness at the root of Christianity. The Anglican Church is very good at being inclusive, but in doing so, all too often, risks appearing to condone heresy or misbelief.
 

ICXCNIKA

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"No - I am sure there are no Anglicans who don't believe in the resurrection! It would go against the Anglican Creed, so quite impossible. It's true people differ in the way they understand the sacraments."

Then you have never heard of Bishop Spong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong

 

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katherineofdixie said:
I have not heard this 'story' about communion being given to a dog, but it is disrespectful to associate something like that with any religion. Please don't do so.
Here's the thread on that incident:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28961.0.html
I didn't link to it to hurt you or offend you. I linked to it because I inferred from your comment (erroneously?) that you had not heard it and that you thought the story was a malicious lie - when it was not. My apologies if I interpreted your comment in error.
 
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