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PeterTheAleut

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SolEX01 said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Of course not!  I watched one NFL playoff game in the mid 80's that went to a second overtime because of that rule.  Very long game, since NFL overtime is no Kansas Plan.
Here is the aforementioned game:

The New York Jets were largely in control of this game, and after a Freeman McNeil 25 yard touchdown, giving the Jets a 20-10 lead with 4:14 left in the game, the "Dog pound" in Cleveland Stadium became a dour place.
In a January 2, 1987 article, the New York Times identified Mark Gastineau as "the Jet who must make the big play on defense." On the Browns next drive, Gastineau did made the big play - a roughing the passer penalty on 3 and 24; a costly penalty, giving the Browns a valuable first down. Browns Quarterback Bernie Kosar turned that opportunity into a 68-yard scoring drive.
The Jets went three-and-out in their next possession, setting up a final drive for the Browns. With seven seconds left in regulation, a 37-yard pass play from Kosar to Receiver Webster Slaughter set up the game tying field goal by Mark Moseley.
After the Jets punted on their first overtime possession, the Browns drove to the Jets' 5 yard line, where despite the apparent sure victory, Moseley missed a 23-yarder wide right.
After a series of punts shared between the teams, Kosar again led the Browns on a 60-yard drive, ending the game two minutes, two seconds into the second overtime on a 27-yard field goal.
In that game, Kosar set post season records for completions, attempts, and passing yards.
Source

Besides the 2008 Baltimore Ravens, has a team ever lost in the same year to teams quarterbacked by brothers?  So, a team would have to lose to the Indianapolis Colts (QB'ed by Peyton Manning) and the New York Giants (QB'ed by Eli Manning) in the same year?
When was the last time a pair of brothers QB'ed different NFL teams at the same time?

I find it interesting that the Giants ran the ball down the throats (200+ yards rushing) of the best rush defense in the NFL.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
When was the last time a pair of brothers QB'ed different NFL teams at the same time?
The San Antonio sports column only reports 6 pairs of brothers ever playing QB in the NFL.

"Only six other pairs of brothers have played quarterback in the league since it formed in the 1920s, and none of those duos have even come close to matching the Detmers' combined longevity. Ty broke into the league with Green Bay in 1992 after a Heisman Trophy-winning career at BYU, and Koy joined him in Philadelphia five years later after starring at Colorado."

PeterTheAleut said:
I find it interesting that the Giants ran the ball down the throats (200+ yards rushing) of the best rush defense in the NFL.
Ravens don't talk as much trash under their new coach and the Giants took exception to the trash coming out of Ray Lewis' mouth.  He's past his prime and the Ravens paid the price.  In consolation, the Ravens have gone 29 games without giving up a 100 yard rusher.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Jakub said:
NFL needs to adopt the NCAAF OT format...
Kansas Plan, right?  At least that would fix the problem of a team NEVER getting the ball (and the chance to score) during an overtime period because they lost the coin toss.
 

SolEX01

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Sudden death is the NFL going back to the 1958 Championship Game.

Golf tournaments end in sudden death playoffs.  I have no problem with the NFL keeping sudden death.  After all, the losing team had 60 the same 60 minutes to do something as the winning team.

TV obligations prevent the NFL from playing multiple regular season OTs.  In playoff season, all bets are off.  ;D
 

PeterTheAleut

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SolEX01 said:
Golf tournaments end in sudden death playoffs.
But each of the contestants in the overtime period has the same opportunity to score without the other trying to keep him FROM scoring.  Your golf example is actually more like the example of using extra innings to decide a baseball game--each team has the same opportunity to score (albeit, against an opponent hellbent on keeping them from scoring).
 

SolEX01

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A golfer and a relief pitcher face the same stress in extra inning situations.

With football, both teams physically beat each other up for 60 minutes.  If they've reached a tie and have to play overtime, the team that doesn't get the ball failed in preventing the other team from scoring.  Why do they need to be rewarded with one more chance?

In college, ties were more common before the OT rule was implemented.  OT was implemented more for the BCS than anything else and College is supposedly a fairer environment than the cutthroat NFL.
 

PeterTheAleut

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SolEX01 said:
With football, both teams physically beat each other up for 60 minutes.  If they've reached a tie and have to play overtime, the team that doesn't get the ball failed in preventing the other team from scoring.  Why do they need to be rewarded with one more chance?
That's the problem.  They didn't get an equitable chance to begin with, so how can you reward them with one more of what they never had:  possession of the ball with the chance to score?

In college, ties were more common before the OT rule was implemented.
Of course ties were more common before OT.  After OT was implemented, teams would play as many OT's as were needed to finally crown a winner, thus rendering ties virtually impossible.  I think the NCAA Div. I-A record for most overtimes is seven (Arkansas 58, Ole Miss 56 (14-14 after regulation), on 11/03/2001; and Arkansas 71, Kentucky 63 (24-24 after regulation) on 11/01/2003; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtime_(sports)#North_American_sports).

OT was implemented more for the BCS than anything else
Then how do you explain NCAA Division II & III games going to overtime, as well?  They actually use playoffs to determine their national champs.

and College is supposedly a fairer environment than the cutthroat NFL.
A good argument for implementing the Kansas Plan for NFL overtimes. ;)
 

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All I know is....my Bengals actually managed to not lose.

A tie will make our 2008 season highlight reel, I'm afraid!
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
That's the problem.  They didn't get an equitable chance to begin with, so how can you reward them with one more of what they never had:  possession of the ball with the chance to score?
Think of the ancient duel as the analogy - the guy who gets shot usually doesn't get another chance to fire back at the shooter.

PeterTheAleut said:
Of course ties were more common before OT.  After OT was implemented, teams would play as many OT's as were needed to finally crown a winner, thus rendering ties virtually impossible.  I think the NCAA Div. I-A record for most overtimes is seven.
Ask the NFL Players Union if they want to play in 7 untimed OT's and 5 hour games like College.

PeterTheAleut said:
Then how do you explain NCAA Division II & III games going to overtime, as well?  They actually use playoffs to determine their national champs.
An equitable OT is OK on the college level.  Sudden death OT in college could result in fan riots.  ;)
 

PeterTheAleut

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SolEX01 said:
PeterTheAleut said:
That's the problem.  They didn't get an equitable chance to begin with, so how can you reward them with one more of what they never had:  possession of the ball with the chance to score?
Think of the ancient duel as the analogy - the guy who gets shot usually doesn't get another chance to fire back at the shooter.
But the goal of a football team--I HOPE :eek:--is NOT to kill their opponent.

PeterTheAleut said:
Of course ties were more common before OT.  After OT was implemented, teams would play as many OT's as were needed to finally crown a winner, thus rendering ties virtually impossible.  I think the NCAA Div. I-A record for most overtimes is seven.
Ask the NFL Players Union if they want to play in 7 untimed OT's and 5 hour games like College.
Ask the college players who actually played those games if THEY wanted to play in 7 untimed OT's stretching the game to 5 hours!

PeterTheAleut said:
Then how do you explain NCAA Division II & III games going to overtime, as well?  They actually use playoffs to determine their national champs.
An equitable OT is OK on the college level.  Sudden death OT in college could result in fan riots.   ;)
Then why is it not OK for the Pros?
 

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Think of the NFL as the modern day incarnation of gladiatorial combat.

One combatant struck a mortal blow to the other combatant.  Did the other combatant usually have an equitable chance to strike back before death or disability?

Same thing exists in NFL.  If one team scores first in sudden death, that is equivalent to striking the fatal blow which renders the other team unable to come back.

College Football is more dependent on TV Revenue than the NFL.  Long games are in the best interests of college football.  The College Players don't seem to mind even though they receive nothing besides an athletic scholarship.  Meanwhile, NFL Players make a lot of money and can accept the rules of sudden death football.

 

Tzimis

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SolEX01 said:
Think of the NFL as the modern day incarnation of gladiatorial combat.

One combatant struck a mortal blow to the other combatant.  Did the other combatant usually have an equitable chance to strike back before death or disability?

Same thing exists in NFL.  If one team scores first in sudden death, that is equivalent to striking the fatal blow which renders the other team unable to come back.

College Football is more dependent on TV Revenue than the NFL.  Long games are in the best interests of college football.  The College Players don't seem to mind even though they receive nothing besides an athletic scholarship.  Meanwhile, NFL Players make a lot of money and can accept the rules of sudden death football.
I'd like to see them trough a few tigers in the arena after the game. I wonder what that would do to the salary cap?
 

Rastaman

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PeterTheAleut said:
Jakub said:
Australian Rules Football is real football...
Is that the same thing as Rugby?  Talk about a violent sport! :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiGoqObb0YQ&feature=related

Rugby is for the boys who can't handle Aussie Rules....
 

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I was nearly beat up during an indoor floor hockey game by some law student many, many years ago.  My teammate almost started a fight with the law student because the law student had me pinned into a corner.  I was OK.
 

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SolEX01 said:
Think of the NFL as the modern day incarnation of gladiatorial combat.
Think of the first possession of an NFL sudden death overtime as gladiatorial combat in which only one of the combatants has a sword and the other is trying to take it away before he gets killed.  To really be fair, you need to give BOTH combatants swords.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Think of the first possession of an NFL sudden death overtime as gladiatorial combat in which only one of the combatants has a sword and the other is trying to take it away before he gets killed.  To really be fair, you need to give BOTH combatants swords.
Wha?  For many teams their defense is the sword, and not their offense.  That's why the analogy is imperfect - teams like Baltimore have no problem if the other team wins the toss (unless that team is the New York Giants, that is), because they're confident enough in their top-3 defense to make a stop, or even convert a turnover into excellent field position.

That's the dynamic of NFL football; one can't blame the system for not getting an offensive touch in an Overtime - you had plenty of chances in regulation, and your defense had a chance to get a stop in the OT.  In the NFL, the only way to consistently win is to have a defense that can consistently stop the other team's offense when the need arises.
 

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EofK said:
Football is comprehensible?  Are you sure?
Of course it is!  If guys were able to get equivalent class hours for the amount of time they spend reading articles & watching games (and managing fantasy teams), they could easily get a minor in football. 
 

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cleveland said:
EofK said:
Football is comprehensible?  Are you sure?
Of course it is!  If guys were able to get equivalent class hours for the amount of time they spend reading articles & watching games (and managing fantasy teams), they could easily get a minor in football. 
True enough.  Might even beat an English major for getting a (sort of) real job in the end.  ;)
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Think of the first possession of an NFL sudden death overtime as gladiatorial combat in which only one of the combatants has a sword and the other is trying to take it away before he gets killed.  To really be fair, you need to give BOTH combatants swords.
Both combatants already have swords - offense and defense.

If offense scores first, striking the fatal blow, game over because the defense failed to stop the offense from scoring.  Quite a simple and elegant doctrine.  :laugh:
 

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EofK said:
True enough.  Might even beat an English major for getting a (sort of) real job in the end.  ;)
Nah - there aren't enough openings in the world to accommodate all the football junkies in the US, and there are far too many people who don't speak the language well.
 

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cleveland said:
EofK said:
True enough.  Might even beat an English major for getting a (sort of) real job in the end.  ;)
Nah - there aren't enough openings in the world to accommodate all the football junkies in the US, and there are far too many people who don't speak the language well.
They'll both fit in at McD's.  ;)
 

Fr. George

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EofK said:
They'll both fit in at McD's.  ;)
Would you like fries with that?

SolEX01 said:
Eagles' QB Donovan McNabb didn't know that there can be tie games in the NFL.
There are a lot of players who don't keep up with rule changes; a good number of them thought that the tie rule had been changed in the last 4-5 years.
 

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Would you like fries with that?
No.  It's breakfast time.  I wanna 2 egg Mc Muffins.  No cheese.


Personally, I watch Pancrase and Aussie Rules F-ball because of the potential for broken bones.  Just like hockey, I expect that it's not just the display of skill that one looks at when watching the black poece of coal or shiny red egg pounded around, but the spectacular fights that people get into.  It's fantastic.  I wonder, though, if the players have a good dental plan.  Or if they bother with solid food at all after the game.  Maybe they just bite through the steak with their gums.  Now, that's a REAL sportsman.

Friggin' Kobe and his manacures. 
 

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Ian Lazarus said:
No.  It's breakfast time.  I wanna 2 egg Mc Muffins.  No cheese.
No cheese?  What do you think this is, Burger King?  Your way, right away?  NO MCMUFFIN FOR YOU.

Ian Lazarus said:
Friggin' Kobe and his manacures.  
I never knew that about him.... I think it's "manicures," btw...
 

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No cheese?  What do you think this is, Burger King?  Your way, right away?  NO MCMUFFIN FOR YOU.
I pays da money, I gets da macmurfin.  No chee!!!


I never knew that about him.... I think it's "manicures," btw...
Yep.  It's kind of a running tradition.  Dr. J used to do it, and so dis Mike.  So I guess ol' Korn-on-the-Kobe is just following suit, seeing as he can afford as many man-o-cures as he can handle.
 

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Ian Lazarus said:
I never knew that about him.... I think it's "manicures," btw...
Yep.  It's kind of a running tradition.  Dr. J used to do it, and so dis Mike.  So I guess ol' Korn-on-the-Kobe is just following suit, seeing as he can afford as many man-o-cures as he can handle.
Well, if it helps his "shooter's touch..."  Wait, what am I saying?  He's on the beginning of his personal down-slope.  He'll need more than fancily-cut nails to save his game.
 

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Hey, did you know that they're getting a basketball league together in Europe, based in Italy, financed by some big old money, and that they have already asked Kobe and some of our biggest stars to play overseas for 65 Mil a yeat and up!  There apparently is no salary cap in the league.  We may be seeing our brst going to Europe to play. 

Thoughts?
 

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I don't know if the non-cap salary will be enough to counter the promotional deals and ad $ that would be unavailable to them if they went to Europe.
 

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True, but then again, it could be of some benefit.  I mean, we may have won Gold in the Olympics, but that was because we sent in our NBA hit squad to do the job.  We used to send our college kids.  They sued to clean house.  Now Europe is exporting talent, and even our pros didnt sweep the floor with anyone this time around.  I think personally, it would be a good thing, because it can lead to stronger players in the long run.  Here, you may run into 4-8 Luthuanian, Serbian, Greek, and German(?) players that can clean up in the NBA.  There, you've got droves.  The more esposure the game gets, the better the players get becuse the fiercer the competition grows.

   
 

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I'm all for the competition; but I still think that the US NBA will be the premiere league, and the choice destination for the top-level talent.
 
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