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ZealousZeal

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There's ice cream in my freezer. It's calling my name. Shouting it, actually...  :-\
 

kurtismjohnson

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ZealousZeal said:
There's ice cream in my freezer. It's calling my name. Shouting it, actually...  :-\
Sounds like that those break-n-bake cookies were shouting at me a few minutes ago....
 

Asteriktos

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If God didn't want you eating that stuff he wouldn't have invented them  :)
 

Asteriktos

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Ok, so I just started to watch the Hitchens vs. Craig debate from 2009. Atheists say Hitchens blows Craig away, and Christians say Craig blows Hitchens away. Whatever. I think all claims that someone pwns/destroys/whatever someone else should be banned from youtube, because it's never, ever, never, ever, ever accurate. Anyway, still, I want to see what it's all aboot, eh?  But i'm only a minute in and I'm already confused... Biola has a Masters degree program in "Christian apologetics"?  Really? I knew those guys took apologetics seriously, but I never even thought of something like that...
 

ZealousZeal

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Asteriktos said:
Ok, so I just started to watch the Hitchens vs. Craig debate from 2009. Atheists say Hitchens blows Craig away, and Christians say Craig blows Hitchens away. Whatever. I think all claims that someone pwns/destroys/whatever someone else should be banned from youtube, because it's never, ever, never, ever, ever accurate. Anyway, still, I want to see what it's all aboot, eh?  But i'm only a minute in and I'm already confused... Biola has a Masters degree program in "Christian apologetics"?  Really? I knew those guys took apologetics seriously, but I never even thought of something like that...
I started watching that a couple of months ago, and never got around to finishing it. I've also never heard of a degree in "Christian apologetics", so blank stare from me on that one.

Let me know how it is?
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Asteriktos said:
Ok, so I just started to watch the Hitchens vs. Craig debate from 2009. Atheists say Hitchens blows Craig away, and Christians say Craig blows Hitchens away. Whatever. I think all claims that someone pwns/destroys/whatever someone else should be banned from youtube, because it's never, ever, never, ever, ever accurate. Anyway, still, I want to see what it's all aboot, eh?  But i'm only a minute in and I'm already confused... Biola has a Masters degree program in "Christian apologetics"?  Really? I knew those guys took apologetics seriously, but I never even thought of something like that...

Yeah, the whole evangelical apologetics movement is dangerous in my opinion. Trying to prove the veracity of the Christian Faith by human reason alone is an exercise in futility. It's good to defend the Faith and give reasons for the hope that we have, but attempts to reduce Christianity to logical syllogisms and systematic proofs ultimately create idolatous caricatures of the Divine rather than proving the existence of the Divine Creator.


Selam
 

Asteriktos

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ZealousZeal said:
I started watching that a couple of months ago, and never got around to finishing it. I've also never heard of a degree in "Christian apologetics", so blank stare from me on that one.

Let me know how it is?
I'm 54 minutes in and just taking a break. I'll post a bit here after I'm done, though I'll leave myself open to objections regardless of what I say I suppose  ;D

Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
Yeah, the whole evangelical apologetics movement is dangerous in my opinion. Trying to prove the veracity of the Christian Faith by human reason alone is an exercise in futility. It's good to defend the Faith and give reasons for the hope that we have, but attempts to reduce Christianity to logical syllogisms and systematic proofs ultimately create idolatous caricatures of the Divine rather than proving the existence of the Divine Creator.
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. .  [insert emoticon which conveys what I'm feeling, which is sort of a "I don't know, yet" vibe]
 

JamesR

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While many of his arguments may be inaccurate or fallacious, William Lane Craig did blow Hitchens out of the water in this debate from a purely debate standpoint. Whether or not they are good arguments, Hitchens barely responded to any of Craig's opening arguments and at the Q&A segment, Hitchens kept trying to beat around the bush of Craig's questions.
 

Asteriktos

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That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---  woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!

;D

Anyway, regarding St. Justin...

"The so-called logical evidence for the existence of God is: the cosmological, theological, psychological, historical, ethical proofs, and many more, which, through the passing of time have been formulated into philosophical rationalism. They cannot, in the Dogmatics of the Orthodox Church, have a value of real evidence because they are based on the principles of the relative, limited, sinful minds and senses of humanity. To the Church and the Revelation, the truth about the existence of God is an illogical and irrational hypothesis, which has the need of proof with the basis of logical reasoning, the truth which God has revealed to us, and is therefore the unquestionable, true evidence. As a divine and given reality, this truth is not dependent on proof and arguments from rational functions of the mind." - Fr. Justin Popovich, Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ, p. 202
 

That person

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Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---   woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!
It was the best thing I could think of to insert when you asked me to insert something. Maybe
would have been better. So do you post there? I'm semi-regular in the Off Topic section. Haven't actually played Civ in a good while.
 

Asteriktos

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ZealousZeal said:
Asteriktos said:
I agree, I also found Craig more persuasive.
Really? Interesting.
To be fair, I've never been overly enamored with Hitchens. And if Craig recycles arguments as often as the atheists I've watched claims he does, then Hitchens didn't seem to be aware of it. But really what I tried to do is not simply evaluate the arguments, but rather to look at things from the perspectives of both men. Craig does rely on assumptions and disputable argumentation (which gets to the point Hitchens tried to make about Craig usually being considered an evidentialist, but really going down the presuppositionalist road quite a ways as well). Both men ask us to consider the evidence, but what they don't delve deeply enough into IMO is where the speakers and the listeners are starting from. If I started with reason being the ultimate criterion, and perhaps the only important one, and tried to view everything from an objective, outside-looking-in position, then Craig would not have persuaded me, and neither would Hitchens have done so. But if I put myself in the shoes of both men, the naturalist and the Christian (not at the same time, but I mean trying to understand each man, one at a time), and was willing for the sake of argument to accept certain assumptions that each man accepts, and asked who made the better case, to me it seemed like Craig did so.
 

Asteriktos

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That person said:
Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---   woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!
It was the best thing I could think of to insert when you asked me to insert something. Maybe
would have been better. So do you post there? I'm semi-regular in the Off Topic section. Haven't actually played Civ in a good while.
Ahh, ok :)  I haven't been around Civfanatics for a while though, except maybe once or twice a year while looking for a download or something. I used to play the GOTM all the time for... Civ 3 I think, and Civ 4 when it first came out I think... but it's been too long, I forget which (probably both).
 

Ortho_cat

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Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---   woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!
It was the best thing I could think of to insert when you asked me to insert something. Maybe
would have been better. So do you post there? I'm semi-regular in the Off Topic section. Haven't actually played Civ in a good while.
Ahh, ok :)  I haven't been around Civfanatics for a while though, except maybe once or twice a year while looking for a download or something. I used to play the GOTM all the time for... Civ 3 I think, and Civ 4 when it first came out I think... but it's been too long, I forget which (probably both).
isn't the civ 5 expansion due out soon? I need to get my PC fixed for that one.
 

Asteriktos

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Ortho_cat said:
Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---   woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!
It was the best thing I could think of to insert when you asked me to insert something. Maybe
would have been better. So do you post there? I'm semi-regular in the Off Topic section. Haven't actually played Civ in a good while.
Ahh, ok :)  I haven't been around Civfanatics for a while though, except maybe once or twice a year while looking for a download or something. I used to play the GOTM all the time for... Civ 3 I think, and Civ 4 when it first came out I think... but it's been too long, I forget which (probably both).
isn't the civ 5 expansion due out soon? I need to get my PC fixed for that one.
Yeah, June 19th (I didn't know off the top of my head, even though I've been seeing articles on it at gaming sites, so I checked wiki). I just recently started playing it again. Still not in love with it. That my computer isn't as good as it should/needs to be probably is part of that.
 

That person

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Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
That person said:
Asteriktos said:
St. Justin Popovich would seem to agree with you on that. .. . 
What was the hmm for? Are you hmming my stuff in brackets, or the statement about St. Justin? If the latter, well I wo---   woh, wait, you used a smiley from civfanatics? That's like +1000 geek points. Seriously. You da man. Civ forever! Sid forever!
It was the best thing I could think of to insert when you asked me to insert something. Maybe
would have been better. So do you post there? I'm semi-regular in the Off Topic section. Haven't actually played Civ in a good while.
Ahh, ok :)  I haven't been around Civfanatics for a while though, except maybe once or twice a year while looking for a download or something. I used to play the GOTM all the time for... Civ 3 I think, and Civ 4 when it first came out I think... but it's been too long, I forget which (probably both).
You should check out their OT sometime. Like most forums, it's not nearly as good as it used to be, but you still seem like you could fit in well.
 

JamesR

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Hurray my mother said that I could get a dog this summer! I do live in an apartment and I do not have much experience training dogs, but I have rad a lot about animal psychology. So, I think that I am going to get a greyhound since they are lazy and sleep 20 hours a day, requiring very little effort from me to take care of! Hurray for laziness!
 

Asteriktos

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If you would be willing to take the dog from the house across the street from me I would be happy to dognap procure it for you. The owners leave it on the front porch most of the day and night, and it barks every time anything goes past... cars... people... animals...   if you don't take up my offer, I may have to find another solution...  :eek:
 

ZealousZeal

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I wish someone would dognap my dog, Steve. He is... ornery.
 

Asteriktos

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Um....  [change of subject needed, and that right quick!]


I'll just leave this right here (warning: language)...
 

ZealousZeal

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Timon said:
I wish Thursday was still Jersday.

Anyone else??
Really? I was embarrassed to admit that I love Thursdays because Grey's Anatomy is on (finale tonight!), but now...  ;)
 

JamesR

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I hate Grey's Anatomy  :mad: it stole Jeffrey Dean Morgan from Supernatural, he always wasn't available to make new episodes because he was too busy doing Grey's Anatomy.
 

ZealousZeal

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JamesR said:
I hate Grey's Anatomy  :mad: it stole Jeffrey Dean Morgan from Supernatural, he always wasn't available to make new episodes because he was too busy doing Grey's Anatomy.
Grey's killed his character off seasons ago, you can have him back now.  ;)
 

ZealousZeal

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orthonorm said:
Asteriktos said:
What happens in one more day?   Oh right...
WTF? How and when did this happen?

Dude, what planet do you live on?
You've never heard that debacle until today? You're better for it.

It was released about a year ago to much critical acclaim as "the worst song ever".
 

Asteriktos

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orthonorm said:
Asteriktos said:
What happens in one more day?   Oh right...
WTF? How and when did this happen?

Dude, what planet do you live on?
:D

You might like this one more. You may or may not like the singing, but I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy Simon's honesty afterwards  8)

EDIT--Though to be clear about the honesty thing, I felt so terrible for the girl!
 
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