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TheTrisagion

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Khouria Frederica Mathewes-Green is coming up to our parish this Sunday, I think. You can come meet me in a safe, non-threatening environment.

On second thought, don't. You are still dead to me.
 

kelly

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TheTrisagion said:
Khouria Frederica Mathewes-Green is coming up to our parish this Sunday, I think. You can come meet me in a safe, non-threatening environment.

On second thought, don't. You are still dead to me.
I work this Sunday. Pity.
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
Theophania said:
When I met ZZ, almost exactly a year ago, she demanded to know how I got her address.
When I met Theophania, I didn't meet her because she cancelled on me at the last minute claiming she was sick, but later revealing that she was afraid I was a serial rapist.
Sounds right.
 

kelly

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TheTrisagion said:
Yes it is a pity to go without the Mysteries. What kind of Orthodox Christian are you?
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Theophania said:
When I met ZZ, almost exactly a year ago, she demanded to know how I got her address.
When I met Theophania, I didn't meet her because she cancelled on me at the last minute claiming she was sick, but later revealing that she was afraid I was a serial rapist.
Sounds right.
Well aren't the two of you just two peas in a pod.  :mad:
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Theophania said:
When I met ZZ, almost exactly a year ago, she demanded to know how I got her address.
When I met Theophania, I didn't meet her because she cancelled on me at the last minute claiming she was sick, but later revealing that she was afraid I was a serial rapist.
Sounds right.
Well aren't the two of you just two peas in a pod.  :mad:
Oh, I wish!  I so wish...what a pod that would be.  The luckiest pod in the world.  :angel:
 

minasoliman

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TheTrisagion said:
Raylight said:
Do you think we will say the things we say to each here if we were ever to meet in person?
When I met Mor Ephrem in person, I called him a monophysite and he called me a Nestorian. Then we punched each other in the face.


Good times.


Insert Michael Jackson's music of "beat it"
 

kelly

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I just got a revised work schedule for April. I'm now off this Sunday but I'm still not hanging out with Tris.
 
R

Raylight

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TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Raylight said:
Do you think we will say the things we say to each here if we were ever to meet in person?
When I met Mor Ephrem in person, I called him a monophysite and he called me a Nestorian. Then we punched each other in the face.


Good times.
Don't forget how we went to dinner and then got dessert and sat with each other in public and everyone saw us together.  <3
There are some memories so precious and intimate, that I don't speak of them them out loud, but rather meditate on them in the stillness of the night.
When is the wedding guys, anyway?
 

HaydenTE

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Raylight said:
TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Raylight said:
Do you think we will say the things we say to each here if we were ever to meet in person?
When I met Mor Ephrem in person, I called him a monophysite and he called me a Nestorian. Then we punched each other in the face.


Good times.
Don't forget how we went to dinner and then got dessert and sat with each other in public and everyone saw us together.  <3
There are some memories so precious and intimate, that I don't speak of them them out loud, but rather meditate on them in the stillness of the night.
When is the wedding Adelphopoiesis guys, anyway?
Fixed it for you. It's the Orthodox equivalent.  :p
 
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Raylight

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HaydenTE said:
Raylight said:
TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Raylight said:
Do you think we will say the things we say to each here if we were ever to meet in person?
When I met Mor Ephrem in person, I called him a monophysite and he called me a Nestorian. Then we punched each other in the face.


Good times.
Don't forget how we went to dinner and then got dessert and sat with each other in public and everyone saw us together.  <3
There are some memories so precious and intimate, that I don't speak of them them out loud, but rather meditate on them in the stillness of the night.
When is the wedding Adelphopoiesis guys, anyway?
Fixed it for you. It's the Orthodox equivalent.  :p
So you had to ruin the joke, eh?  ???
 

HaydenTE

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Raylight said:
HaydenTE said:
Raylight said:
TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
Raylight said:
Do you think we will say the things we say to each here if we were ever to meet in person?
When I met Mor Ephrem in person, I called him a monophysite and he called me a Nestorian. Then we punched each other in the face.


Good times.
Don't forget how we went to dinner and then got dessert and sat with each other in public and everyone saw us together.  <3
There are some memories so precious and intimate, that I don't speak of them them out loud, but rather meditate on them in the stillness of the night.
When is the wedding Adelphopoiesis guys, anyway?
Fixed it for you. It's the Orthodox equivalent.  :p
So you had to ruin the joke, eh?  ???
I thought the comparison was humourus. Lots of modern scholars have made parallels between Brother-making and Same-sex marriage. I find the concept funny, I suppose.
 

TheTrisagion

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Theophania said:
I just got a revised work schedule for April. I'm now off this Sunday but I'm still not hanging out with Tris.
That awkward moment when you refuse to hang out with someone who didn't want to hang out with you to begin with.
 

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RaphaCam said:
First day assisting a public defender probably led me to see much more weirdness than I had ever seen before in my whole life.
This sounds like an amazing job.
 

RaphaCam

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ZealousZeal said:
RaphaCam said:
First day assisting a public defender probably led me to see much more weirdness than I had ever seen before in my whole life.
This sounds like an amazing job.

It's not bad, his other assistants are a bit overwhelmed, so my job is basically assisting them. I may manage to learn everything from the very beginning in that way.
 

TheTrisagion

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So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
 

Cyrillic

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TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
 

TheTrisagion

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Cyrillic said:
TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
Pretty much, but you seldom hear one knowing what Nestorianism is, so it was funny to hear someone trying to defend him explicitly.
 

ZealousZeal

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TheTrisagion said:
Cyrillic said:
TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
Pretty much, but you seldom hear one knowing what Nestorianism is, so it was funny to hear someone trying to defend him explicitly.
Yeah, if I asked any of the Protestants from my home church what their thoughts are on Nestorianism I'd probably get, "We need to evangelize them so they can become Christian. I don't think there's too many of them left, but I know Freddie Mercury was one."
 

Volnutt

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Cyrillic said:
TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
Not officially and those I've seen in the past who know about it have called it a heresy. One could argue it's always been in their theology by implication and is just now coming out, though (like it is the theology of some more Reformed* commentators like RC Sproul).




*Depending on what definition of the notoriously hard to define word "Evangelical" Tris is using here is, Sproul is an Evangelical himself.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Cyrillic said:
TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
Do they?  I thought they at least accepted up to Chalcedon. 

;)
 

Cyrillic

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Mor Ephrem said:
Cyrillic said:
TheTrisagion said:
So a friend of mine called randomly yesterday and started discussing how he thinks Nestorius got a bum rap since he didn't get a chance to explain himself at the council, and maybe he had a good reason for promoting the term Christotokos. From what I understand, he is teaching a class on early Church History in his church.

Those crazy evangelicals!  ;D
Don't Evangelicals subscribe to Nestorianism?
Do they?  I thought they at least accepted up to Chalcedon. 

;)
I was already expecting this 

:laugh:
 

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Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)

I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection. 
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)

I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Possibly. It was a major obstacle for me. I think it had to do with my inability to understand how someone who dies and goes to heaven could hear my prayers from such a long distance away. I understood how God, being everywhere and all-knowing could hear a prayer, but couldn't figure out how saints could.
 

TheTrisagion

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RaphaCam said:
Today I overheard a black guy at the court saying to his family: "I thought they would make us sit separately from the white folks, as they do in the US."
What? Give black people the right to due process?!?!

 

RaphaCam

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TheTrisagion said:
RaphaCam said:
Today I overheard a black guy at the court saying to his family: "I thought they would make us sit separately from the white folks, as they do in the US."
What? Give black people the right to due process?!?!

I'm surprised you actually called them people, you slave-trading nation!


Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)  I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Once two friends who are, say, moderate Evangelicals gave me a strange look when I spoke of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead. They actually thought this was a "scandalous urban preacher" thing.
 

TheTrisagion

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RaphaCam said:
TheTrisagion said:
RaphaCam said:
Today I overheard a black guy at the court saying to his family: "I thought they would make us sit separately from the white folks, as they do in the US."
What? Give black people the right to due process?!?!

I'm surprised you actually called them people, you slave-trading nation!
Ack!  The white-robed klansmen are at my doorstep to take me away for improper ideology!!!
 

Mor Ephrem

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RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)  I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Once two friends who are, say, moderate Evangelicals gave me a strange look when I spoke of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead. They actually thought this was a "scandalous urban preacher" thing.
I'm not surprised in the least.  ISTM the average Evangelical associates "resurrection" merely with a post-death phenomenon which Jesus experienced at a certain point in time and maybe with some biblical miracles, but otherwise entirely dismisses or ignores the biblical teaching on resurrection.  Really, they're rather like modern Sadducees. 
 

Volnutt

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TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)

I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Possibly. It was a major obstacle for me. I think it had to do with my inability to understand how someone who dies and goes to heaven could hear my prayers from such a long distance away. I understood how God, being everywhere and all-knowing could hear a prayer, but couldn't figure out how saints could.
Yeah, I've had Evangelical friends bring that objection out on me too.
 

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Volnutt said:
TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)

I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Possibly. It was a major obstacle for me. I think it had to do with my inability to understand how someone who dies and goes to heaven could hear my prayers from such a long distance away. I understood how God, being everywhere and all-knowing could hear a prayer, but couldn't figure out how saints could.
Yeah, I've had Evangelical friends bring that objection out on me too.
Wouldn't the answer be theosis? I. e., saints can hear our prayers because God can, and they are united with Him via theosis. As opposed to saints hearing our prayers somehow apart from God, or via their own human abilities.
 

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Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
 

Mor Ephrem

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augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
What did it have to do with?
 

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augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
You're basically implying that Christ and the apostles didn't teach theosis, when they rather didn't speak of notions such as "theosis", "uncreated energies" or "ontological communion". Christ probably never named the Aramaic counterpart of metousiosis, but 1st-century Christians clearly knew that the sacred species were the Lord's literal body and blood, although they looked, smelt and tasted like bread and wine.
 

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augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
I know and I'm fine with that, honestly. I would argue that God uses our human frailties to do all sorts of things.

Minnesotan said:
Volnutt said:
TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Eruvande said:
Equally randomly, a friend of mine visited and did her usual jokey "wouldn't pray to a dead person" line, and instead of being quiet as I usually am, I asked her if she thought she was going to stop being interested in her loved ones if she goes to heaven. She stopped and said she'd not thought of it that way before. One of those rare moments I am glad I spoke rather than extracting my foot from my gob.
:)

I really do believe that an inability to accept the veneration and intercession of the saints is ultimately due to a weak or defective belief in the resurrection.
Possibly. It was a major obstacle for me. I think it had to do with my inability to understand how someone who dies and goes to heaven could hear my prayers from such a long distance away. I understood how God, being everywhere and all-knowing could hear a prayer, but couldn't figure out how saints could.
Yeah, I've had Evangelical friends bring that objection out on me too.
Wouldn't the answer be theosis? I. e., saints can hear our prayers because God can, and they are united with Him via theosis. As opposed to saints hearing our prayers somehow apart from God, or via their own human abilities.
Pretty much. The Holy Spirit relaying the messages to them. It may also have something to do with being with God, who is outside time as we know it.
 

Volnutt

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RaphaCam said:
augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
You're basically implying that Christ and the apostles didn't teach theosis, when they rather didn't speak of notions such as "theosis", "uncreated energies" or "ontological communion". Christ probably never named the Aramaic counterpart of metousiosis, but 1st-century Christians clearly knew that the sacred species were the Lord's literal body and blood, although they looked, smelt and tasted like bread and wine.
No, he's saying that the cult of Saints and martyrs came about as a development of the Roman refrigerium (and as a Christianizing of the pagan notion of patron deities). Ideas that it can be traced to theosis are all after the fact reasoning, though this does not necessarily make them false.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
 

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Volnutt said:
RaphaCam said:
augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
You're basically implying that Christ and the apostles didn't teach theosis, when they rather didn't speak of notions such as "theosis", "uncreated energies" or "ontological communion". Christ probably never named the Aramaic counterpart of metousiosis, but 1st-century Christians clearly knew that the sacred species were the Lord's literal body and blood, although they looked, smelt and tasted like bread and wine.
No, he's saying that the cult of Saints and martyrs came about as a development of the Roman refrigerium (and as a Christianizing of the pagan notion of patron deities). Ideas that it can be traced to theosis are all after the fact reasoning, though this does not necessarily make them false.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
You know a lot about what people are saying before they say it.  Do you guys plan this or something?
 
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