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kelly

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I think I've decided on a local Mexican restaurant for my birthday dinner next week. Mmmmm camarones.
 

byhisgrace

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Volnutt said:
No, he's saying that the cult of Saints and martyrs came about as a development of the Roman refrigerium (and as a Christianizing of the pagan notion of patron deities). Ideas that it can be traced to theosis are all after the fact reasoning, though this does not necessarily make them false.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
If the refrigerium development theory is true, then wouldn't that lend more water to the Evangelical argument that the "visible" church hierarchs have compromised the true faith by making up the Veneration of Saints practice to make Christianity more accommodating to pagan converts?

 

Volnutt

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Mor Ephrem said:
Volnutt said:
RaphaCam said:
augustin717 said:
Those are all ad hoc and post factum  explanations. As good as any , but the context in which the cult of the saints was born had nothing to do with an elaborate theology of the resurrection or theosis.
You're basically implying that Christ and the apostles didn't teach theosis, when they rather didn't speak of notions such as "theosis", "uncreated energies" or "ontological communion". Christ probably never named the Aramaic counterpart of metousiosis, but 1st-century Christians clearly knew that the sacred species were the Lord's literal body and blood, although they looked, smelt and tasted like bread and wine.
No, he's saying that the cult of Saints and martyrs came about as a development of the Roman refrigerium (and as a Christianizing of the pagan notion of patron deities). Ideas that it can be traced to theosis are all after the fact reasoning, though this does not necessarily make them false.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
You know a lot about what people are saying before they say it.  Do you guys plan this or something?
No, just an educated guess.
 

Volnutt

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byhisgrace said:
Volnutt said:
No, he's saying that the cult of Saints and martyrs came about as a development of the Roman refrigerium (and as a Christianizing of the pagan notion of patron deities). Ideas that it can be traced to theosis are all after the fact reasoning, though this does not necessarily make them false.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
If the refrigerium development theory is true, then wouldn't that lend more water to the Evangelical argument that the "visible" church hierarchs have compromised the true faith by making up the Veneration of Saints practice to make Christianity more accommodating to pagan converts?
Maybe.

Either way, I don't believe in going "back to the New Testament Church." Whatever "pure" first century theology that one might postulate the existence of, the fact remains that there's a Providential reason why it didn't last (unless some form of Landmarkism is true). Either the evolution of tradition into the forms that we have today was guided by God or Christianity is DOA.

Now, that doesn't necessarily prove that the true tradition is one that includes veneration of the Saints. There might still be other reasons to think that the Reformation and the subsequent development of one or more modern Evangelicalisms were God ordained processes (though I'm pretty skeptical). But such reasons would have to exist independently of some kind of "Great Apostasy" argument.
 

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I discovered today that i have the ability to say 'ok' to my husband going out for a church meeting and mean it heartily, but simultaneously be a bit of a grouchy so and so about it. Need to work on that attitude and the speaking out of both sides of my mouth. Also called death by "Sarcasm? What sarcasm?"
 

kelly

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Was just thinking earlier how it was a year ago that I was coming home from my pilgrimage to Ohio, aka the home of ZealousZeal. This was before she was a big deal mod on OCnet. I feel like I can brag about knowing her "way back when." I hope she appreciates the turbulence I endured on my flight back home. I'm still upset.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Theophania said:
Was just thinking earlier how it was a year ago that I was coming home from my pilgrimage to Ohio, aka the home of ZealousZeal. This was before she was a big deal mod on OCnet. I feel like I can brag about knowing her "way back when." I hope she appreciates the turbulence I endured on my flight back home. I'm still upset.
You didn't post in the right place.
 

kelly

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Mor Ephrem said:
Theophania said:
Was just thinking earlier how it was a year ago that I was coming home from my pilgrimage to Ohio, aka the home of ZealousZeal. This was before she was a big deal mod on OCnet. I feel like I can brag about knowing her "way back when." I hope she appreciates the turbulence I endured on my flight back home. I'm still upset.
You didn't post in the right place.
I gave her my condolences privately.
 

vamrat

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Theophania said:
Was just thinking earlier how it was a year ago that I was coming home from my pilgrimage to Ohio, aka the home of ZealousZeal. This was before she was a big deal mod on OCnet. I feel like I can brag about knowing her "way back when." I hope she appreciates the turbulence I endured on my flight back home. I'm still upset.
I visited Ohio before I even knew of ZZ.
My other bestest buddy was born in Ohio before ZZ was even born.
I listened to DEVO before Kasich was even winning the primary in Ohio.
Try harder.
 

kelly

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I have to work midnight to 9 am today (well, technically tomorrow). I'm already feeling low and the anticipation of that ungodly shift is not helping matters.
 

DeniseDenise

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if God is everywhere and beyond time......then is there such a thing as an Ungodly time of day, or an UnGodly shift?
 

kelly

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DeniseDenise said:
if God is everywhere and beyond time......then is there such a thing as an Ungodly time of day, or an UnGodly shift?
Yes, and it's the graveyard shift.
 

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Theophania said:
DeniseDenise said:
if God is everywhere and beyond time......then is there such a thing as an Ungodly time of day, or an UnGodly shift?
Yes, and it's the graveyard shift.
Yep. I work 4pm-midnight. Years ago, I worked 10pm-6am. It's loopy. I have to take extra vitamin D because I don't get sun.
 

PeterTheAleut

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biro said:
Theophania said:
DeniseDenise said:
if God is everywhere and beyond time......then is there such a thing as an Ungodly time of day, or an UnGodly shift?
Yes, and it's the graveyard shift.
Yep. I work 4pm-midnight. Years ago, I worked 10pm-6am. It's loopy. I have to take extra vitamin D because I don't get sun.
The way I think about it, you're working 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. relative to somewhere in the world. :D
 

kelly

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I survived my shift. Now to wait for that sweet overtime.
 

ZealousZeal

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I want night coffee but I'm thinking that I'll regret it if I indulge.
 

TheTrisagion

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So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious. 
 

DeniseDenise

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TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.

Shall we pray that he keeps it up and she sees your church as a possible?
 

TheTrisagion

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primuspilus said:
Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
We should SO be doing this with the procession  ;D

PP
He thought it was such a clever idea. I thought my wife was about to walk out. I was greatly amused, but had to be the sympathetic husband. At the end, he asked everyone who was willing to "embark on this new adventure" with him to stand up. About half the congregation stood. Then he asked the half that didn't to write on a piece of paper why they didn't want to join him and hand it to an usher on the way out. I've never seen anything like it before. Usually, Methodist churches are a pretty vanilla affair. Not yesterday, though...
 

TheTrisagion

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DeniseDenise said:
TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.

Shall we pray that he keeps it up and she sees your church as a possible?
I would love for that to be the result.  :D
 

Iconodule

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TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.
Curious, what kind of church is this?
 

DeniseDenise

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TheTrisagion said:
primuspilus said:
Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
We should SO be doing this with the procession  ;D

PP
He thought it was such a clever idea. I thought my wife was about to walk out. I was greatly amused, but had to be the sympathetic husband. At the end, he asked everyone who was willing to "embark on this new adventure" with him to stand up. About half the congregation stood. Then he asked the half that didn't to write on a piece of paper why they didn't want to join him and hand it to an usher on the way out. I've never seen anything like it before. Usually, Methodist churches are a pretty vanilla affair. Not yesterday, though...
 

TheTrisagion

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United Methodist, although the pastor came to UM from Assemblies of God, I think. As you can probably guess, it hasn't been a great fit so far.
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.
At least they accept the council of Chalcedon.
 

minasoliman

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Volnutt said:
The difference between saying "Muslim" and saying "Moslem."

Huh, I had no idea until now that there were different connotations (other than "Moslem" being a little more old fashioned). Apparently "Muselman" (the oldest form) comes from Persian via Turkish whereas "Muslim" is an attempt at a transliteration directly from the Arabic.
I asked my folks about the "mosslim" vs "mozlem" pronunciations.  There is no Arabic word "mozlem", but there is "muznib", which means one who does evil.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.
Wowsers. I'm going to be really careful about sharing this with my husband, because I can see some of those ideas cropping up in the new youth service at his church...
 

kelly

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TheTrisagion said:
DeniseDenise said:
TheTrisagion said:
So at my wife's church this Sunday, instead of giving a sermon, the pastor decided to brainstorm on how to increase member involvement and excitement in the church. Several of his suggestions were:
1. Encourage people to change their wills to leave 50k to the church (most of the church is elderly people, so it really sounded like a con-man trying to bilk little old people out of their money)
2. Install a zipline for him to use to get to the podium
3. Put up hip new art on the walls
4. Put up a big huge billboard style electronic sign out front
5. Not be afraid to jettison traditions (i.e. the traditional service which about 70% of the congregation attends) in favor of their new contemporary service called "The Journey".

My wife was furious.

Shall we pray that he keeps it up and she sees your church as a possible?
I would love for that to be the result.  :D
Has she ever come with you to Liturgy?
 

vamrat

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minasoliman said:
Volnutt said:
The difference between saying "Muslim" and saying "Moslem."

Huh, I had no idea until now that there were different connotations (other than "Moslem" being a little more old fashioned). Apparently "Muselman" (the oldest form) comes from Persian via Turkish whereas "Muslim" is an attempt at a transliteration directly from the Arabic.
I asked my folks about the "mosslim" vs "mozlem" pronunciations.  There is no Arabic word "mozlem", but there is "muznib", which means one who does evil.
So we should be referring to people like ISIS as Muznibs rather than Moslems?  I wouldn't want to use the wrong word.
 

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It's hard to believe it's been a while since I last posted here. I remember the days when I couldn't stay away from here for more than three hours. I guess I've just been busier lately.
 
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