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AntoniousNikolas

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TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
 

Alpha60

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Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
There are three things America suffers from lack of, in my opinion, but I hardly find anybody else that holds the opinion or even considers it: Americans suffer from lack of shame, lack of respect, and, in most cases, lack of physical pain and hardship.
Preach it brother! Back in my day, if we saw a woman's ankle, we'd become inflamed in a procreative way and call her a trollop. Now they are flouting their cleavage and booties shamelessly. And the boys are even worse! I say we bring back the draft.


Post edited to remove graphic/obscene reference. Keep it clean, keep it safe. -ZZ
How would reinstating military conscription address the issue of sexual morality in society?  Pin-up girls were created largely to decorate barracks.
 

DeniseDenise

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Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
 

AntoniousNikolas

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DeniseDenise said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
 

Mor Ephrem

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Antonious Nikolas said:
DeniseDenise said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
I'm pretty sure she's DeniseDenise, not PatPat.
 

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RaphaCam said:
Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
There are three things America suffers from lack of, in my opinion, but I hardly find anybody else that holds the opinion or even considers it: Americans suffer from lack of shame, lack of respect, and, in most cases, lack of physical pain and hardship.
Preach it brother! Back in my day, if we saw a woman's ankle, we'd become inflamed in a procreative way and call her a trollop. Now they are flouting their cleavage and booties shamelessly. And the boys are even worse! I say we bring back the draft.


Post edited to remove graphic/obscene reference. Keep it clean, keep it safe. -ZZ
I LOL'd at the admin action.
We aim to please.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
DeniseDenise said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
I'm pretty sure she's DeniseDenise, not PatPat.
Puns can be fun.

 

Mor Ephrem

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
DeniseDenise said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
I'm pretty sure she's DeniseDenise, not PatPat.
Puns can be fun.

I love you.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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RaphaCam said:
Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
There are three things America suffers from lack of, in my opinion, but I hardly find anybody else that holds the opinion or even considers it: Americans suffer from lack of shame, lack of respect, and, in most cases, lack of physical pain and hardship.
Preach it brother! Back in my day, if we saw a woman's ankle, we'd become inflamed in a procreative way and call her a trollop. Now they are flouting their cleavage and booties shamelessly. And the boys are even worse! I say we bring back the draft.


Post edited to remove graphic/obscene reference. Keep it clean, keep it safe. -ZZ
I LOL'd at the admin action.
+1

Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
DeniseDenise said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life.  I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards.  I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)


Axios!
I'm pretty sure she's DeniseDenise, not PatPat.
Puns can be fun.

I love you.
I'd say I love you too, but, you know...

Agabus said:
Can we have one thread where it doesn't devolve into how many people are hot for Mor?
 

Porter ODoran

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Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life. I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards. I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like? I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy), but, on the other hand, I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life. I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards. I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like? I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy), but, on the other hand, I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
I am all contemplation...
 

DeniseDenise

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life. I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards. I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like? I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy), but, on the other hand, I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.

Leave it to you to bring the female chest into this...
 

Porter ODoran

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DeniseDenise said:
Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life. I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards. I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like? I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy), but, on the other hand, I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.

Leave it to you to bring the female chest into this...
The subject had come up quite a bit earlier. The fact is the beard is a male secondary sex characteristic, as enlarged breasts are a female secondary sex characteristic.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy)
Rather, any miscommunication in this exchange has been due entirely to your inability to read and process the statements of your interlocutors coupled with your inability to recognize and ameliorate your self-righteous hypocrisy.  I never asserted that you considered shaving a "categorical sin" even as I never made a number of other arguments you've assigned to me in this discourse.  Rather, I stated that I found your idea that shaving was both emasculating and indicative of an inherent impiety to be laughable.  You're either blinded by your own hubris or you simply don't read for accuracy.  Either way, trying to hold a discussion with you is a frustrating endeavor, since all you have to offer is miserable bile with no accompanying wit or wisdom.

Porter ODoran said:
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like?...I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
LOL!!!  You're hilarious!  Thanks for treating us to another your trademark illogical leaps, like when you compared shaving to a mastectomy.  So because - in your vision of the Eschaton - all men will be bearded when in their perfect bodies, all men should be bearded here on earth, and in the case of those who are not, this is indicative of emasculation and impiety, right?  In the World to Come will we be naked as Adam in the Garden?  If so, should we strut our stuff in the buff down here?  Will we eat animals?  If not, should we all turn vegan?  If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?  Since it is obviously the "visible will of God" for women to have hair under their arms and on their legs - and presumably they will appear this way in the World to Come - are women who groom themselves in such a fashion impious and contrary to genuine femininity as envisioned by the Creator?  Are painted toenails an affront to God?  How about shoes, since God made us to walk barefoot?  How about pants, Preacher Porter?  Don't you hate pants?  How far do we take this grooming thing?  If shaving the face is wrong, how about trimming the beard, or trimming the hair?  Why not go full Rasta?  St. Paul said long hair on the head of a man is a shame, but will there be scissors and combs in the Heavenly Jerusalem?  You're fixated on a piece of minutiae and you're trying to impose your pinhole narrow vision of what piety and masculinity looks like on everyone else.  I'm grateful to God I'm in the Orthodox Church - where the clean-shaven youth and Grandpas I mentioned earlier are not judged to be effeminate or impious - and not the Porterdox Church, and that your weirdness doesn't apply to anyone but those you have the power to impose your strange Amish Paradise worldview on.  I seriously feel sorry for them.
 

DeniseDenise

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Porter ODoran said:
DeniseDenise said:
Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
TheTrisagion said:
Beard arguments. We've all been there, amirite?
To me, it's just silly.  I know too many devout, sincere contemporary Orthodox Christians who shave to impugn their piety and even their masculinity based on something so trivial.  I'm thinking here not only of some of the young Coptic medical students and other future professionals I serve in my own ministry, but also of some individuals of my Grandfather's generation who I would bet the farm entered into Paradise upon their repose, and whose prayers I am not ashamed to ask in my daily life. I doubt that when they went before the Throne, God asked them why they hadn't grown in their beards. I've seen my share of converts who think they have to dress like 19th century Russian peasants in order to be Orthodox - and there does seem to be some overlap there with the hipster movement - and yeah, I find that irksome, but mostly the reason I took this thread as personally as I did is because the notion that a shaven face is some sort of shorthand for a lack of piety or masculinity is not only shallow but insulting to too many people I know for a fact are good, sincere, and pious Orthodox Christians.  Forgive me if I reacted vigorously.  My virile, bristling beard got the better of me!  ;)
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like? I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy), but, on the other hand, I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.

Leave it to you to bring the female chest into this...
The subject had come up quite a bit earlier. The fact is the beard is a male secondary sex characteristic, as enlarged breasts are a female secondary sex characteristic.

had come up...?????


no.....YOU brought it up....because you had to turn a rather funny conversation (stupid, but funny) into 'secondary' sex characteristics...




Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Alpo said:
RaphaCam said:
lol my girlfriend wants me to shave because some chick she just pretended to like told her it looks manly
Leave her. No godly woman would told man to shave.
Is the reverse true in your weird hipster world where Ned Kelly beards and handlebar moustaches are all the rage for reasons that have nothing to do with piety?  No "godly" man would tell a woman to shave her legs or pits?
What's that got to do with anything? Both men and women have armpit hair. Men's beards are different: they're a secondary sex characteristic, like enlarged breasts for women. You tell a man he had to remove a male sex characteristic and you demean him as a male.
 

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Iconodule said:
Right, just a dab of Gillette and you can shave them right off.
Binding them was popular as recently as the 1920s. Choosing models with abnormally small breasts is sometimes part of the "heroin chic" fashion look which has (for some reason) persisted since the '80s.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy)
Rather, any miscommunication in this exchange has been due entirely to your inability to read and process the statements of your interlocutors coupled with your inability to recognize and ameliorate your self-righteous hypocrisy.  I never asserted that you considered shaving a "categorical sin" even as I never made a number of other arguments you've assigned to me in this discourse.  Rather, I stated that I found your idea that shaving was both emasculating and indicative of an inherent impiety to be laughable.  You're either blinded by your own hubris or you simply don't read for accuracy.  Either way, trying to hold a discussion with you is a frustrating endeavor, since all you have to offer is miserable bile with no accompanying wit or wisdom.

Porter ODoran said:
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like?...I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
LOL!!!  You're hilarious!  Thanks for treating us to another your trademark illogical leaps, like when you compared shaving to a mastectomy.  So because - in your vision of the Eschaton - all men will be bearded when in their perfect bodies, all men should be bearded here on earth, and in the case of those who are not, this is indicative of emasculation and impiety, right?  In the World to Come will we be naked as Adam in the Garden?  If so, should we strut our stuff in the buff down here?  Will we eat animals?  If not, should we all turn vegan?  If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?  Since it is obviously the "visible will of God" for women to have hair under their arms and on their legs - and presumably they will appear this way in the World to Come - are women who groom themselves in such a fashion impious and contrary to genuine femininity as envisioned by the Creator?  Are painted toenails an affront to God?  How about shoes, since God made us to walk barefoot?  How about pants, Preacher Porter?  Don't you hate pants?  How far do we take this grooming thing?  If shaving the face is wrong, how about trimming the beard, or trimming the hair?  Why not go full Rasta?  St. Paul said long hair on the head of a man is a shame, but will there be scissors and combs in the Heavenly Jerusalem?  You're fixated on a piece of minutiae and you're trying to impose your pinhole narrow vision of what piety and masculinity looks like on everyone else.  I'm grateful to God I'm in the Orthodox Church - where the clean-shaven youth and Grandpas I mentioned earlier are not judged to be effeminate or impious - and not the Porterdox Church, and that your weirdness doesn't apply to anyone but those you have the power to impose your strange Amish Paradise worldview on.  I seriously feel sorry for them.
You seem so torn between making an exhibition of all your various peeves and trying to earn my attention. I'd say pick one and stick with it for a while before you have an aneurysm.
 

DeniseDenise

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Lets go with....


Why you gotta make every conversation about sex and female body parts...?


It's annoying and frankly just as objectifying of the WHOLE person as the people wanting women to dress scantily....
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy)
Rather, any miscommunication in this exchange has been due entirely to your inability to read and process the statements of your interlocutors coupled with your inability to recognize and ameliorate your self-righteous hypocrisy.  I never asserted that you considered shaving a "categorical sin" even as I never made a number of other arguments you've assigned to me in this discourse.  Rather, I stated that I found your idea that shaving was both emasculating and indicative of an inherent impiety to be laughable.  You're either blinded by your own hubris or you simply don't read for accuracy.  Either way, trying to hold a discussion with you is a frustrating endeavor, since all you have to offer is miserable bile with no accompanying wit or wisdom.

Porter ODoran said:
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like?...I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
LOL!!!  You're hilarious!  Thanks for treating us to another your trademark illogical leaps, like when you compared shaving to a mastectomy.  So because - in your vision of the Eschaton - all men will be bearded when in their perfect bodies, all men should be bearded here on earth, and in the case of those who are not, this is indicative of emasculation and impiety, right?  In the World to Come will we be naked as Adam in the Garden?  If so, should we strut our stuff in the buff down here?  Will we eat animals?  If not, should we all turn vegan?  If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?  Since it is obviously the "visible will of God" for women to have hair under their arms and on their legs - and presumably they will appear this way in the World to Come - are women who groom themselves in such a fashion impious and contrary to genuine femininity as envisioned by the Creator?  Are painted toenails an affront to God?  How about shoes, since God made us to walk barefoot?  How about pants, Preacher Porter?  Don't you hate pants?  How far do we take this grooming thing?  If shaving the face is wrong, how about trimming the beard, or trimming the hair?  Why not go full Rasta?  St. Paul said long hair on the head of a man is a shame, but will there be scissors and combs in the Heavenly Jerusalem?  You're fixated on a piece of minutiae and you're trying to impose your pinhole narrow vision of what piety and masculinity looks like on everyone else.  I'm grateful to God I'm in the Orthodox Church - where the clean-shaven youth and Grandpas I mentioned earlier are not judged to be effeminate or impious - and not the Porterdox Church, and that your weirdness doesn't apply to anyone but those you have the power to impose your strange Amish Paradise worldview on.  I seriously feel sorry for them.
You seem so torn between making an exhibition of all your various peeves and trying to earn my attention. I'd say pick one and stick with it for a while before you have an aneurysm.
Deflection fail.  Try again.

I see how you operate now.  You make some illogical or factually inaccurate assertion - like, say, that all the beardless saints I cited previously were basically slaves who had no choice in the matter - and when some one calls you on it, instead of rebuttal, acknowledging the mistake, or any other kind of actual communication, you do what you're doing here.

Like Iconodule said, you're just picking needless fights.  Nothing better to do, huh?
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have no illusions that shaving is a categorical sin (that was all your fancy)
Rather, any miscommunication in this exchange has been due entirely to your inability to read and process the statements of your interlocutors coupled with your inability to recognize and ameliorate your self-righteous hypocrisy.  I never asserted that you considered shaving a "categorical sin" even as I never made a number of other arguments you've assigned to me in this discourse.  Rather, I stated that I found your idea that shaving was both emasculating and indicative of an inherent impiety to be laughable.  You're either blinded by your own hubris or you simply don't read for accuracy.  Either way, trying to hold a discussion with you is a frustrating endeavor, since all you have to offer is miserable bile with no accompanying wit or wisdom.

Porter ODoran said:
The better question isn't whether God judges this or that, before his Throne, but what the saints in bliss before his Throne are like?...I'm quite willing to assert that there would be no shaved male faces in Paradise anymore than there would be any female bound (that is, corseted to be flat, as has sometimes been the fashion) breasts. The will of God for creation is quite visible in his creation, if only one can calm down enough to contemplate it.
LOL!!!  You're hilarious!  Thanks for treating us to another your trademark illogical leaps, like when you compared shaving to a mastectomy.  So because - in your vision of the Eschaton - all men will be bearded when in their perfect bodies, all men should be bearded here on earth, and in the case of those who are not, this is indicative of emasculation and impiety, right?  In the World to Come will we be naked as Adam in the Garden?  If so, should we strut our stuff in the buff down here?  Will we eat animals?  If not, should we all turn vegan?  If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?  Since it is obviously the "visible will of God" for women to have hair under their arms and on their legs - and presumably they will appear this way in the World to Come - are women who groom themselves in such a fashion impious and contrary to genuine femininity as envisioned by the Creator?  Are painted toenails an affront to God?  How about shoes, since God made us to walk barefoot?  How about pants, Preacher Porter?  Don't you hate pants?  How far do we take this grooming thing?  If shaving the face is wrong, how about trimming the beard, or trimming the hair?  Why not go full Rasta?  St. Paul said long hair on the head of a man is a shame, but will there be scissors and combs in the Heavenly Jerusalem?  You're fixated on a piece of minutiae and you're trying to impose your pinhole narrow vision of what piety and masculinity looks like on everyone else.  I'm grateful to God I'm in the Orthodox Church - where the clean-shaven youth and Grandpas I mentioned earlier are not judged to be effeminate or impious - and not the Porterdox Church, and that your weirdness doesn't apply to anyone but those you have the power to impose your strange Amish Paradise worldview on.  I seriously feel sorry for them.
You seem so torn between making an exhibition of all your various peeves and trying to earn my attention. I'd say pick one and stick with it for a while before you have an aneurysm.
Deflection fail.  Try again.

I see how you operate now.  You make some illogical or factually inaccurate assertion - like, say, that all the beardless saints I cited previously were basically slaves who had no choice in the matter - and when some one calls you on it, instead of rebuttal, acknowledging the mistake, or any other kind of actual communication, you do what you're doing here.

Like Iconodule said, you're just picking needless fights.  Nothing better to do, huh?
Soldiers.

Are you enjoying this?
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Soldiers.
Meaning what?  That they had no choice in whether or not they shaved?  As previously stated, none of those men were conscripts.  They came from elite families and chose to enter the military of their own volition.  If they chose careers which required them to shave, is that a sign of impiety?  Have they voluntarily emasculated themselves by choosing such a career?  What about the other non-martial saints whose icons I posted?  What are your reasons for dismissing them?

While we're at it, why not answer the questions about following your eschatological logic to its natural conclusion in the previous post?  Or would you care to simply deflect again?

Porter ODoran said:
Are you enjoying this?
It's never enjoyable when someone makes an assertion and is then either unwilling or unable to back it up, so they resort to the diversionary tactics you're employing here.  I don't believe your position has any merit.  I'd like to see you present a compelling alternative view that we can discuss, but it seems that all you're capable of are expositions of your vision of the afterlife and diversionary one-liners.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?
I'm going commando from this moment on, just in case. 
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?
I'm going commando from this moment on, just in case.
This is why the Speedo is mandated in Holy Russia as a compromise. All other swimwear is emasculating and impious.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
If "corseting the breasts" is wrong, is wearing any kind of garment which mitigates the free movement of all our dangly appendages flying in the face of God's plan for our anatomy?
I'm going commando from this moment on, just in case.


There is likely a tollhouse on this....
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Right, just a dab of Gillette and you can shave them right off.
Binding them was popular as recently as the 1920s. Choosing models with abnormally small breasts is sometimes part of the "heroin chic" fashion look which has (for some reason) persisted since the '80s.
Keep speaking truth to this modernist nonsense, brother. I remember those days well, when even men didn't even dare to wear short sleeves. Now they run around with their nipples hanging out while they mow the lawn.

I would like to correct you though, because your analysis doesn't go far enough. These evil drugs sent to us by the dark lord Satan aren't what are solely responsible for small breasts in our women. It's symptomatic of this evil birth control culture. If they can't get pregnant, then those with small breasts won't grow into bigger breasts. Hedonism is the idolatry of personal pleasure.

If everyone were true Greeks like us, they'd open their eyes and realize that REAL men don't shave their beards and REAL women go out of their way to stay perpetually pregnant.
 

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Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Right, just a dab of Gillette and you can shave them right off.
Binding them was popular as recently as the 1920s. Choosing models with abnormally small breasts is sometimes part of the "heroin chic" fashion look which has (for some reason) persisted since the '80s.
Keep speaking truth to this modernist nonsense, brother. I remember those days well, when even men didn't even dare to wear short sleeves. Now they run around with their nipples hanging out while they mow the lawn.

I would like to correct you though, because your analysis doesn't go far enough. These evil drugs sent to us by the dark lord Satan aren't what are solely responsible for small breasts in our women. It's symptomatic of this evil birth control culture. If they can't get pregnant, then those with small breasts won't grow into bigger breasts. Hedonism is the idolatry of personal pleasure.

If everyone were true Greeks like us, they'd open their eyes and realize that REAL men don't shave their beards and REAL women go out of their way to stay perpetually pregnant.
How hard it is to get pregnant -- and you make it sound very hard -- can sometimes have less to do with your woman and more to do with you.
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Right, just a dab of Gillette and you can shave them right off.
Binding them was popular as recently as the 1920s. Choosing models with abnormally small breasts is sometimes part of the "heroin chic" fashion look which has (for some reason) persisted since the '80s.
Keep speaking truth to this modernist nonsense, brother. I remember those days well, when even men didn't even dare to wear short sleeves. Now they run around with their nipples hanging out while they mow the lawn.

I would like to correct you though, because your analysis doesn't go far enough. These evil drugs sent to us by the dark lord Satan aren't what are solely responsible for small breasts in our women. It's symptomatic of this evil birth control culture. If they can't get pregnant, then those with small breasts won't grow into bigger breasts. Hedonism is the idolatry of personal pleasure.

If everyone were true Greeks like us, they'd open their eyes and realize that REAL men don't shave their beards and REAL women go out of their way to stay perpetually pregnant.
How hard it is to get pregnant -- and you make it sound very hard -- can sometimes have less to do with your woman and more to do with you.
Rohzek said:
This attention is flattering, but hardly to the point of the thread.
 

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Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
Rohzek said:
Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Right, just a dab of Gillette and you can shave them right off.
Binding them was popular as recently as the 1920s. Choosing models with abnormally small breasts is sometimes part of the "heroin chic" fashion look which has (for some reason) persisted since the '80s.
Keep speaking truth to this modernist nonsense, brother. I remember those days well, when even men didn't even dare to wear short sleeves. Now they run around with their nipples hanging out while they mow the lawn.

I would like to correct you though, because your analysis doesn't go far enough. These evil drugs sent to us by the dark lord Satan aren't what are solely responsible for small breasts in our women. It's symptomatic of this evil birth control culture. If they can't get pregnant, then those with small breasts won't grow into bigger breasts. Hedonism is the idolatry of personal pleasure.

If everyone were true Greeks like us, they'd open their eyes and realize that REAL men don't shave their beards and REAL women go out of their way to stay perpetually pregnant.
How hard it is to get pregnant -- and you make it sound very hard -- can sometimes have less to do with your woman and more to do with you.
Rohzek said:
This attention is flattering, but hardly to the point of the thread.
 

mcarmichael

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(politics removed)


mcarmichael,

Politics are not permitted in public areas of the forum. Because you have been warned about this in the past, I am imposing a warning of +25 points.

If you wish to appeal this decision, you may do so by PMing me.

-ZZ, Other Topics Mod
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Still that desperately bored, friend Antonious?
Still impervious to reason and devoid of content, Porter?
I'm curious what you expect me to say. Are you actually expressing hatred for me?

Still, you could do with some abandon of reason yourself. I mean, in a fun way, not in this obsessive way. Since this is the Random Postings thread after all.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
I'm curious what you expect me to say.
Hopefully something germane to the discussion and devoid of the snark and bile you usually substitute for actual content.  You could start by answering some of the direct questions put to you.

Porter ODoran said:
Are you actually expressing hatred for me?
Hatred?  Not at all.  Like Iconodule and Rohzek, however, I've just learned the hard way of your penchant for making enemies of potential allies and stirring up controversy for its own sake.  In fact, Rohzek put it best.  His words are just as applicable here as they were in the thread in which he made them:

Rohzek said:
[Y]our refusal to acknowledge this elementary fact is not based upon any actual contrary opinions of your own. It's part of a long trend that you have had on these forums in which you must demonstrate your absolutely incomprehensible pride to always take a contrarian position on every thread in these forums and to make almost everything an argument.
Porter ODoran said:
Still, you could do with some abandon of reason yourself. I mean, in a fun way, not in this obsessive way. Since this is the Random Postings thread after all.
You were quite happy to carry on a serious discussion in this thread until it became apparent that you didn't know what you were talking about and had spent what little ammunition you had apart from your personal opinions on what constitutes manliness and piety, and how hirsute we'll all be in the World to Come.  And speaking of "obsessive", it seems as if you're running around these boards obsessively picking needless fights over trivial matters related to your personal hang-ups lately.  What's up with that?
 
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