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RobS

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Porter ODoran said:
I'm not good at a lot of things, but money is what I'm not good at the most.
Welcome to the club.
 

Alpo

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minasoliman said:
Pretty much what happened to the EOs about 1-2 centuries ago being in "western captivity" happened to us later, and we are just starting to have our own "neo-patristic" Renaissance.  In other words, de ja vu of the EOs as is occuring with Copts with the added layer of social media exacerbating the effect.
Just don't go to the other extreme as we have done. Much of the so-called western captivity isn't actually that bad.
 

minasoliman

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Some things like deemphasizing the crucifixion and getting rid of all juridical language is probably what he's alluding to.  I tend to agree, and I take a nuanced approach to the subject of soteriology, but I do emphasize theosis as foundational to soteriology.

Dr. George Bebawy, and I love him, does tend to take that very extreme approach though.
 

Alpo

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minasoliman said:
Some things like deemphasizing the crucifixion and getting rid of all juridical language is probably what he's alluding to. 
Pretty much this. Doing away with Original Sin, bashing Augustine, neglecting systematic theology etc.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Alpo said:
minasoliman said:
Some things like deemphasizing the crucifixion and getting rid of all juridical language is probably what he's alluding to. 
Pretty much this. Doing away with Original Sin, bashing Augustine, neglecting systematic theology etc.
There are elements of St. Augustine that are problematic.  This can be recognized without bashing him.  And the Western concept of "original sin" (as opposed to ancestral sin) is not something I subscribe to, nor something I would teach my youth.  I don't want them to think we inherit Adam's sin as opposed to its consequences (death, etc.).  I also think the crucifixion should only be contemplated in relation to the ultimate triumph and Resurrection of Christ.  I see your and Mina's point though.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Alpo said:
minasoliman said:
Pretty much what happened to the EOs about 1-2 centuries ago being in "western captivity" happened to us later, and we are just starting to have our own "neo-patristic" Renaissance.  In other words, de ja vu of the EOs as is occuring with Copts with the added layer of social media exacerbating the effect.
Just don't go to the other extreme as we have done. Much of the so-called western captivity isn't actually that bad.
I would strongly recommend Chalcedonianism and the Religion of the Future by Fr Mina El Solimani. 
 

minasoliman

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I accept preorders...to be part of my early bird kickstarter, just send me your name, credit card, CVV number, address, social security, bank account and routing numbers, mother's maiden name, and date of birth...

And TRUST me.  I'm an Egyptian (not Nigerian) prince and who left the vain world for the deserts  :angel:
 

Mor Ephrem

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minasoliman said:
I accept preorders...to be part of my early bird kickstarter, just send me your name, credit card, CVV number, address, social security, bank account and routing numbers, mother's maiden name, and date of birth...

And TRUST me.  I'm an Egyptian (not Nigerian) prince and who left the vain world for the deserts  :angel:
You will always be my Pharaoh. 
 

Ainnir

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nothing said:
Porter ODoran said:
I'm not good at a lot of things, but money is what I'm not good at the most.
Welcome to the club.
Money is water and life is a sieve.  :-\
 

TheTrisagion

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Porter ODoran said:
I'm not good at a lot of things, but money is what I'm not good at the most.
I felt like for the first 33 years of my life, things were alway really tight, and then about 4 years ago, I got a new job and all my finances fell into place. For the first time in my life, I finally don't have to stress about money any more. We are still really frugal out of habit, but at least now its not to survive.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
Porter ODoran said:
I'm not good at a lot of things, but money is what I'm not good at the most.
I felt like for the first 33 years of my life, things were alway really tight, and then about 4 years ago, I got a new job and all my finances fell into place. For the first time in my life, I finally don't have to stress about money any more. We are still really frugal out of habit, but at least now its not to survive.
I love to hear this! And thank God on your behalf. However, keeping in mind that only about 5% of the population earns enough to be "comfortable," I feel almost intellectually dishonest, not to mention unempathetic, hoping for a similar good fate. If extended families lived (relatively) together and supported each other, the situation can still be okay, but unfortunately I'm like so many Americans -- completely fragmented from family and community. Lord, have mercy on us all.
 

Porter ODoran

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It doesn't help that I'm trying to make a living in technology, the only place I have experience, when I suffer from cognitive impairment. Each week I feel the gig is up and I'll be canned. I hold my breath for the day I have to live on the street or cross the country to find a relative to take me in. The suspense is so painful I want just to give in to that eventuality right now, but of course the part wherein I lose my little daughters makes that impossible. So I carry on. God save us.
 

RobS

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Porter ODoran said:
It doesn't help that I'm trying to make a living in technology, the only place I have experience, when I suffer from cognitive impairment. Each week I feel the gig is up and I'll be canned. I hold my breath for the day I have to live on the street or cross the country to find a relative to take me in. The suspense is so painful I want just to give in to that eventuality right now, but of course the part wherein I lose my little daughters makes that impossible. So I carry on. God save us.
If it's any solace, well not really but still, most if not nearly all Americans are in precarious situations with varying degrees. Who isn't a precariat these days? It is so easy to lose everything you have very quickly if you lose your job. The level of insecurity Americans face it's no surprise how stressed out one can get which wrecks havoc on the psyche.

So you have my deepest sympathies. I don't know what each week is like for you, but if what you say is true, maybe you can elaborate on your anxiety of getting fired. How horrible it is to be in a state of dreadful suspense.
 

TheTrisagion

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:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
 

Porter ODoran

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TheTrisagion said:
:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
Well, don't feel guilty as long as you help folks out with time and treasure when you can. It's not like you're hoarding or splurging vast quantities. The truth is more should be situated as you are. And the truth is that this is part of your salvation story -- everybody has his or her own -- sometimes Christ prunes and sometimes Christ fertilizes (according to the parable of the gardener and the fruit trees).
 

RobS

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TheTrisagion said:
:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
Survivor's guilt for me comes from experience, being keenly aware of how lucky you have it, and politically leftwing, unfortunately. One of Fr. Hopko's maxims I have to keep reminding myself is not to compare myself with others, because it's real easy to see the amount of suffering and hardship people go through and not getting depressed about it. Iconodule is right, if you live in this world how can you not feel even a little depressed. I've asked God before the why things are the way they are and why I'm more fortunate than others, but it's not really any of my business what He does. God's ways are not my ways. Wicked people can prosper and those that are godly can suffer. All I can do is give thanksgiving to God for what He has provided me and use whatever that have been given me to help those in need, instead of trying to figure things out (another Fr. Hopko maxim). There's peace in that, at least it is for me. Trust me I've let my mind wander into the darkest of places over these kind of things but all it did was fuel cynicism.
 

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nothing said:
TheTrisagion said:
:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
Survivor's guilt for me comes from experience, being keenly aware of how lucky you have it, and politically leftwing, unfortunately. One of Fr. Hopko's maxims I have to keep reminding myself is not to compare myself with others, because it's real easy to see the amount of suffering and hardship people go through and not getting depressed about it. Iconodule is right, if you live in this world how can you not feel even a little depressed. I've asked God before the why things are the way they are and why I'm more fortunate than others, but it's not really any of my business what He does. God's ways are not my ways. Wicked people can prosper and those that are godly can suffer. All I can do is give thanksgiving to God for what He has provided me and use whatever that have been given me to help those in need, instead of trying to figure things out (another Fr. Hopko maxim). There's peace in that, at least it is for me. Trust me I've let my mind wander into the darkest of places over these kind of things but all it did was fuel cynicism.
Observe little children. They are sad and distraught when some disappointment or disaster falls on them, but normally they are happy. The bad thing comes as a surprise, is reacted to in a very open way that cleanses the soul, and soon forgotten. It is only when we grow smart enough to pride ourselves on an ability to know the world, to analyze things politically, to predict trends, and so on that we grow to inhabit apprehensiveness and depression as normal. While at the same time, normally, we hide our emotions and suppress their natural cleansing function. In short, we lead unnatural lives, because we are grown and modern, and thus we grow to be unnatural organisms and suffer unduly.
 

Asteriktos

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scofflaw

a person who flouts the law, especially by failing to comply with a law that is difficult to enforce effectively
 

RobS

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Porter ODoran said:
nothing said:
TheTrisagion said:
:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
Survivor's guilt for me comes from experience, being keenly aware of how lucky you have it, and politically leftwing, unfortunately. One of Fr. Hopko's maxims I have to keep reminding myself is not to compare myself with others, because it's real easy to see the amount of suffering and hardship people go through and not getting depressed about it. Iconodule is right, if you live in this world how can you not feel even a little depressed. I've asked God before the why things are the way they are and why I'm more fortunate than others, but it's not really any of my business what He does. God's ways are not my ways. Wicked people can prosper and those that are godly can suffer. All I can do is give thanksgiving to God for what He has provided me and use whatever that have been given me to help those in need, instead of trying to figure things out (another Fr. Hopko maxim). There's peace in that, at least it is for me. Trust me I've let my mind wander into the darkest of places over these kind of things but all it did was fuel cynicism.
Observe little children. They are sad and distraught when some disappointment or disaster falls on them, but normally they are happy. The bad thing comes as a surprise, is reacted to in a very open way that cleanses the soul, and soon forgotten. It is only when we grow smart enough to pride ourselves on an ability to know the world, to analyze things politically, to predict trends, and so on that we grow to inhabit apprehensiveness and depression as normal. While at the same time, normally, we hide our emotions and suppress their natural cleansing function. In short, we lead unnatural lives, because we are grown and modern, and thus we grow to be unnatural organisms and suffer unduly.
Thanks Porter, I appreciate this post. I bolded what highlights a big problem I've had as of late. Although I feel I'm making some progress overcoming that obstacle and receiving the kingdom like a child.
 

Alpo

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My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
 

RobS

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Russian icons are beautiful, probably my favorite kind.
 

RobS

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Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
 

Hawkeye

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nothing said:
TheTrisagion said:
:'(

I do feel almost guilty because I hear of so many people struggling. I try to help those around me that I know because I've been there myself.
Survivor's guilt for me comes from experience, being keenly aware of how lucky you have it, and politically leftwing, unfortunately. One of Fr. Hopko's maxims I have to keep reminding myself is not to compare myself with others, because it's real easy to see the amount of suffering and hardship people go through and not getting depressed about it. Iconodule is right, if you live in this world how can you not feel even a little depressed. I've asked God before the why things are the way they are and why I'm more fortunate than others, but it's not really any of my business what He does. God's ways are not my ways. Wicked people can prosper and those that are godly can suffer. All I can do is give thanksgiving to God for what He has provided me and use whatever that have been given me to help those in need, instead of trying to figure things out (another Fr. Hopko maxim). There's peace in that, at least it is for me. Trust me I've let my mind wander into the darkest of places over these kind of things but all it did was fuel cynicism.
The question of God's mercy has occupied my mind for years. Time and time again, I have been spared suffering I believe I have absolutely deserved. Recent events and future possibilities have made me acutely aware of these mercies, and I am flabbergasted by them. I don't know if it is simply vain fancy on my part or if it is indeed the hand of God pushing me in a certain direction, and whether He always was. I know myself to be unworthy, and though my priest assures me worthiness has little to do with it, I can't shake the feeling.
 

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Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
Yeah, what is it with them and their unwillingness to work themselves into the grave?
 

Iconodule

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Porter ODoran said:
There's one particularly shady guy that died a few years ago, made a fortune during the '60s, was even used by the government at one point, and who had the moral compass of Goebbels or B.F. Skinner. Oh to be young like you and have factoids at the tip of my tongue.
I know someone training as an applied behavior analyst and, of course, Skinner is the guru of the discipline. She and I agree that the man's general outlook and philosophy are monstrous. She finds behavioralism depressing in general; however, she looks at it as a career path to get out of her present special ed position that she's been trying to escape for years.

The usual defense of Skinner, as with a lot of poisonous ideas, is "But it works!" I think there is a general feeling in our society that, if a given discipline or technology is useful, it is necessary to accept everything behind it.
 

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Agabus said:
nothing said:
Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
Yeah, what is it with them and their unwillingness to work themselves into the grave?
I wish Americans could have the same attitude. :(
 

minasoliman

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nothing said:
Agabus said:
nothing said:
Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
Yeah, what is it with them and their unwillingness to work themselves into the grave?
I wish Americans could have the same attitude. :(
In NJ you can get paternity leave...so make mad babies :p
 

RobS

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minasoliman said:
In NJ you can get paternity leave...so make mad babies :p
Lord only knows I'll probably have atleast 7 children sometime soon...God has a wicked sense of humor...
 

Porter ODoran

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Iconodule said:
Porter ODoran said:
There's one particularly shady guy that died a few years ago, made a fortune during the '60s, was even used by the government at one point, and who had the moral compass of Goebbels or B.F. Skinner. Oh to be young like you and have factoids at the tip of my tongue.
I know someone training as an applied behavior analyst and, of course, Skinner is the guru of the discipline. She and I agree that the man's general outlook and philosophy are monstrous. She finds behavioralism depressing in general; however, she looks at it as a career path to get out of her present special ed position that she's been trying to escape for years.

The usual defense of Skinner, as with a lot of poisonous ideas, is "But it works!" I think there is a general feeling in our society that, if a given discipline or technology is useful, it is necessary to accept everything behind it.
What works? He came up with nothing practical. He just tortured pigeons, kept his infant daughter in a steel box, and wrote pseudo-philosophical books to mock religion. Other men and women are responsible for so-called cognitive-behavioral therapy, which began in the '70s. Of course classes pay tribute to him, because America worships all its most evil men. And many of other countries. Something people should know it's that America led the world in evil scientists up until the Nazis stole the title.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Porter ODoran said:
There's one particularly shady guy that died a few years ago, made a fortune during the '60s, was even used by the government at one point, and who had the moral compass of Goebbels or B.F. Skinner. Oh to be young like you and have factoids at the tip of my tongue.
I know someone training as an applied behavior analyst and, of course, Skinner is the guru of the discipline. She and I agree that the man's general outlook and philosophy are monstrous. She finds behavioralism depressing in general; however, she looks at it as a career path to get out of her present special ed position that she's been trying to escape for years.

The usual defense of Skinner, as with a lot of poisonous ideas, is "But it works!" I think there is a general feeling in our society that, if a given discipline or technology is useful, it is necessary to accept everything behind it.
What works? He came up with nothing practical. He just tortured pigeons, kept his infant daughter in a steel box, and wrote pseudo-philosophical books to mock religion. Other men and women are responsible for so-called cognitive-behavioral therapy, which began in the '70s. Of course classes pay tribute to him, because America worships all its most evil men. And many of other countries. Something people should know it's that America led the world in evil scientists up until the Nazis stole the title.
I like you.  :)
 

Asteriktos

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Porter ODoran said:
Something people should know it's that America led the world in evil scientists up until the Nazis stole the title.
Odd then, that the behavioralists were at the forefront of blocking scientific progress (especially medical/psychological) for decades.
 

Iconodule

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Porter ODoran said:
Iconodule said:
Porter ODoran said:
There's one particularly shady guy that died a few years ago, made a fortune during the '60s, was even used by the government at one point, and who had the moral compass of Goebbels or B.F. Skinner. Oh to be young like you and have factoids at the tip of my tongue.
I know someone training as an applied behavior analyst and, of course, Skinner is the guru of the discipline. She and I agree that the man's general outlook and philosophy are monstrous. She finds behavioralism depressing in general; however, she looks at it as a career path to get out of her present special ed position that she's been trying to escape for years.

The usual defense of Skinner, as with a lot of poisonous ideas, is "But it works!" I think there is a general feeling in our society that, if a given discipline or technology is useful, it is necessary to accept everything behind it.
What works? He came up with nothing practical. He just tortured pigeons, kept his infant daughter in a steel box, and wrote pseudo-philosophical books to mock religion. Other men and women are responsible for so-called cognitive-behavioral therapy, which began in the '70s. Of course classes pay tribute to him, because America worships all its most evil men. And many of other countries. Something people should know it's that America led the world in evil scientists up until the Nazis stole the title.
And then we stole the Nazi scientists!
 

Alpo

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nothing said:
Agabus said:
nothing said:
Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
Yeah, what is it with them and their unwillingness to work themselves into the grave?
I wish Americans could have the same attitude. :(
Give your unions more power and vote Communists to your parliament and you probably have similar laws in no time. That's how we got ours.
 

Porter ODoran

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Alpo said:
nothing said:
Agabus said:
nothing said:
Alpo said:
My holiday of four weeks is over and I have to get back to work tomorrow. Unfortunately for some reason my flu also got worse. Wish it was as bad that I could take a sick leave.
Curse you Europeans and generous time off!
Yeah, what is it with them and their unwillingness to work themselves into the grave?
I wish Americans could have the same attitude. :(
Give your unions more power and vote Communists to your parliament and you probably have similar laws in no time. That's how we got ours.
We were a huge part of international labor movement. Got stamped out by Woodrow Wilson who used WWI as an excuse to exercise extraordinary powers.
 
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