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William T

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Iconodule said:
William T said:
Cyrillic said:
William T said:
Porter ODoran said:
Don't see how you could get much joy out of any of these guys. They seem just -- evil. There have to be better comedians out there.
the evil world according to Porter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSsUoxlSADk

or maybe this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHash5takWU

Anywho, Bill Hicks is probably one of the top 20 stand ups.  I've heard about the Leary plagiarism, but I tend to not trust artists when they say someone stole something from them.  That's a famous artist war cry.
Having your teeth pulled out is more enjoyable than watching 99% of comedians.
It may be a peculiarly English speaking world phenomenon.  Generally speaking though, most people will only enjoy about 5% of any given genre of anything and not care about the rest.  But as most anyone who has gone to random comedy shows or amateur nights will tell you, that 1% of comdiens being good may be an over-estimation.  It's a very tough trade.
Right, any genre of entertainment with a modicum of following is going to be flooded with mediocrity (see Sturgeon's law).

What's frustrating though is when some of the worst acts also happen to become some of the most popular.
Indeed, cosmic injustice and tragedy abounds in the arts. This seems almost normative.  It stinks too that a lot of times you only get credit after you die or retire.

Though musically there seems to be a kind of Faustian twist to even the old norms:

I was joking to my old band mate the other day how there is now essentially a punk rock "Dick Clark Golden Oldies" demand right now which is so ironic.  I think the punk rock ethos generally had it right, and now that's selling out and listening to this a lot of stuff seems decontextualized and anodyne anymore (some of this comes with age, but I think some has come with cultural shifts / the internet as well)...not that I can blame any of these guys.  If someone offered me 100K to do a tour, I would.

Thinking about this I think the obvious corporate model has a lot to do with sucking the life out of things, but I think there is more to it than that as well.  General "taste making" Salon  cultures will always be with us, and the internet adds a new element to the mix for better and worse
 

William T

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Porter ODoran said:
Somebody takes loud guitar noises very seriously.
If you grow up trying to do something for a decade and that was your introduction and formation into things, yes you can take it seriously as it will be with you for life...you can even "talk shop" with other people with similar formations.  I was not born fully formed from Zeus' brow as Athena was.  I was not born with perfect taste or Orthodox sanctity.  You talk about folk music, but I don't think you understand how it comes about.

Anyway, I think a beer barrel needs smashing somewhere, and I think you are the right man for the job.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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William T said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
William T said:
Porter ODoran said:
Don't see how you could get much joy out of any of these guys. They seem just -- evil. There have to be better comedians out there.
the evil world according to Porter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSsUoxlSADk
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

William T said:
Anywho, Bill Hicks is probably one of the top 20 stand ups.  I've heard about the Leary plagiarism, but I tend to not trust artists when they say someone stole something from them.  That's a famous artist war cry.
In some cases, it's true though.  In the Mencia one, it was blatant.
no doubt it's true in some cases.  The dirty secret though is that all artists steal.  Things have to be really blatant in order to say someone got whole sale ripped off at someone else profit though.  Often times someone who gets famous off a certain style is not as good as the many people who came before them.  Often artists will say something like "X was much better Y and Y gets all the glory"...this statement is generally true, but I think it's just one of the more tragic aspects of life and a case of cosmic injustice.  Lots of artists only get famous and appreciated after they die (I think Bill Hicks may be one of those cases)
Agreed.

Porter ODoran said:
If it's evil, it's evil.
That seems a little subjective though.  I mean really, Steve Martin is evil?

Porter ODoran said:
Bruce Timm's Superman animated series are good enough for me. ;)
His Batman stuff too dark for you?  ;)

Porter ODoran said:
But to be serious, real art is not imaginative or provoking but a good job to do well -- what St. Paul calls beautiful work -- and best of all a job done together according to ancient guidelines. There is unspeakably more nourishment in working with my daughters to sing folk songs together than in any one of us consuming anything they headphones.
What feeds your soul might not be what feeds someone else's though, right?  Someone else might find genuine inspiration in something you find too rough around the edges because it contained a nude scene or something.
 

Porter ODoran

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Wow you're in a hurry to connect the dots. I said nothing about Steve Martin or nudity. I said let's call evil what is evil. A call to subjective honesty.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Wow you're in a hurry to connect the dots. I said nothing about Steve Martin or nudity. I said let's call evil what is evil. A call to subjective honesty.
Not at all.  I named a number of comedians I found funny - Dangerfield, Murphy, Martin - others added their picks, and you said, "I don't see how you can find these guys funny.  They're...evil." or something to that effect.  Am I wrong?
 

William T

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Wow you're in a hurry to connect the dots. I said nothing about Steve Martin or nudity. I said let's call evil what is evil. A call to subjective honesty.
Not at all.  I named a number of comedians I found funny - Dangerfield, Murphy, Martin - others added their picks, and you said, "I don't see how you can find these guys funny.  They're...evil." or something to that effect.  Am I wrong?
And when Porter had ended all his  inquistions he departed from Antonious for a season
 

Porter ODoran

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Wow you're in a hurry to connect the dots. I said nothing about Steve Martin or nudity. I said let's call evil what is evil. A call to subjective honesty.
Not at all.  I named a number of comedians I found funny - Dangerfield, Murphy, Martin - others added their picks, and you said, "I don't see how you can find these guys funny.  They're...evil." or something to that effect.  Am I wrong?
Oh. I only saw the discussion of the contemporary guys like Hicks and C.K.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Wow you're in a hurry to connect the dots. I said nothing about Steve Martin or nudity. I said let's call evil what is evil. A call to subjective honesty.
Not at all.  I named a number of comedians I found funny - Dangerfield, Murphy, Martin - others added their picks, and you said, "I don't see how you can find these guys funny.  They're...evil." or something to that effect.  Am I wrong?
Oh. I only saw the discussion of the contemporary guys like Hicks and C.K.
It was here.

Antonious Nikolas said:
Iconodule said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Who was (or is) the greatest comedian of the modern era?
I really love Bill Hicks, though I haven't seen many comedians good or bad to compare him with.
The guy who accused Denis Leary of stealing his material, right?

I love Rodney Dangerfield, Eddie Murphy, and Steve Martin.  Each brilliant in their own right.
So, I have to know...are my guys evil?
 

Porter ODoran

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Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
Cool.  ;D

And the "nude scene" thing wasn't a specific charge.  I was just trying to say that your ideas concerning what makes a piece of art evil might not make sense to someone else.  How do you make that determination?  I've had negative experiences with Evangelicals and Charismatics who brand all musical genres outside of Gospel and "Praise & Worship" to be of the devil, and I don't buy into that at all, so I'd kind of like to know what criteria you're using here.
 

minasoliman

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I think vulgarity tends to turn off certain people, which in a sense can be argued as evil.  There was once upon a time when comedy was good at making hints rather than be explicitly vulgar.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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minasoliman said:
I think vulgarity tends to turn off certain people, which in a sense can be argued as evil.  There was once upon a time when comedy was good at making hints rather than be explicitly vulgar.
I agree to a point.  I'm just not a great fan of the great pop Christian hustle.  "All of 'the world's' products are evil.  Don't take them into your 'eye-gate' or your 'ear-gate' or you're inviting Satan into your life!  Buy our product instead!  Kirk Franklin CDs and 'The War Room' on sale now in the church lobby!"
 

Porter ODoran

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
Cool.  ;D

And the "nude scene" thing wasn't a specific charge.  I was just trying to say that your ideas concerning what makes a piece of art evil might not make sense to someone else.  How do you make that determination?  I've had negative experiences with Evangelicals and Charismatics who brand all musical genres outside of Gospel and "Praise & Worship" to be of the devil, and I don't buy into that at all, so I'd kind of like to know what criteria you're using here.
What is good brings you growth and joy.
 

minasoliman

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Antonious Nikolas said:
minasoliman said:
I think vulgarity tends to turn off certain people, which in a sense can be argued as evil.  There was once upon a time when comedy was good at making hints rather than be explicitly vulgar.
I agree to a point.  I'm just not a great fan of the great pop Christian hustle.  "All of 'the world's' products are evil.  Don't take them into your 'eye-gate' or your 'ear-gate' or you're inviting Satan into your life!  Buy our product instead!  Kirk Franklin CDs and 'The War Room' on sale now in the church lobby!"
Agreed!
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
Cool.  ;D

And the "nude scene" thing wasn't a specific charge.  I was just trying to say that your ideas concerning what makes a piece of art evil might not make sense to someone else.  How do you make that determination?  I've had negative experiences with Evangelicals and Charismatics who brand all musical genres outside of Gospel and "Praise & Worship" to be of the devil, and I don't buy into that at all, so I'd kind of like to know what criteria you're using here.
What is good brings you growth and joy.
Agreed.  But if a work brings me growth and joy - in that it causes me to examine issues that might be troubling, but necessary to tackle - but you find the same work dark and foreboding, and perhaps even evil - where does that leave us?
 

Porter ODoran

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
Cool.  ;D

And the "nude scene" thing wasn't a specific charge.  I was just trying to say that your ideas concerning what makes a piece of art evil might not make sense to someone else.  How do you make that determination?  I've had negative experiences with Evangelicals and Charismatics who brand all musical genres outside of Gospel and "Praise & Worship" to be of the devil, and I don't buy into that at all, so I'd kind of like to know what criteria you're using here.
What is good brings you growth and joy.
Agreed.  But if a work brings me growth and joy - in that it causes me to examine issues that might be troubling, but necessary to tackle - but you find the same work dark and foreboding, and perhaps even evil - where does that leave us?
It probably leaves us with one of us having learnt from American pop culture to extenuate his own cynicism and secret suffering by thinking of it as sophisticated, and the other having recently gotten past that same phase. But I don't know for sure.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Porter ODoran said:
Not in the way I meant. And I find all those guys relatively funny.
Cool.  ;D

And the "nude scene" thing wasn't a specific charge.  I was just trying to say that your ideas concerning what makes a piece of art evil might not make sense to someone else.  How do you make that determination?  I've had negative experiences with Evangelicals and Charismatics who brand all musical genres outside of Gospel and "Praise & Worship" to be of the devil, and I don't buy into that at all, so I'd kind of like to know what criteria you're using here.
What is good brings you growth and joy.
Agreed.  But if a work brings me growth and joy - in that it causes me to examine issues that might be troubling, but necessary to tackle - but you find the same work dark and foreboding, and perhaps even evil - where does that leave us?
It probably leaves us with one of us having learnt from American pop culture to extenuate his own cynicism and secret suffering by thinking of it as sophisticated, and the other having recently gotten past that same phase. But I don't know for sure.
Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

 

Asteriktos

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mcarmichael said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
I might be moving to El Paso, TX.
On purpose!?
El Paso is a nice little spot actually.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I always associated it with sand and unbearable heat. But then I've never been in TX, let alone El Paso, so maybe I'm basing that on TV/movies.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
May God smash the teeth of Mor's enemies and put them under his feet.
Your enemies are my enemies.
The first time I really understood the power of the psalms came after a lady at my church testified that she had prayed that particular psalm and the next day her enemy fell and smashed her teeth on a curb.
 

Porter ODoran

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Agabus said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
May God smash the teeth of Mor's enemies and put them under his feet.
Your enemies are my enemies.
The first time I really understood the power of the psalms came after a lady at my church testified that she had prayed that particular psalm and the next day her enemy fell and smashed her teeth on a curb.
Wow! :laugh:
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
I might be moving to El Paso, TX.
On purpose!?
El Paso is a nice little spot actually.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I always associated it with sand and unbearable heat. But then I've never been in TX, let alone El Paso, so maybe I'm basing that on TV/movies.
That makes sense.  I've never seen you in the local area.

Iconodule said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
I might be moving to El Paso, TX.
On purpose!?
El Paso is a nice little spot actually.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I always associated it with sand and unbearable heat.
Don't forget bewitching Mexican barmaids and the gunfights they provoke.
How is it that we have so, so much in common?!?
 

minasoliman

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As the late HH Pope Shenouda once said, "Keep the Psalms and the Psalms will keep you...

...and will dash your enemies' faces on the curb."
 

Jetavan

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AntoniousNikolas

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It was touch and go there for awhile, but OC.NET is really starting to win me back.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
I might be moving to El Paso, TX.
On purpose!?
El Paso is a nice little spot actually.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I always associated it with sand and unbearable heat. But then I've never been in TX, let alone El Paso, so maybe I'm basing that on TV/movies.
That makes sense.  I've never seen you in the local area.
I guess I've seen inside the Dallas airport... probably couldn't see all the way down yonder way though  :angel:
 

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Asteriktos said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
Asteriktos said:
mcarmichael said:
I might be moving to El Paso, TX.
On purpose!?
El Paso is a nice little spot actually.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I always associated it with sand and unbearable heat. But then I've never been in TX, let alone El Paso, so maybe I'm basing that on TV/movies.
That makes sense.  I've never seen you in the local area.
I guess I've seen inside the Dallas airport... probably couldn't see all the way down yonder way though  :angel:
Never seen you in Granbury, Texas USA. >Waves!<
 

mcarmichael

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Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
Meatloaf

I've never understood it. Never liked it. I don't eat beef anymore, but when I did I just wanted steak or hamburger (or hamburger steak.) Meatloaf always seemed like a waste of good meat. I never got the concept. Am I the only one?

Selam
You are not alone. I'll eat meatloaf, and there's always leftover meatloaf, but I don't get it either.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Never seen you in Granbury, Texas USA. >Waves!<
My best friend lived in Granbury! Her family still does. Now she lives in Michigan, so let's all take a minute and say a prayer for her.
 

Mor Ephrem

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ZealousZeal said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Never seen you in Granbury, Texas USA. >Waves!<
My best friend lived in Granbury! Her family still does. Now she lives in Michigan, so let's all take a minute and say a prayer for her.
Praying every morning
             
                                                                AND evening.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
ZealousZeal said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Never seen you in Granbury, Texas USA. >Waves!<
My best friend lived in Granbury! Her family still does. Now she lives in Michigan, so let's all take a minute and say a prayer for her.
Praying every morning
             
                                                                AND evening.
.... it's important.
                                            prayer.

do

                    you pray?

                                                .... you've probably
NEVER


                        heard of it


.......                                            ....
 

Mor Ephrem

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ZealousZeal said:
Mor Ephrem said:
ZealousZeal said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Never seen you in Granbury, Texas USA. >Waves!<
My best friend lived in Granbury! Her family still does. Now she lives in Michigan, so let's all take a minute and say a prayer for her.
Praying every morning
             
                                                                AND evening.
.... it's important.
                                            prayer.

do

                    you pray?

                                                .... you've probably
NEVER


                        heard of it


.......                                            ....
Oooh baby...
 

mcarmichael

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That's not even a Haiku. Who is Mor Ephrem trying to impress?
 

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Guys, I don't think I want to live to a ripe old age. Maybe up to 50 and that's it. What's the benefit of living healthy when you are gonna get old, feeble, decrepit, deal with health issues etc anyway?

I'd rather burn out early.
 

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RobS said:
Guys, I don't think I want to live to a ripe old age. Maybe up to 50 and that's it. What's the benefit of living healthy when you are gonna get old, feeble, decrepit, deal with health issues etc anyway?

I'd rather burn out early.
I dunno, I am (surprise!) of two minds on this. You could argue that the answer to your quest is in part answered by the question itself: by "living healthily" you can postpone getting old feeble, etc. Someone who exercises and eats right and stretches and sleeps enough will (on average) have a better quality of life and live longer than people who don't. So, you put the number at age 50, but by doing all that 'healthy living' crap maybe you could push it to 55 or 60. Supposing the life you had in your late 50s was roughly the same as those non-healthy-livers in their late 40s who were approaching your cut-off, wouldn't the extra decade be worth it? You also gotta consider that for a lot of people the 'living healthy' is about more than just wanting to get to 80 or be able to pick up a box over your head at 70. Depression, diabetes, heart disease, etc. are all things that can start becoming a problem before you even get to middle age, and can be treated (sometimes better than with medicine) with various things that fall under healthy living.

It is true though that all that stuff can be a time-sink (depending on what you do), can cost more money, and can take your focus away from stuff you'd rather spend your time/energy on. One thing about dying at 50--when you get to 49 you might suddenly decide that, hey, maybe old age wouldn't be so bad after all (especially as comfort-tech/medicine continues to improve). But if you've lived your life in a poor way (I certainly have), you may have less of a say in what happens at that point; you'll have painted yourself into a corner. Not that I think everyone should run out and exercise and measure their food and count calories or whatever. I think people should think about whatever's best for them, and then ignore yahoos who tell them they're doing it wrong. Just wanted to give a opposing viewpoint though.

--EDIT: Just to add, I think for a lot of people 'living healthy' could amount to fairly small changes in their lives: sleep an extra 30-60 minutes a night (and make sure it's good sleep, like don't drink a bunch of stuff or caffeine right before bed), eat a better lunch (maybe instead of that fast food eat a half-pint of strawberries and half turkey sandwich), stretch once a day, talk a walk a few times a week, learn how to calm yourself when you get stressed.
 
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