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Raw meat

Myrrh23

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Anyone here ever eat raw meat before? I've started eating more raw non-meat food, but I'm curious if people really can safely eat raw meat (as opposed to rare steak, which I think is still cooked?).
 

Quinault

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it is best to eat any raw meat within a specific amount of time of the animal's demise to avoid illness.
 

LBK

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Unless you can be absolutely sure that the meat (and this includes chicken and fish) is free from bugs such as salmonella, parasites, etc, and has been kept at all times (from slaughter to storage for sale, to sale, to storage at home) at optimal temperature, then you're taking a risk of getting food poisoning. Which isn't fun.  :p

It should also be remembered that the human digestive system isn't geared for eating raw meat in even reasonable quantities. Even in tartare-type dishes, the meat is not eaten as is, but prepared with things like mustard, vinegar and other ingredients which help to "pickle" the meat. Rollmops and Bismarck herring are also made from raw fish, but are preserved and "cured" by the vinegar and spices.


 

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Perhaps some of our other Arab members can enlighten you on the wonder and glory that is kibbe nayeh.  I don't know anything about preparing it, I only know that it is delicious. 
 

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Nebelpfade said:
Yup, veal, buffalo and venison carpaccio.  All were great!   ;D
A couple years ago we took my mother-in-law to a local gastronomic delight called Cinghale where I had a veal carpaccio for the first time that still ranks among the most delicious things I have ever eaten.  The olive oil that accompanied the meat was so fresh it looked like it was almost glowing green.

The owner, Cindy Wolf, has a number of restaurants in Baltimore that, while definitely pricey, provide a true culinary experience that I think everyone who enjoys good food should experience at least once.  I'm thankful that my in-laws really like a good meal and take my wife and I out to one of Chef Wolf's establishments at least once a year. :)
 

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I second the notion that unless you know, in detail, the life of the animal, how it was killed, and how carefully the meat has been stored and prepared, you should stay away from eating raw meat.  There are just too many ways to get horrible food poisoning and gastric parasites from raw meat. 

Also, with raw vegetables keep in mind that applying heat to veggies actually releases nutrients that your body can't normally unlock on its own.  It may break down the vegetable material enough to pass through your system, but your body won't necessarily be able to extract the nutrients from the material as well.  Some things like potatoes can actually be poisonous if you eat large quantities of them uncooked.  Furthermore, most of the food recalls we've experienced in the US over the last couple of years have been from vegetables, like the salmonella-tainted bean sprouts, the tomato scare (which turned out to be jalapenos, if I remember correctly), pistachios, peanuts, spinach, scallions, etc.  Just because it's vegetation doesn't mean it's necessarily safe either.

Good luck, though, and good job on taking an interest in the health benefits of food!  Just be sure to do your homework!
 

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Myrrh23 said:
Anyone here ever eat raw meat before? I've started eating more raw non-meat food, but I'm curious if people really can safely eat raw meat (as opposed to rare steak, which I think is still cooked?).
The question is whether all uncooked meats are really all that 'raw' to begin with.

For example, sashimi is absolutely 'raw' and uncooked, while there are a number of Latin American countries that serve uncooked fish that is 'cured' in a citrus brine.

Certain raw beef dishes are cured in chilies and citrus, the natural oils of which help eliminate potential parasites (not to mention add flavor).

In Taiwan, they ferment uncooked pork, and the fermentation kills off parasites.  Italians air cure theirs and you get prosciutto.  Lots of Northern Europeans enjoy 'cold smoked' meats, which are air cured with smoke at below-cooking  temperatures to prevent the onset of decomposition.

Adding salt to any raw dish kills lots of bacterias, as do vinegar and the above-mentioned ingredients.  Now, all this food talk has me hungry for meat, and there's still another week of the Fast.  Darn.  :'(
 

Marc1152

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The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com 
 

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stewie said:
Perhaps some of our other Arab members can enlighten you on the wonder and glory that is kibbe nayeh.  I don't know anything about preparing it, I only know that it is delicious. 
My godfather used to make this for us. He bought the meat from a butcher he was very good friends with and let him know how he would prepare it. Then when he brought it home he cut off every piece of fat before grinding it up in his own grinder and adding the burghul wheat, onion, salt, pepper, and I think he also added either all spice or cinnamon. It was delicious but I have never made it myself.
 

Marc1152

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Tamara said:
stewie said:
Perhaps some of our other Arab members can enlighten you on the wonder and glory that is kibbe nayeh.  I don't know anything about preparing it, I only know that it is delicious. 
My godfather used to make this for us. He bought the meat from a butcher he was very good friends with and let him know how he would prepare it. Then when he brought it home he cut off every piece of fat before grinding it up in his own grinder and adding the burghul wheat, onion, salt, pepper, and I think he also added either all spice or cinnamon. It was delicious but I have never made it myself.
I wonder why we have accepted sushi ( by in large) which is totally raw fish, but still have a big problem with raw meats?
 

mike

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I've eaten beef tartare steak for several times. It's delicious with chopped pickled cucumber and onion.
 

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Marc1152 said:
If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.
Not really.  Freezing only slows down the metabolic processes of bacteria, so the minute you thaw it out all those bugs fire back up.  That's why the FDA cautions against thawing and re-freezing meat; the longer the meat is thawed out, the more bacteria it breeds.  Freezing doesn't necessarily kill all the parasite eggs, either. 
 

Second Chance

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Regarding raw seafood, I was told by medical doctors that seafood have naturally occurring bacteria that do not affect most people, except those with depressed/weakened immune systems. I was also told by dietitians that raw meat is a risky proposition, as pointed out by EofK and LBK.
 

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Schultz said:
Nebelpfade said:
Yup, veal, buffalo and venison carpaccio.  All were great!   ;D
A couple years ago we took my mother-in-law to a local gastronomic delight called Cinghale where I had a veal carpaccio for the first time that still ranks among the most delicious things I have ever eaten.  The olive oil that accompanied the meat was so fresh it looked like it was almost glowing green.

The owner, Cindy Wolf, has a number of restaurants in Baltimore that, while definitely pricey, provide a true culinary experience that I think everyone who enjoys good food should experience at least once.  I'm thankful that my in-laws really like a good meal and take my wife and I out to one of Chef Wolf's establishments at least once a year. :)
If I'm ever in the area, I'll definitely have to check them out!  ;D
 

FatherGiryus

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Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.

 

Marc1152

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EofK said:
Marc1152 said:
If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.
Not really.  Freezing only slows down the metabolic processes of bacteria, so the minute you thaw it out all those bugs fire back up.  That's why the FDA cautions against thawing and refreezing meat; the longer the meat is thawed out, the more bacteria it breeds.  Freezing doesn't necessarily kill all the parasite eggs, either. 
I wasn't talking about bacteria. I have read that freezing will take care of any potential parasites... Bacteria is an entirely different question. We may be way too paranoid about bacteria, some of which are beneficial. The context the germ finds in our body may be more important than trying to avoid germs. A robust nourished person will ward off  bad germs and use the beneficial ones.  People are eating Sushi as often as burgers these days with no big outbreaks of illnesses.

PS.. Here in the DC Metro area it is a running joke that so many FDA officials line up to buy Raw Milk at the various drop points we are forced to use since stores are not allowed to sell it.
 

Marc1152

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FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.


Nonsense.. Raw Milk taken from regular dairies will indeed poison you. Dairies that depend on Pasturization keep Cows in horrible unsanitary conditions. The life expectency of a  confinement Cow is about 14 months. They are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones just to keep them standing and producing artificially large quantities of low quality milk.. Grass fed cows from Certified Dairies that produce Raw Milk for sale are inspected regularly and are kept to an infinately higher standard. Their cows live for about 12 years. There have been no outbreaks of anything due to Raw Milk from Certified Dairies.

The reason Pasteurization caught on is that the Dairy industry discovered that the shelf life of boiled milk is more than twice as long as natural milk.  They could now ship milk  long distances and make far bigger profits. Raw Milk sours naturally. Pasteurized Milk putrefies.

The best book about the history of how we have been swindled by the Dairy Industry is: "The Untold Story of Milk"..Amazon carries it. Also go to:

www.realmilk.com
 

FatherGiryus

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Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.


Nonsense.. Raw Milk taken from regular dairies will indeed poison you. Dairies that depend on Pasturization keep Cows in horrible unsanitary conditions. The life expectency of a  confinement Cow is about 14 months. They are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones just to keep them standing and producing artificially large quantities of low quality milk.. Grass fed cows from Certified Dairies that produce Raw Milk for sale are inspected regularly and are kept to an infinately higher standard. Their cows live for about 12 years. There have been no outbreaks of anything due to Raw Milk from Certified Dairies.

The reason Pasteurization caught on is that the Dairy industry discovered that the shelf life of boiled milk is more than twice as long as natural milk.  They could now ship milk  long distances and make far bigger profits. Raw Milk sours naturally. Pasteurized Milk putrefies.

The best book about the history of how we have been swindled by the Dairy Industry is: "The Untold Story of Milk"..Amazon carries it. Also go to:

www.realmilk.com
What exactly in my post did I say that was nonsense?  Just curious...  :D
 

Marc1152

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FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.


Nonsense.. Raw Milk taken from regular dairies will indeed poison you. Dairies that depend on Pasteurization keep Cows in horrible unsanitary conditions. The life expectency of a  confinement Cow is about 14 months. They are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones just to keep them standing and producing artificially large quantities of low quality milk.. Grass fed cows from Certified Dairies that produce Raw Milk for sale are inspected regularly and are kept to an infinately higher standard. Their cows live for about 12 years. There have been no outbreaks of anything due to Raw Milk from Certified Dairies.

The reason Pasteurization caught on is that the Dairy industry discovered that the shelf life of boiled milk is more than twice as long as natural milk.  They could now ship milk  long distances and make far bigger profits. Raw Milk sours naturally. Pasteurized Milk putrefies.

The best book about the history of how we have been swindled by the Dairy Industry is: "The Untold Story of Milk"..Amazon carries it. Also go to:

www.realmilk.com
What exactly in my post did I say that was nonsense?  Just curious...   :D
There have not been regular outbreaks of illness due to Raw Milk. Raw Milk has an illness rate per serving lower than Deli Meats. Pasteurization has not caught on because it protects the public. It has caught on because of how profitable it is for the mainstream dairy industry. Boiling milk is easier than keeping sanitary farms or raising cows on natural pasture. The shipping time allowed via boiled milk permits sale of low quality milk from cows kept in deplorable conditions over much longer distances than natural milk.

Pasturized Milk is stripped of nearly all the healthful qualities found in natural raw milk from grass fed cows. 
 

FatherGiryus

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Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.


Nonsense.. Raw Milk taken from regular dairies will indeed poison you. Dairies that depend on Pasteurization keep Cows in horrible unsanitary conditions. The life expectency of a  confinement Cow is about 14 months. They are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones just to keep them standing and producing artificially large quantities of low quality milk.. Grass fed cows from Certified Dairies that produce Raw Milk for sale are inspected regularly and are kept to an infinately higher standard. Their cows live for about 12 years. There have been no outbreaks of anything due to Raw Milk from Certified Dairies.

The reason Pasteurization caught on is that the Dairy industry discovered that the shelf life of boiled milk is more than twice as long as natural milk.  They could now ship milk  long distances and make far bigger profits. Raw Milk sours naturally. Pasteurized Milk putrefies.

The best book about the history of how we have been swindled by the Dairy Industry is: "The Untold Story of Milk"..Amazon carries it. Also go to:

www.realmilk.com
What exactly in my post did I say that was nonsense?  Just curious...   :D
There have not been regular outbreaks of illness due to Raw Milk. Raw Milk has an illness rate per serving lower than Deli Meats. Pasteurization has not caught on because it protects the public. It has caught on because of how profitable it is for the mainstream dairy industry. Boiling milk is easier than keeping sanitary farms or raising cows on natural pasture. The shipping time allowed via boiled milk permits sale of low quality milk from cows kept in deplorable conditions over much longer distances than natural milk.

Pasturized Milk is stripped of nearly all the healthful qualities found in natural raw milk from grass fed cows. 

I think you proved my point: raw milk can be dangerous if it is not handled properly, which is why I referred to it as a 'mixed bag' in my previous post.  I did not say it was all bad, but that it has its drawbacks.  Not all raw milk is equally safe.  I am not affirming or denying any health benefits, merely the general risk.  I am not denying that there isn't safe raw milk, but, as you pointed out, there's room to be concerned if it does not come from safe sources.

And, since there is much less raw milk on the market, it is no surprise that deli meats have a higher incident rate given the exposure variables.

Anyway, its all academic until the 15th!  ;)


 
 

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Most of the sushi not eaten an hour off the dock is deep frozen at super ridiculously low temperatures for a week I believe before being shipped.  Much different than cutting up a cow and serving it raw. 
 

Marc1152

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FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
FatherGiryus said:
Marc1152 said:
The larger question is the denaturing of our food supply by over processing and adding sugar and worse.

I am a big fan of unpasteurized milk ( Raw  Milk ) as the health benefits are tremendous and reasons for boiling milk ( Pasteurization) have long been resolved.

I have tried to cozy up to Raw meat and have taken a few bites of steak recently before cooking. I have also cooked meat much rarer than previously. I think the idea is that far more nutrients are available in raw food, meat too.

I would like more information about how we are set up for cooked meat rather than raw. It would seem to me that our early ancestors ate more raw than cooked. Eskimos are often cited by raw meat advocates for the large amount of raw meat they eat. What isn't eaten raw is often eaten fermented. Fermentation is thought of as "Super Raw" as various enzymes are increased.

If you are afraid of paracites and such the like, I have read that if you freeze the meat solid for a few days that this will do the trick... I don't know for sure.

For more info. on Raw Milk, go to: www.RealMilk.com   
One of the reasons you can eat raw beef or pork with less concern these days has to do with the antibiotics most animals are fed with, along with the regular parasite inhibitors commercial livestock also receive.  

I was told the trick with animal-to-human transmission has to do with shared genetic traits: the less 'like' your food is to you, the less likely of a species-to-species jump there will be.  Fish are less like us, so their bacteria and viruses are less likely to effect humans.  Whereas a pig is very close (i.e. 'pig valves' and pig skin used for burn victims), and so their is more of a risk.  It is theorized that the HIV virus jumped from monkeys to humans because monkey meat was undercooked.

Native Americans and other primitive peoples tend to cook or cure all their meats, the exception being the Native Alaskans in the far north, but I think this may have been out of necessity due to the lack of firewood.

When living in Japan, I learned that only certain fish are considered appropriate for raw consumption.  Deep water is the key: halibut and bottom feeders tend to have parasites, as do surface fish (that's why Japanese will eat mahi mahi in Hawaii but not under its Japanese name in Japan, since it is a surface fish and considered 'unclean').

Overall, I think the raw food argument is a mixed bag.  As for raw milk, I live in L.A. and know first-hand the dangers of it: every few years, we have a bacterial outbreak of some kind which inevitably leads back to someone making 'qeuso fresco' with raw milk (my father refers to it a 'bathtub cheese' after the old Prohibition 'bathtub gin' his father used to make).  If you don't get it from a reliable source and handle it properly, it is a time-bomb, which is why pasteurization took off so quickly.


Nonsense.. Raw Milk taken from regular dairies will indeed poison you. Dairies that depend on Pasteurization keep Cows in horrible unsanitary conditions. The life expectency of a  confinement Cow is about 14 months. They are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones just to keep them standing and producing artificially large quantities of low quality milk.. Grass fed cows from Certified Dairies that produce Raw Milk for sale are inspected regularly and are kept to an infinately higher standard. Their cows live for about 12 years. There have been no outbreaks of anything due to Raw Milk from Certified Dairies.

The reason Pasteurization caught on is that the Dairy industry discovered that the shelf life of boiled milk is more than twice as long as natural milk.  They could now ship milk  long distances and make far bigger profits. Raw Milk sours naturally. Pasteurized Milk putrefies.

The best book about the history of how we have been swindled by the Dairy Industry is: "The Untold Story of Milk"..Amazon carries it. Also go to:

www.realmilk.com
What exactly in my post did I say that was nonsense?  Just curious...   :D
There have not been regular outbreaks of illness due to Raw Milk. Raw Milk has an illness rate per serving lower than Deli Meats. Pasteurization has not caught on because it protects the public. It has caught on because of how profitable it is for the mainstream dairy industry. Boiling milk is easier than keeping sanitary farms or raising cows on natural pasture. The shipping time allowed via boiled milk permits sale of low quality milk from cows kept in deplorable conditions over much longer distances than natural milk.

Pasturized Milk is stripped of nearly all the healthful qualities found in natural raw milk from grass fed cows. 

I think you proved my point: raw milk can be dangerous if it is not handled properly, which is why I referred to it as a 'mixed bag' in my previous post.  I did not say it was all bad, but that it has its drawbacks.  Not all raw milk is equally safe.  I am not affirming or denying any health benefits, merely the general risk.  I am not denying that there isn't safe raw milk, but, as you pointed out, there's room to be concerned if it does not come from safe sources.

And, since there is much less raw milk on the market, it is no surprise that deli meats have a higher incident rate given the exposure variables.

Anyway, its all academic until the 15th!  ;)


 

  Er..Okay.. If you were to get Raw Milk from a confinement Dairy that is producing Pasteurized milk the filthy conditions would be a problem. However, that is circular logic. Confinement Dairies don't ever sell Raw Milk...That is why they are confinement Dairies. Pasteurized Milk come from often diseased cows with very short life spans. They are pumped full of antibiotics to keep them alive . The never leave the factory farm and live out their life in tiny little stalls... Not only should you not buy Raw Milk from these places but you shouldn't buy Pasteurised Milk from them either.. Not only has the Milk been stripped of nearly all it's healthful qualities but all of the natural protections in the Milk that keep it pure are lost too. Sine the Cows are often infected with Mastitus and other things, the Milk often has quantities of puss in it.. If you are going to drink water from a sewer, it's best to boil it. If you are going to drink clean water, then boiling is not necessary.

Raw Milk has a lower illness rate than Deli Meats. That is on a "per serving basis".. So many thousands of servings per one illness. It has nothing at all to do with more Deli Meat being consumed. Nearly all the food related  illnesses have been due to other types of food other than Raw Milk. There have been few to none caused by Raw Milk. Nearly all of the illnesses you have heard about in CA were nonsense cases that when investigated had other causes. The Book "Milk" (I will post the authors name later when I find it), lists dozens of cases the enemies of Raw Milk have tried to pin on it. Some are laughably ridiculous.  Clean Raw Milk is perfectly safe, safer than most things you already eat. The reason for the scare tactics is the profit motive of the Dairy industry. We have been swindled out of one of the most perfect foods you can eat ( by "Perfect" I mean that you can live solely on Raw Milk and eat nothing else and do fine. Some people for various reasons have done this)

www.realmilk.com

www.westonaprice.org
 
 

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Marc1152 said:
www.realmilk.com
You've posted that link THREE times in this topic. Lol

As for me, I like my meat cooked, my milk boiled, and my fish in the style that the British eat it.  :D
 

Marc1152

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Simayan said:
Marc1152 said:
www.realmilk.com
You've posted that link THREE times in this topic. Lol

As for me, I like my meat cooked, my milk boiled, and my fish in the style that the British eat it.  :D
I have posted three different replies with the link as a tag. I thought that was ok to do.

Eat however you please. it's just a shame that factory farming has taken over the food supply, forcing out local foods from family farms and squelching more natural food like Raw Milk that is very good for you.

You get to have your boiled milk whenever you please. I have to jump through flaming hoops to get Real Milk.

I have heard the suggestion that there should be a grade system for milk:

Grade A = Unrefined Milk ( Raw ) from grass fed pastured Cows, no homginization

Grade B = Pasturized Milk from grass fed pastured Cows ( Homoginized or Natural Butter fat)

Grade C = Pasturized Milk from confined Cows, homoginized.

www.realmilk.com
 
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