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RE:RE: Why did you leave and Sacking Constantinople

Papist

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sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
 

DeniseDenise

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

everyone's gotta have a hobby. ;)
 

Jonathan Gress

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I have a big problem with the whole idea of collective guilt, but it keeps on cropping up everywhere. It's like we can't stop holding the children accountable for the sins of their fathers. Why is that?
 

Mor Ephrem

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Italians also crucified our Lord.  When will you apologise for that? 
 

Inquirer

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
I'm fine with admitting plenty of Catholics did evil things.

What I'm trying to wrangle out, though, is why every single Catholic should be eternally repentant for the Fourth Crusade, the Ustase, the Unia, the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, etc., but why Orthodox don't have to be eternally repentant for the Massacre of the Latins, persecution of the Eastern Catholics, collaboration with the USSR, collaboration with the Ottoman Empire, etc. etc. etc.
 

TheTrisagion

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Both sides have done some bad stuff in their history and no one is trying to brush it under the rug.  

What annoys me to no end is when certain posters feel the need to tell other posters why the other poster converted or how their conversion is illegitimate.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
 

TheTrisagion

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Inquirer said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
You might think that, but you would be wrong. He has made numerous statements over the years on this forum that the whole reason the Orthodox Church exists is solely as a reaction against the papacy. This isn't the first time he has trotted out such silliness.
 

Inquirer

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TheTrisagion said:
Inquirer said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
You might think that, but you would be wrong. He has made numerous statements over the years on this forum that the whole reason the Orthodox Church exists is solely as a reaction against the papacy. This isn't the first time he has trotted out such silliness.
If one is of the belief that the RCC is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the Orthodox are schismatics, then yeah, it's perfectly sensible to think that the Orthodox Church exists solely as a reaction against the Papacy.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Inquirer said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
If that's his contention, I'd respectfully disagree.  I don't think it can be substantiated that the Orthodox favored a Roman Catholic conception of the papacy prior to the Ottoman conquest.  Quite the opposite, really.

That said, the Fogey quotes which ignited the debate were:

Its reason to exist as a separate church is to hate the Catholic Church.
The Mohammedans wanted schism, to keep the Christians in their empire under their control, and they got it, in spades.
They speak for themselves, wouldn't you say?

Inquirer said:
If one is of the belief that the RCC is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the Orthodox are schismatics, then yeah, it's perfectly sensible to think that the Orthodox Church exists solely as a reaction against the Papacy.
No it doesn't.  Even if one accepts the premise that Rome is the Church and the Orthodox are schismatics, it doesn't necessarily follow that the Orthodox only entered into schism because they were trained to hate the Pope by their Muslim overlords.  That's ahistorical and silly.  It could be that the Orthodox actually hold to a very different Faith than that of the Roman Church.  Orthodox Christians find it frustrating when modern Catholics insist that there are no real differences in faith between us and that we need to move past the dialogue phase and come under obedience to the Pope of Rome, ignoring the very real points of divergence that still separate us.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Italians also crucified our Lord.  When will you apologise for that?  
Good point. I have read online that while my lineage is latino/hispanic, my last name originated in Italy. So yes, once again... my fault. ;)
 

TheTrisagion

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Inquirer said:
TheTrisagion said:
Inquirer said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
You might think that, but you would be wrong. He has made numerous statements over the years on this forum that the whole reason the Orthodox Church exists is solely as a reaction against the papacy. This isn't the first time he has trotted out such silliness.
If one is of the belief that the RCC is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the Orthodox are schismatics, then yeah, it's perfectly sensible to think that the Orthodox Church exists solely as a reaction against the Papacy.
I disagree.  In the converse, if one is of the belief that the Orthodox Church is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the RCC are schismatics, does it then make perfect sense that the RCC exists solely out of a desire for a power grab of the Papacy?  Certainly not.  We can recognize our differences without having to assign motives to each other for why we believe what we believe. I don't pretend to know why you or TYF or anyone else here is a member of the faith tradition that they are. I choose to accept what people tell me at face value, if they are RC because they have studied and determined that the Pope in infallible, I'm not going to turn around and tell them that they are deceiving themselves and that they are really RC because they wish to have an infallible overlord to rule over them and dominate the world.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Papist said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Italians also crucified our Lord.  When will you apologise for that?  
Good point. I have read online that while my lineage is latino/hispanic, my last name originated in Italy. So yes, once again... my fault. ;)
For your penance, attend thirty Gregorian Masses (Novus Ordo) in the liberal diocese of your choice. 
 

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TheTrisagion said:
Inquirer said:
TheTrisagion said:
Inquirer said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think in this particular thread, people were just bringing this stuff up in response to Fogey's silly assertion that the Orthodox are really Roman Catholics who have been brainwashed by the Muslims to hate their daddy the Pope.
I think his point is that the Orthodox view of episcopal authority was reshaped under duress from the Ottoman Empire, and that the original, pure, correct view is closer to RCC.

I don't think he was literally saying that the Orthodox are fueled by antipapism.
You might think that, but you would be wrong. He has made numerous statements over the years on this forum that the whole reason the Orthodox Church exists is solely as a reaction against the papacy. This isn't the first time he has trotted out such silliness.
If one is of the belief that the RCC is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the Orthodox are schismatics, then yeah, it's perfectly sensible to think that the Orthodox Church exists solely as a reaction against the Papacy.
I disagree.  In the converse, if one is of the belief that the Orthodox Church is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the RCC are schismatics, does it then make perfect sense that the RCC exists solely out of a desire for a power grab of the Papacy?  Certainly not.  We can recognize our differences without having to assign motives to each other for why we believe what we believe. I don't pretend to know why you or TYF or anyone else here is a member of the faith tradition that they are. I choose to accept what people tell me at face value, if they are RC because they have studied and determined that the Pope in infallible, I'm not going to turn around and tell them that they are deceiving themselves and that they are really RC because they wish to have an infallible overlord to rule over them and dominate the world.
Hold on there, don't answer for me!

"In the converse, if one is of the belief that the Orthodox Church is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and the RCC are schismatics, does it then make perfect sense that the RCC exists solely out of a desire for a power grab of the Papacy?"

Yes it does! Because if not, they would be Orthodox.
 

biro

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"Let's all die." - Howard Stern, as former NY Mayor Giuliani, when the city was sprayed with malathion
 

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
I'm sorry for making such a crude remark about Orthodox being justified in hating Roman Catholicism. I was too caught up in showing that such is not the reason why most Orthodox are not Orthodox. What I did inevitably made it look like the case. I should've taken into account the persecutions of the Eastern Catholics and the Massacre of the Latins that had been committed by Orthodox Christians themselves. Having visited a Reformed blog before that attempted to justify the 'lies' of Catholicism through pointing out its many atrocities which I know full well to be fallacious, I should've known better being a former Catholic myself not to what that had been done by the author of that blog.

Again, I apologize. What I had commented is simply wrong and fallacious.
 

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sakura95 said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
I'm sorry for making such a crude remark about Orthodox being justified in hating Roman Catholicism. I was too caught up in showing that such is not the reason why most Orthodox are not Orthodox. What I did inevitably made it look like the case. I should've taken into account the persecutions of the Eastern Catholics and the Massacre of the Latins that had been committed by Orthodox Christians themselves. Having visited a Reformed blog before that attempted to justify the 'lies' of Catholicism through pointing out its many atrocities which I know full well to be fallacious, I should've known better being a former Catholic myself not to what that had been done by the author of that blog.

Again, I apologize. What I had commented is simply wrong and fallacious.
I respect what you are saying here. It's big of you.
 

sakura95

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
I'm sorry for making such a crude remark about Orthodox being justified in hating Roman Catholicism. I was too caught up in showing that such is not the reason why most Orthodox are not Orthodox. What I did inevitably made it look like the case. I should've taken into account the persecutions of the Eastern Catholics and the Massacre of the Latins that had been committed by Orthodox Christians themselves. Having visited a Reformed blog before that attempted to justify the 'lies' of Catholicism through pointing out its many atrocities which I know full well to be fallacious, I should've known better being a former Catholic myself not to what that had been done by the author of that blog.

Again, I apologize. What I had commented is simply wrong and fallacious.
I respect what you are saying here. It's big of you.
Thank You for your understanding and forgiveness.
 

JamesR

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Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
If it makes you feel any better, if I inherited an empire and became Hitler, I'd sack the Vatican and steal all of its lasagna and submissive women.
 

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JamesR said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
If it makes you feel any better, if I inherited an empire and became Hitler, I'd sack the Vatican and steal all of its lasagna and submissive women.
Yeah if the Vatican is known for anything, it's for the huge amount of women living there.

That is sarcasm.

 

TheTrisagion

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kelly said:
JamesR said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
If it makes you feel any better, if I inherited an empire and became Hitler, I'd sack the Vatican and steal all of its lasagna and submissive women.
Yeah if the Vatican is known for anything, it's for the huge amount of women living there.

That is sarcasm.
ROTFL!!!

kelly, if I wasn't married, I would beg you to have my babies.
 

JamesR

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kelly said:
JamesR said:
Papist said:
sakura95 said:
How would you know? I mean when I was Catholic, hatred for Protestants wasn't the reason why I went to church, though there are plenty of ulterior motives such as checking out the girls at the parish which my mom would use as a way to coerce me into attending Mass. Either way, the hate for Roman Catholicism by the Orthodox is fully justified given all the atrocities it committed towards it throughout the centuries, even during the Second World War through what the Ustaše did in Croatia.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
If it makes you feel any better, if I inherited an empire and became Hitler, I'd sack the Vatican and steal all of its lasagna and submissive women.
Yeah if the Vatican is known for anything, it's for the huge amount of women living there.

That is sarcasm.
That won't be true for long when they start allowing female Priests.
 

hecma925

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The Vatican invented Islam, so you are also responsible for every terrorist attack made in the name of Allah, PBUH SWT, etc.
 

mctaviix

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This forum has decayed over the past 2 years....
 

Luke

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The LORD told Peter to forgive one 70 X 7 times.  It has been 810 years since the sacking.  I think it is time to forgive the Latins and move on.
 

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Gamliel said:
The LORD told Peter to forgive one 70 X 7 times.  It has been 810 years since the sacking.  I think it is time to forgive the Latins and move on.
Thank you.
 

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Gamliel said:
The LORD told Peter to forgive one 70 X 7 times.  It has been 810 years since the sacking.  I think it is time to forgive the Latins and move on.


I don't have any reason to forgive anybody. No Catholic has ever done anything to me. But when someone tries to make a case that the Orthodox only rejected papal claims out of pride or political ambition or because of Muslim domination etc there is nothing wrong with pointing out this historical reality and the effect it had on the Greek world and the effect it had on relations. It transformed the Latins into a direct threat and enemy. The effects of that are still being felt today.
 

TheTrisagion

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So, I was thinking last night that we should get a group together and go sack Rome.  Who's with me!!!  Revenge is best served cold, and by cold, I mean 800 years cold.  :laugh:
 

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Hamartolos said:
This forum has decayed over the past 2 years....
I agree and it seems that in the past month or two it has seemingly settled into a constant dose of adolescent male mysygony, snarky Catholic bashing and gay hating.  A real turn on for serious people seeking truth. :mad:
 

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TheTrisagion said:
So, I was thinking last night that we should get a group together and go sack Rome.  Who's with me!!!  Revenge is best served cold, and by cold, I mean 800 years cold.  :laugh:
I'm so conflicted. I mean I'm in communion with Rome, but I identify as Byzantine. Maybe I should just sack my own apartment.
 

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Maybe you should wear a potato sack and hop to whichever city is closer, kind of like Jonah.
 

TheTrisagion

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Papist said:
TheTrisagion said:
So, I was thinking last night that we should get a group together and go sack Rome.  Who's with me!!!  Revenge is best served cold, and by cold, I mean 800 years cold.  :laugh:
I'm so conflicted. I mean I'm in communion with Rome, but I identify as Byzantine. Maybe I should just sack my own apartment.
The way I see it, you should go sack Alexandria. Those Copts are neither Roman nor Byzantine and therefore should experience the wrath of the Chalcedonian God.
 
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