Reason for Forum Name Change

Anastasios

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I changed the forum name mainly because in the "10 most recent posts" it made it stretch too far. I added the asterisk and footnote for our participants who have had a problem with identifying Roman Catholics as simply Catholics when they feel that they too are entitled to be called Catholics (ie Orthodox Catholics). We've debated the issues here several times though so if you want to comment on the name change (I am still open to other names) please do not turn it into a thread on the relative merits of the term Catholic.

Thanks!

anastasios
 

Serge

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Thanks, anastasios - just noticed the change now. I was going to suggest it! We all know what big-C Catholic means, and the hothead who made a federal case out of it (because, IMO, he was insanely jealous of the Catholic Church for some reason - unlike born Orthodox I know in person) is now gone, so there's no more 'need' to walk on eggshells and use ridiculous long qualifiers every time one uses the word.
 

SamB

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I suggested it a couple of times. Believe me, it sounded too cliquish, and was simply akward. Thanks for cutting the fat off the meat, so to speak.

In IC XC
Samer
 

Azarus

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Sorry, but being a bit new to this particular board, I'm confused. Maybe you can clear it up for me.

The title of this section of the board is "Orthodox-Catholic* Discussion", and the explaination is ...

"Discuss in charity issues uniting and dividing the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic Churches. (*in Communion with Rome)."

So is this section of the board to discuss differences between the Roman rite and the other rites within the Catholic Church. Or is this section of the board to discuss differences (uniting and dividing) the Catholic Church(es) and the "Orthodox" Church(es) (ie. Greek Orthodox)?

If another thread on this board will explain the need for the change, I'd be happy to read it, if someone will direct me.

Thank you,

Azarus
 

AmatorDeus

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Azarus, it's not quite that complicated. :)

We had a former member who had a big grudge against Roman and Byzantine Catholics. He insisted on calling himself an Orthodox Catholic and said that just calling the forum Orthodox-Catholic Discussion was unfair in that Orthodox were catholic too. To accomodate this member we made a terrifically long forum name and had endless arguments about this just about anytime someone used the term Catholic to refer exclusively to those in communion with the Pope(ie Roman Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, etc).

Since that particular poster decided to leave the board a couple of months ago, the admins felt it could go back to an easier-to-understand title. I hope that clears it up!
 

Serge

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It's about differences between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church. My guess is discussion of different parts of the Catholic Church would go under Free-For-All.
 

Azarus

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Thanks, I think that clears it up.

But ...

So this is to discuss differences between Catholic groups (as opposed to Christian groups that could include protestants, et.al.) post-"Great Schism", right?

Thanks again.

Azarus
 
J

James the Just

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I don't have a problem with the name change, of course I prefer Orthodox & Eastern/Roman Catholic Forum,the Eastern Catholics prefer some seperation from their Latin brethern which is another dilemma, latin paranoia I guess.

James

 

Serge

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Dear Azarus,

So this is to discuss differences between Catholic groups (as opposed to Christian groups that could include protestants, et.al.) post-"Great Schism", right?
You could put it that way, but since we all agree that common English usage has 'Catholic' meaning 'the church under the Pope', a better catchall word for these ancient churches is 'apostolic'. Also, AFAIK this folder wasn't set up to discuss differences between Orthodox and Oriental Churches (Copts, Ethiopians, Armenians, Syrians and Malankara), Orthodox and Assyrians, Orientals and Assyrians, Catholics and Orientals, or Catholics and Assyrians. (You see what I'm getting at.) It was set up to compare the Orthodox (the working definition of this board is that all nonpapal Eastern churches - Eastern Orthodox, Orientals and Assyrians - are Orthodox) and Catholic churches.

While sharing a lot of the Orthodox tradition, Byzantine and other Eastern Catholics aren't in the Orthodox churches but the Catholic Church, so my guess is discussions solely about them and comparing them to the Roman Rite would belong in another folder.

Jacobus wrote:

I don't have a problem with the name change, of course I prefer Orthodox & Eastern/Roman Catholic Forum,the Eastern Catholics prefer some seperation from their Latin brethern which is another dilemma, latin paranoia I guess.
Too complicated IMO. Sure, they prefer some separation, because 'Catholic' is often construed by the common man as = 'Roman Catholic', but enough's enough. 'Catholic' is good enough as a catchall.
 

Anastasios

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Azarus,

The forum is a place to discuss differences between:

The Orthodox Church ----and---- The Catholic Church
(both Eastern and
Western Rites)

How did you get that the forum was a place for inter-Catholic dialogue, when the asterisk is only on the word Catholic?

anastasios
 

Serge

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I can't speak for Azarus but I think he is using the word 'Catholic' differently from the way we agree common usage defines it - he's using it the way we use 'apostolic'. (I used to do that too but it confused too many people.)
 
J

James the Just

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In my experience if you say Catholic the vast majority of people think Roman Catholic, I was ignorant of the fact 9 months ago, I did not know the existance of the Eastern Catholics, although I knew the existence of the Orthodox Church.

James
 

Asteriktos

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I think the name is fine. Though I thought the other one was fine. *shrugs* :reading:
 

Anastasios

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Again, the only reason I decided to change it after 7 months was so that it wouldn't get the topics in "10 most recent threads" out of wack.

anastasios
 

Linus7

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I understand the reason for the name change. I agree with it because in common parlance Catholic usually means Roman Catholic.

But I think common parlance is a shame, because when we read the Church Fathers the word Catholic is not used or limited in that way.

However, reality is what it is . . .

A couple of years ago there was an older man of a particular ethnic background in our parish who objected to the fact that we had the word Catholic in the name of our Church. I thought it was silly, but it shows that even some Orthodox misunderstand that word.

 

Asteriktos

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I prefer to use the term Latin Catholic when I can, and a number of conservative Catholics that I've talked with also like this term. Unfortunately, too often people seem to take "Latin" as though it's meant in a derogatory way. Admittedly, it would have been more applicable last century than it is now.
 

Azarus

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Thanks for the clarification.

Anastasios,

Serge had it right when he said, "... he is using the word 'Catholic' differently from the way we agree common usage defines it - he's using it the way we use 'apostolic'."

And, when Jacobus posted, "In my experience if you say Catholic the vast majority of people think Roman Catholic, I was ignorant of the fact 9 months ago, I did not know the existance of the Eastern Catholics, although I knew the existence of the Orthodox Church."

I was in the "same boat" until about 1-1 1/2 years ago. I thought the Roman Catholic church was the only "Catholic" church. To further confuse the issue, there are several "Catholic" churches that are not in union with Rome and have NEVER been in union with Rome, and further do not share the apostolic succession, but they still claim the name "Catholic".

Anyway, thanks again, I understand.

Azarus
 

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I believe that the name change is symptomatic of a perception problem our church endures from "outsiders". And that some of the confusion IS self-inflicted. Bishop Kallistos(Ware) states that the canonical name of the Orthodox Church is "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East". Although I cannot find this in the Rudder, it obviously applies to the the remaining four patriarchs of the original Pentarchy who remained true to the "One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church". Moreover, the canonical name of the Russian Orthodox Church is "Holy Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church". I attend an "American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church" (yes, former uniates, very refreshing to this old Greek!).
It's no wonder we lean to short quick nomenclature such as "Orthodox" and "Catholic". I have often dreamed of the outright fear with which certain other "Christianesque" demoninations might greet our calling ourselves "Orthodox Catholic". I mention this because over that last few months I have used this term in mixed company and gotten reactions different than that when describing myself as "Greek" or "Russian" or "Eastern" Orthodox. I understand the "Orthodox" is a pre-schism term applied at an earlier time to the whole church - east and west- to distinguish the Church from heresies such as arianism. We have allowed the RC's to ursurp the term Catholic. No?
Please forgive this lengthy post, my first.
 

Serge

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I understand that before the estrangement of the Byzantines from the Latins, the Latins in the one Chalcedonian Church already were called 'Catholics' and the Byzantines in it 'Orthodox'.
 
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