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Recordings of Kazan's compositions?

88Devin12

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Does anyone know if there are recordings of Basil Kazan's compositions? I'm specifically looking for all 8 tones for Great Vespers & Orthros, including the resurrectional stichera, aposticha, exapostalarion, theotokion etc...

All I can ever find are recordings of the Apolytikion and Resurrectional Theotokia. But I need good recordings of everything else.
 

Elisha

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"Compositions" would be a bit of a stretch.  I was told they were basically just written down in western notation and in English (albeit bad translations) from what Kazan had learned growing up. I think I heard they were only some old cassette tapes - nothing of a decent recording quality.
 

88Devin12

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Elisha said:
"Compositions" would be a bit of a stretch.  I was told they were basically just written down in western notation and in English (albeit bad translations) from what Kazan had learned growing up. I think I heard they were only some old cassette tapes - nothing of a decent recording quality.
I term them "compositions" because they aren't necessarily "Byzantine Chant" in it's traditional sense, because they weren't composed in a traditional way.

I think Basil Kazan took the Arabic-style melodies, with Nassar's translation, and tried to fit the two together, trying to preserve the original Arabic melody, which sometimes differs from the Greek.

He started out intending to do it in Byzantine notation, but changed to western notation.

I'm not looking for his original recordings, I'm just looking for modern chanters and parishes who have recorded themselves chanting from his music for educational purposes. I can read music but I don't have perfect pitch and it would take me ages to figure out the right melody & pitch to the longer stichera & aposticha. So I'm wanting some good recordings of chanters performing his versions to help me with chanting it.
 

Elisha

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88Devin12 said:
Elisha said:
"Compositions" would be a bit of a stretch.  I was told they were basically just written down in western notation and in English (albeit bad translations) from what Kazan had learned growing up. I think I heard they were only some old cassette tapes - nothing of a decent recording quality.
I term them "compositions" because they aren't necessarily "Byzantine Chant" in it's traditional sense, because they weren't composed in a traditional way.

I think Basil Kazan took the Arabic-style melodies, with Nassar's translation, and tried to fit the two together, trying to preserve the original Arabic melody, which sometimes differs from the Greek.

He started out intending to do it in Byzantine notation, but changed to western notation.

I'm not looking for his original recordings, I'm just looking for modern chanters and parishes who have recorded themselves chanting from his music for educational purposes. I can read music but I don't have perfect pitch and it would take me ages to figure out the right melody & pitch to the longer stichera & aposticha. So I'm wanting some good recordings of chanters performing his versions to help me with chanting it.
Sure.

A reliable person in the know said some LPs are said to exist, probably only in the Antiochian Village Library.  He said that his style was very clearly influenced by Saklarides (very modernized style).  Also told that the Boston Byzantine Choir has used his material quite a bit.  This may be the best answer you can find.
 

Elisha

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Also told that there is some Christmas CD out there that uses his Katavasias.
 

88Devin12

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Elisha said:
88Devin12 said:
Elisha said:
"Compositions" would be a bit of a stretch.  I was told they were basically just written down in western notation and in English (albeit bad translations) from what Kazan had learned growing up. I think I heard they were only some old cassette tapes - nothing of a decent recording quality.
I term them "compositions" because they aren't necessarily "Byzantine Chant" in it's traditional sense, because they weren't composed in a traditional way.

I think Basil Kazan took the Arabic-style melodies, with Nassar's translation, and tried to fit the two together, trying to preserve the original Arabic melody, which sometimes differs from the Greek.

He started out intending to do it in Byzantine notation, but changed to western notation.

I'm not looking for his original recordings, I'm just looking for modern chanters and parishes who have recorded themselves chanting from his music for educational purposes. I can read music but I don't have perfect pitch and it would take me ages to figure out the right melody & pitch to the longer stichera & aposticha. So I'm wanting some good recordings of chanters performing his versions to help me with chanting it.
Sure.

A reliable person in the know said some LPs are said to exist, probably only in the Antiochian Village Library.  He said that his style was very clearly influenced by Saklarides (very modernized style).  Also told that the Boston Byzantine Choir has used his material quite a bit.  This may be the best answer you can find.
Yeah I listened to a lecture where the speaker said Kazan may have been influenced by Sakallaridis, but everything I've heard (in Greek) from Sakallaridis' compositions seems completely different, like almost Ionian in style, whereas Kazan's sounds a bit more Arabic, which itself is slightly different than the Greek.
 

scamandrius

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Here are some recordings done by Fr. Aaron Warwick, a priest in the AANA in Wichita, Kansas.  He is also my godfather and taught me a lot about chanting. 

All of these are recordings of Kazan's music, with the exceptions of stichera which I think he "free chants", but I'm not sure.

http://www.stmarywichita.org/vespershymns.html  You can go on the sidebar and hear Kazan hymns for Orthros and Liturgy, too.

As for the criticism that Kazan is not authentically Byzantine chant, there is merit to it. Someone already stated that Kazan tried to fit Greek and Arabic melodies into the English from the  5 lb. Nassr book.  THe problems are myriad and I give props to Dr. Kazan for doing something which had not been attempted yet, but there are some glaring defects that classically trained chanters, especially from the old countries, would balk at.  Plus, the Greek/Arabic melodies were composed for languages with a different accentuation, syntax and morphology from English which only compounds the problem. However, with the resources that are now available from places like St. Anthony's, there are now different options. My priest wants to stick with Kazan for the main parts of Vespers and Orthros (Psalm 140, Evlogetaria, Ainoi, Resurrectional Apolytikia and Theotokia etc.) so the people can "participate" but for other sections, we chanters are free to use material from other sources as we deem fit.

On St. Anthony's website, they offer critiques of Kazan and other adaptations of Byzantine melodies into English. It's a good read. http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/music/Adaptation.htm
 

88Devin12

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scamandrius said:
Here are some recordings done by Fr. Aaron Warwick, a priest in the AANA in Wichita, Kansas.  He is also my godfather and taught me a lot about chanting. 

All of these are recordings of Kazan's music, with the exceptions of stichera which I think he "free chants", but I'm not sure.

http://www.stmarywichita.org/vespershymns.html  You can go on the sidebar and hear Kazan hymns for Orthros and Liturgy, too.

As for the criticism that Kazan is not authentically Byzantine chant, there is merit to it. Someone already stated that Kazan tried to fit Greek and Arabic melodies into the English from the  5 lb. Nassr book.  THe problems are myriad and I give props to Dr. Kazan for doing something which had not been attempted yet, but there are some glaring defects that classically trained chanters, especially from the old countries, would balk at.  Plus, the Greek/Arabic melodies were composed for languages with a different accentuation, syntax and morphology from English which only compounds the problem. However, with the resources that are now available from places like St. Anthony's, there are now different options. My priest wants to stick with Kazan for the main parts of Vespers and Orthros (Psalm 140, Evlogetaria, Ainoi, Resurrectional Apolytikia and Theotokia etc.) so the people can "participate" but for other sections, we chanters are free to use material from other sources as we deem fit.

On St. Anthony's website, they offer critiques of Kazan and other adaptations of Byzantine melodies into English. It's a good read. http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/music/Adaptation.htm
Thanks!
I love St. Anthony's composition of Byzantine hymns in English. but right now my parish is sticking to Kazan.
 

Cavaradossi

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88Devin12 said:
Elisha said:
88Devin12 said:
Elisha said:
"Compositions" would be a bit of a stretch.  I was told they were basically just written down in western notation and in English (albeit bad translations) from what Kazan had learned growing up. I think I heard they were only some old cassette tapes - nothing of a decent recording quality.
I term them "compositions" because they aren't necessarily "Byzantine Chant" in it's traditional sense, because they weren't composed in a traditional way.

I think Basil Kazan took the Arabic-style melodies, with Nassar's translation, and tried to fit the two together, trying to preserve the original Arabic melody, which sometimes differs from the Greek.

He started out intending to do it in Byzantine notation, but changed to western notation.

I'm not looking for his original recordings, I'm just looking for modern chanters and parishes who have recorded themselves chanting from his music for educational purposes. I can read music but I don't have perfect pitch and it would take me ages to figure out the right melody & pitch to the longer stichera & aposticha. So I'm wanting some good recordings of chanters performing his versions to help me with chanting it.
Sure.

A reliable person in the know said some LPs are said to exist, probably only in the Antiochian Village Library.  He said that his style was very clearly influenced by Saklarides (very modernized style).  Also told that the Boston Byzantine Choir has used his material quite a bit.  This may be the best answer you can find.
Yeah I listened to a lecture where the speaker said Kazan may have been influenced by Sakallaridis, but everything I've heard (in Greek) from Sakallaridis' compositions seems completely different, like almost Ionian in style, whereas Kazan's sounds a bit more Arabic, which itself is slightly different than the Greek.
I think that would probably apply more to the transcriptional method used by Kazan rather than the actually melody-writing, since there are rather obvious points of departure between the two (For example, Sakellarides, as far as I know, chose to render soft chromatic melodies in a Western diatonic scale with the basis on a G, whereas Kazan renders soft chromatic melodies in what is essentially hard chromatic set on G).

Like Sakellarides, Kazan tends to transcribe in a manner which largely ignores any sort of analysis and basically puts metrophonia (the plain and unadorned melodic skeleton) on the page rather than melos. Like Sakellarides he can also be very inconsistent, sometimes notating things more analytically and sometimes not, with no clear reasoning as for why. Sometimes he also provides analyses which might be considered inappropriate (sometimes, the analyses he provides will run contrary to common practice and actually obscure the underlying melody). His sense of melodic attraction is often not so great, especially in plagal second. For example, the way he writes out the melody for the first "hear Thou me" in his plagal second Lord I Have Cried would be regarded as erroneous by most chanters, as the first B should be natural, not flat, and likewise with the third "hear thou me" where most experienced chanters would understand that B natural is the momentary center of the phrase and accordingly pull A sharp to it, only flattening the last B on "thou". He also, like Sakellarides, does away with many digorga and trigorga from the original melodies (as with the trigorgon in the first mode Lord I have Cried at the end of the the climactic phrase on "ἐν τῷ κεκραγέναι με πρός σέ").

Not to trash Basil Kazan's work, of course, as I understand that it was a major milestone for the Antiochian Archdiocese, but like Sakellarides' music, it will just never be my cup of tea. I wish the AANA would hurry up and decide on which direction they want to go musically.
 
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