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Reestablishment of Communion between Roman Catholics and Orthodox would change virtually nothing

FULK NERA

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Our parish office received a small booklet entitled Serving Communion last spring when the Phanar’s 2022 Himerologion finally reached us from the Metropolis. Serving Communion comprises a collection of scholarly essays from the Catholic-Orthodox interchurch dialogue going on in Europe seeking to find bases of re-establishing communion between the two churches. Since they are scholarly articles each one is modest and precise in its goals of establishing a few facts. History, doctrine and canon are discussed in ways that do not lead to flights of enthusiasm. One takeaway is that the break has many exceptions and is conditioned by local situations and changes in ecclesiastical weather. Another is that since the break in communion has never been universal nor truly final, if it is officially overcome by the Phanar and Vatican, it won’t change much in the life of parishes. Each church will continue no matter what happens between Primates to pursue its own life according to its own lights, customs will not be altered and there won’t be significant flow of laypeople between parishes of Latin and Greek jurisdictions.
As it is, it’s not possible for lay or clergy to go back and forth between Latin and Greek Catholic parishes with their respective rites. If the Primates concelebrated they would have to choose one of them themselves. The presence of a Western Rite within Orthodox communion changes virtually nothing among us on this side, nor does the Eastern Rite‘s existence change anything for Latins. It would be the same if the Phanar and Vatican
leaders visited each other and communed at each other’s parishes. Headlines, riots maybe, but no big whoop. Each administration would continue to pursue its own goals as before. I even doubt most of the Orthodox Patriarchates would schism from the Phanar.
 

RaphaCam

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Reading the first sentence of the OP, there were already three consecutive expressions that made me feel something terrible was coming up: "scholarly essays", "from the Catholic-Orthodox interchurch dialogue" and "going on in Europe". Thankfully it was a calm read.

Bring the monks back!
 

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Reading the first sentence of the OP, there were already three consecutive expressions that made me feel something terrible was coming up: "scholarly essays", "from the Catholic-Orthodox interchurch dialogue" and "going on in Europe". Thankfully it was a calm read.

Bring the monks back!
Each party has its own gifts. History and scholarship matter, and contrasting insights do not cancel each other. My main impression is that intercommunion would not change much in the internal workings of Latin or Greek churches. Also I doubt some of the other churches would even get involved. It won’t occur as some epochal change we feel immediately and will not result in much crossover or even mutual sharing.
 

RaphaCam

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Each party has its own gifts. History and scholarship matter, and contrasting insights do not cancel each other.
I agree and even wish there were more, but unfortunately mankind is proud and scholars quickly forget their studies revealed they're obviously not bishop material, for example. Not to mention that scholars think they're too smart to listen to monks whenever they disagree with scholarship, so there's a tendency to adopt modernist thinking. It's the old error of Origen and Clement of Alexandria.

My main impression is that intercommunion would not change much in the internal workings of Latin or Greek churches. Also I doubt some of the other churches would even get involved. It won’t occur as some epochal change we feel immediately and will not result in much crossover or even mutual sharing.
I don't think this can ever happen. The Orthodox Church unfortunately has a polarised dynamics, and many Greeks would rather break with the EP, which would embolden people from all over the Orthodox Church and accelerate a total break. In that wild hypothetical scenario, maybe churches like Jerusalem, Bulgaria, Poland and Albania might link Constantinople to Moscow, but it would be just a really convoluted situation, like in the times of ROCOR.

Long-term it's more difficult to say, but personally I see the RCC as a heretical institution and I believe in divine providence, so I see a scenario like you describe with suspicion.
 

sestir

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Would you agree that there is less difference between West and East than between North and South, when it comes to church culture, traditions and dogma?
 

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Our parish office received a small booklet entitled Serving Communion last spring when the Phanar’s 2022 Himerologion finally reached us from the Metropolis. Serving Communion comprises a collection of scholarly essays from the Catholic-Orthodox interchurch dialogue going on in Europe seeking to find bases of re-establishing communion between the two churches. Since they are scholarly articles each one is modest and precise in its goals of establishing a few facts. History, doctrine and canon are discussed in ways that do not lead to flights of enthusiasm. One takeaway is that the break has many exceptions and is conditioned by local situations and changes in ecclesiastical weather. Another is that since the break in communion has never been universal nor truly final, if it is officially overcome by the Phanar and Vatican, it won’t change much in the life of parishes. Each church will continue no matter what happens between Primates to pursue its own life according to its own lights, customs will not be altered and there won’t be significant flow of laypeople between parishes of Latin and Greek jurisdictions.
As it is, it’s not possible for lay or clergy to go back and forth between Latin and Greek Catholic parishes with their respective rites. If the Primates concelebrated they would have to choose one of them themselves. The presence of a Western Rite within Orthodox communion changes virtually nothing among us on this side, nor does the Eastern Rite‘s existence change anything for Latins. It would be the same if the Phanar and Vatican
leaders visited each other and communed at each other’s parishes. Headlines, riots maybe, but no big whoop. Each administration would continue to pursue its own goals as before. I even doubt most of the Orthodox Patriarchates would schism from the Phanar.
Are you running a fever?
 

FULK NERA

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Are you running a fever?
No, but do you have anything to add? I posted this not to garner cheap ad hominem attacks but to stimulate conversation. What do you suppose would happen if intercommunion were officially reestablished? I honestly think it’s a tempest in a tea pot and more untoward things have happened in the life of the Church. It would be less traumatic than schism and the effects of the false teaching of Russkiy Mir’, for instance.
 

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I agree and even wish there were more, but unfortunately mankind is proud and scholars quickly forget their studies revealed they're obviously not bishop material, for example. Not to mention that scholars think they're too smart to listen to monks whenever they disagree with scholarship, so there's a tendency to adopt modernist thinking. It's the old error of Origen and Clement of Alexandria.

I don't think this can ever happen. The Orthodox Church unfortunately has a polarised dynamics, and many Greeks would rather break with the EP, which would embolden people from all over the Orthodox Church and accelerate a total break. In that wild hypothetical scenario, maybe churches like Jerusalem, Bulgaria, Poland and Albania might link Constantinople to Moscow, but it would be just a really convoluted situation, like in the times of ROCOR.

Long-term it's more difficult to say, but personally I see the RCC as a heretical institution and I believe in divine providence, so I see a scenario like you describe with suspicion.
This just reads as a bigoted statement against scholars. The articles I read were extremely modest as I said, and descriptive of the history of schism, church self-concept and rapprochement at various levels in various places. Not sure what you,ean by the error of Origen and Clement. They were certainly not modernist in their thinking (whatever that is).
As to Greeks breaking with the EP, seems doubtful at best because those in diaspora Are far more concerned with ethnic linguistic identity than whether it’s theoretically possible to be in communion with Rome. As I said, I don’t see a lot of folks walking across the street to each other’s Eucharistic celebrations. The interest doesn’t exist.
You may see the RCC as a heretical institution but that’s not the stance of the Church as a whole, and it’s never been the universal opinion. But I appreciate your opinion and thank you for holding it out.
 

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Would you agree that there is less difference between West and East than between North and South, when it comes to church culture, traditions and dogma?
Please be more specific. I think we are close to Oriental Orthodox Churches in most ways except the explicit Christological details and the bad blood. The Latin Church is far more coherent in its teaching than the loose collective we call the Oriental Orthodox. Their own intercommunion presents to me a kind of model for what Greek-Latin intercommunion might look like — a ecclesial reality rarely acted upon in any organized way. I’m not saying I think 2025 is THE YEAR TO FIX THE SCHISM. That’s as bad as saying we must never even discuss it.
 

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No, but do you have anything to add? I posted this not to garner cheap ad hominem attacks but to stimulate conversation. What do you suppose would happen if intercommunion were officially reestablished? I honestly think it’s a tempest in a tea pot and more untoward things have happened in the life of the Church. It would be less traumatic than schism and the effects of the false teaching of Russkiy Mir’, for instance.
Ok, just checking because you wrote in another thread that you just tested positive for Covid, Lord have mercy.
I’m not knowledgeable enough in these things to predict what may happen in a universal way. I can add this much though… I suppose for just myself that if intercommunication were officially established I would be very tempted to go regularly to my old Roman Catholic Church 2 miles up the road from myself with a priest I respect and have grown to love who is dear to me and a humble man and I miss terribly, as well as a large body of believers I grew a close bond with, *many* opportunities of service for a woman like myself including Eucharist minister to the nursing homes. I would be tempted to go back to daily Mass. I would not drive an hour away to a church which keeps asking what my name is “ Mary” though it’s been a year, nor have I established any close ties to these. I go for God. I go for help. I go to worship God. But there’s no connection except with the wonderful priest. I do love him as well. It’s a foreign culture and a struggle. So I would go to what brought great joy and community on a daily basis. That’s me. I’m weak.
 

FULK NERA

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Ok, just checking because you wrote in another thread that you just tested positive for Covid, Lord have mercy.
I’m not knowledgeable enough in these things to predict what may happen in a universal way. I can add this much though… I suppose for just myself that if intercommunication were officially established I would be very tempted to go regularly to my old Roman Catholic Church 2 miles up the road from myself with a priest I respect and have grown to love who is dear to me and a humble man and I miss terribly, as well as a large body of believers I grew a close bond with, *many* opportunities of service for a woman like myself including Eucharist minister to the nursing homes. I would be tempted to go back to daily Mass. I would not drive an hour away to a church which keeps asking what my name is “ Mary” though it’s been a year, nor have I established any close ties to these. I go for God. I go for help. I go to worship God. But there’s no connection except with the wonderful priest. I do love him as well. It’s a foreign culture and a struggle. So I would go to what brought great joy and community on a daily basis. That’s me. I’m weak.
Wow! This says so much so beautifully.
Thanks for the concern and mindfulness, I am actually feeling quite well and only have the slightest congestion with no other symptoms. I’ve had colds this year that were far worse.
If more people would read what you wrote here, I think we could navigate intercommunion very well. Our Faith is embodied or it is nothing real. I think though that we’d still have to choose between rites and parish membership even if Bartholomew and Francis concelebrated.
 

LizaSymonenko

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My parish is planning to have an RC professor deliver a presentation next month on the Shroud of Turin.... He is an expert and teaches at the RC Seminary...

We figured it would be good to work together a bit more... NOT SERVE together... but, to work together in the community for the good of all... as society is furthering from God... perhaps in joining forces we can make a stronger witness for Christ... but, again... nobody is serving together... these joint ventures are outside of Liturgy.
 

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What do you suppose would happen if intercommunion were officially reestablished?
It's a matter of principle, not of utility. There's no spiritual communion between Orthodoxy and heresy (2 Corinthians 6:14), so, even though it happens all the time institutionally, the Church always found ways to separate wheat and tares when things got too dangerous, which is only avoided because no one wants to leave people on the outside (St. Matthew 13:24-30; Revelation 18:14).

I honestly think it’s a tempest in a tea pot and more untoward things have happened in the life of the Church.
We overcame those things, just like we're going to overcome pan-ecumenism.

It would be less traumatic than schism and the effects of the false teaching of Russkiy Mir’, for instance.
Russkiy Mir is bad, and in a very different sense it's also bad that not only a Jesuitic university (Fordham) has its own "Orthodox study centre" branch taken seriously, but also that its laymen wrote a text against Russkiy Mir purposefully structured like a rite of anathemas and many people were so fed up with what the content was referring to that they denied anything was wrong with it.

This just reads as a bigoted statement against scholars. The articles I read were extremely modest as I said, and descriptive of the history of schism, church self-concept and rapprochement at various levels in various places. Not sure what you,ean by the error of Origen and Clement. They were certainly not modernist in their thinking (whatever that is).
It's not bigoted at all, what I mean is there's a good, concrete and living reason why Orthodox traditions of episcopal election don't have much to do with the candidates' erudition, and these traditions should be held, since, as any scholar will tell you, we're talking about a faith in which knowledge is more mystical than intellectual. It's not difficult to verify that scholars often create controversy where there's not, as if their speculative exercises didn't have any effect on the concrete world.

This is not exclusive to the Orthodox Church. Although I disagree with the policies Thomas Sowell actually promotes, I strongly recommend his book Intellectuals and Society.

As to Greeks breaking with the EP, seems doubtful at best because those in diaspora Are far more concerned with ethnic linguistic identity than whether it’s theoretically possible to be in communion with Rome.
Most Greeks live in Greece, and even in the diaspora I'm sure there's a chunk of actual churchgoers that would follow any attempt to flee Rome.

You may see the RCC as a heretical institution but that’s not the stance of the Church as a whole, and it’s never been the universal opinion.
I'm not aware of any Orthodox saint who said the West hadn't fallen into heresy, and I'm sure my statement wouldn't sound polemical before the Ecumenical Throne was infiltrated by bishops with deep connections to British- and French-backed elements in Greek politics, flattering Anglicans in his desperation to win their support to restore the buddies to power in Greece and win the war they had started in what's now Turkey. Many of them were public Freemasons. They declaredly wished to establish a "League of Churches" and stop preaching Orthodoxy to Christians altogether, just like the League of Nations wished to end war.

So it's better to pass the fruit of the poisonous tree and stay with the Patriarchal Encyclical of 1895, which was written by a council with a very clear affirmation of heresy that most Orthodox bishops nowadays still agree with, consistent with the fact that Roman Catholics has dogmas incompatible with ours. No scholarship from either side will speak louder than either the Council of Jassy (which clearly stated that catholicity implies Roman primacy was an administrative relic) or the Western councils that created a series of dogmas around the Pope.

By the way, if those Fordham scholars knew the first thing about Orthodox Christianity, they would have quoted the Council of Jassy when condemning Russkiy Mir, since it may be read as condemning mixing up worldly power with the holiness of local churches in general, but I guess this might have created attrition with their Jesuit bosses?
 
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xariskai

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Fulk Nera said:
Reestablishment of communion between Roman Catholics and Orthodox would change virtually nothing
Seems like at a minimum Offices for the Reception of Roman Catholic Converts in our Service Books would have to have change to a blank page, or "nothing to renounce: all good" no?


Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=fBk9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA456&output=text#c_top

“Dost thou renounce the false doctrine that, for the expression of the dogma touching the Procession of the Holy Spirit, the declaration of our Saviour Christ himself: “who proceedeth from the Father”: doth not suffice; and that the addition, of man’s invention: “and from the Son”: is required?”

“Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that it doth not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ’s Body, that is to say, of the whole Church?”

“Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual power, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince: And that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor: And that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?”

“Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils, and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?”

“Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils, and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?”

“Dost thou renounce all the other doctrines of the Western Confession, both old and new, which are contrary to the Word of God, and to the true tradition of the Church, and to the decrees of the seven Ecumenical Councils?”

Along with the promises:

“Bishop. Dost thou believe and confess that power hath been given by our Saviour Christ unto the Orthodox-Catholic Church to bind and. to loose: and that whatsoever, by virtue of that power, is bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven?

Answer. I believe and confess it.

Bishop. Dost thou believe and confess that the Foundation, Head, and Great High Priest and Chief Shepherd of the Holy OrthodoxCatholic Church is our Lord Jesus Christ; and that Bishops, Pastors and Teachers are appointed by him to rule the Church; and that the Guide and Pilot of this Church is the Holy Spirit?

Answer. I believe and confess that this Church is the Bride of Christ, and that therein is true salvation, which was in the Ark of Noah at the Flood.

Bishop. Dost thou promise true obedience, unto thy life’s end, in guidance which is salutary unto the soul, to the Most Holy Synod; to the Most Holy Patriarch, the Equal-of-the-Apostles (or to the Ecclesiastical Authorities of the Autocephalous Provincial Church); and to the Bishop of this Diocese, as the true Pastors appointed by the Holy Spirit; and to the Priests ordained by them?

Answer. I promise it, with heart unfeigned.”
 
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Stinky

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Ok, just checking because you wrote in another thread that you just tested positive for Covid, Lord have mercy.
I’m not knowledgeable enough in these things to predict what may happen in a universal way. I can add this much though… I suppose for just myself that if intercommunication were officially established I would be very tempted to go regularly to my old Roman Catholic Church 2 miles up the road from myself with a priest I respect and have grown to love who is dear to me and a humble man and I miss terribly, as well as a large body of believers I grew a close bond with, *many* opportunities of service for a woman like myself including Eucharist minister to the nursing homes. I would be tempted to go back to daily Mass. I would not drive an hour away to a church which keeps asking what my name is “ Mary” though it’s been a year, nor have I established any close ties to these. I go for God. I go for help. I go to worship God. But there’s no connection except with the wonderful priest. I do love him as well. It’s a foreign culture and a struggle. So I would go to what brought great joy and community on a daily basis. That’s me. I’m weak.
And then before going to the Roman Pope I would slap myself and say, “ what are you thinking? “ and quickly drive the hour to the Orthodox Church and go to confession and repent. Because that option to flee west is open every day right now even without intercommunion and I don’t go back west for the sake of ease or convenience or for a good time with people who include me in their lives. I don’t go back for a sense of belonging in community or familiarity. I continue with the straight and narrow way though it’s hard. I don’t despise the grace of God which saved me. Lord have mercy. I am weak. Pray for me.
 

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As it is, it’s not possible for lay or clergy to go back and forth between Latin and Greek Catholic parishes with their respective rites.
Not only is it possible. It happens all the time.
 

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Shanghaiski said:
It would be ecclesiastical necrophilia.
Disgusting.
 

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If the churches ever do restore Communion, and you don't want to receive, don't. Or, change parishes to one that does not share Communion.
 

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RaphaCam said:
Most Greeks live in Greece
I can’t stop laughing. One of the largest Greek communities outside of Greece is where I live.
 

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Such as the fact that Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox do not practice intercommunion. Such as the fact that the OCA Diocese of Alaska, years ago, had to remove its bishop, because he transferred an archimandrite to another parish, after the young man in question was credibly accused of abusing a child at summer camp.

I still have a copy of the magazine with the archimandrite on a cover.
 

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Down the road from me, is a large Orthodox cathedral. Years ago, a married priest embezzled a quarter million dollars from the parish, left his wife and children of many many years, and headed for Greece.

I don’t know what happened to any of them.

Roman Catholics are not the only sinners.

May the Lord have mercy on us all.
 

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t's amazing how often various topics slide into the discussion of a regional gas station country. Not wanting to get involved in fruitless conversations, I can, firstly, suggest Googling "патриарх Кирилл об экологии". (Although I believe that the "concern for the ecology" in Christian preaching is profanation, the substitution of the eternal for the corruptible, the fact of hostile speculation is remarkable, when the truth turns out easily and simply.) Secondly, to say that I, an russian Orthodox priest, first heard about the "Russian world" on this forum. It seems that this is not so much a Russian idea as a scarecrow for the Western world. Another, out of many, reason for hatred. But with the "shining city on the hill" everything is fine, right?
It is good if such earthly disagreements remain on earth. And if not? If your civic virtue of dislike of Russians is regarded by God as a sin of hatred of one's neighbor?
 

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Here and now (well...sometimes...)
t's amazing how often various topics slide into the discussion of a regional gas station country. Not wanting to get involved in fruitless conversations, I can, firstly, suggest Googling "патриарх Кирилл об экологии". (Although I believe that the "concern for the ecology" in Christian preaching is profanation, the substitution of the eternal for the corruptible, the fact of hostile speculation is remarkable, when the truth turns out easily and simply.) Secondly, to say that I, an russian Orthodox priest, first heard about the "Russian world" on this forum. It seems that this is not so much a Russian idea as a scarecrow for the Western world. Another, out of many, reason for hatred. But with the "shining city on the hill" everything is fine, right?
It is good if such earthly disagreements remain on earth. And if not? If your civic virtue of dislike of Russians is regarded by God as a sin of hatred of one's neighbor?
I read your post twice three times and I still don't understand what it has to do with the re-establishment of communion between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. "Russian world"? Who's talking about that in this thread?

Maybe you meant to post this in a different thread?
 

hurrrah

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Oops
Sorry
 

hurrrah

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I can't find any posts about the Russian world, but I definitely stumbled over it several times on this forum.
 

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The Pope - but my heart is for Re-Union!
Our parish office received a small booklet entitled Serving Communion last spring when the Phanar’s 2022 Himerologion finally reached us from the Metropolis. Serving Communion comprises a collection of scholarly essays from the Catholic-Orthodox interchurch dialogue going on in Europe seeking to find bases of re-establishing communion between the two churches. Since they are scholarly articles each one is modest and precise in its goals of establishing a few facts. History, doctrine and canon are discussed in ways that do not lead to flights of enthusiasm. One takeaway is that the break has many exceptions and is conditioned by local situations and changes in ecclesiastical weather. Another is that since the break in communion has never been universal nor truly final, if it is officially overcome by the Phanar and Vatican, it won’t change much in the life of parishes. Each church will continue no matter what happens between Primates to pursue its own life according to its own lights, customs will not be altered and there won’t be significant flow of laypeople between parishes of Latin and Greek jurisdictions.
As it is, it’s not possible for lay or clergy to go back and forth between Latin and Greek Catholic parishes with their respective rites. If the Primates concelebrated they would have to choose one of them themselves. The presence of a Western Rite within Orthodox communion changes virtually nothing among us on this side, nor does the Eastern Rite‘s existence change anything for Latins. It would be the same if the Phanar and Vatican
leaders visited each other and communed at each other’s parishes. Headlines, riots maybe, but no big whoop. Each administration would continue to pursue its own goals as before. I even doubt most of the Orthodox Patriarchates would schism from the Phanar.
Amen! Re-Union would be great. At the local level, very little would change. Catholics and Orthodox could freely go to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Some Orthodox Christians already receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. I myself often go to Orthodox Christian Churches.

What worked, at least temporarily and for a time in the 17th century, as per the below link, must certainly not be deemed impossible today imo.

"Within the Venetian dominions it was the normal policy of the Latin authorities to do everything possible to encourage harmony between their catholic and orthodox subjects; within the Ottoman empire, servitude to the infidel made Greeks and Latins alike more conscious of the common heritage which they shared as Christians.

Writing at Rome in the 1640s, the Greek Catholic Leo Allatius remarked of the contemporary situation:

The Greeks show no abhorrence for intermarriage with the Latins; theyvfrequent the Latin churches, they attend the divine offices, the church sermons, and all the other functions of the Latins, and they entrust their sons for education at Latin hands… Greeks with Latins, and Latins with Greeks, attend worship and celebrate services indiscriminately (protniscue) in the churches of either rite."

From: https://journal.orthodoxwestblogs.c...seventeenth-century-schism-or-intercommunion/

God Bless.
 

Stinky

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[QUOTE="Xavier, post: 1640149, member: 12699

Writing at Rome in the 1640s, the Greek Catholic Leo Allatius remarked of the contemporary situation:

The Greeks show no abhorrence for intermarriage with the Latins; theyvfrequent the Latin churches, they attend the divine offices, the church sermons, and all the other functions of the Latins, and they entrust their sons for education at Latin hands… Greeks with Latins, and Latins with Greeks, attend worship and celebrate services indiscriminately (protniscue) in the churches of either rite."
[/QUOTE]

Doctrine of Balaam- assimilation of the other by co mingling and marriage and re-education. Eventually there is no orthodox as generations are diluted and polluted and absorbed into the other.
 

FULK NERA

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[QUOTE="Xavier, post: 1640149, member: 12699

Writing at Rome in the 1640s, the Greek Catholic Leo Allatius remarked of the contemporary situation:

The Greeks show no abhorrence for intermarriage with the Latins; theyvfrequent the Latin churches, they attend the divine offices, the church sermons, and all the other functions of the Latins, and they entrust their sons for education at Latin hands… Greeks with Latins, and Latins with Greeks, attend worship and celebrate services indiscriminately (protniscue) in the churches of either rite."
Doctrine of Balaam- assimilation of the other by co mingling and marriage and re-education. Eventually there is no orthodox as generations are diluted and polluted and absorbed into the other.
[/QUOTE]
I daresay history has proven your notion wrong.
The point is that the schism and rapprochement from it are complex and varied. It has not resulted in the absorption of Orthodoxy.
 

biro

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If you don’t want to go to a Roman Catholic Church… don’t.

Problem solved.
 

RaphaCam

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If you don’t want to go to a Roman Catholic Church… don’t.

Problem solved.
You do realise we're talking about the idea of not becoming Roman Catholics ourselves, right? Also that being in communion with someone in full communion with Roman Catholics isn't exactly not being in communion? Communion isn't some diplomatic token, it's the centre of Orthodox ecclesiology.

If you chose to not be Orthodox anymore, it might be wiser not to try lecturing us on our theology.
 
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