removing a girl child from her mother

Poppy

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In Orthodoxy does a child of divorced parents have to go live with the father when she is 9 because she needs a mahram?

In Islam this is the case
 

Volnutt

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A relative whom one is forbidden to marry. I don't think unmarried pubescent girls are allowed to live in a house with no male mahram (though this says differently), I know they at least aren't allowed to travel without one.
 

ZealousZeal

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No, we don't have that. We have rules about who you can and cannot marry (including children of your godparents, your godchildren, etc.), but Orthodoxy doesn't make a child live with one parent over the other for such reasons.
 

Mor Ephrem

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I still don't get it.  In Islam, a nine year old daughter of divorced parents has to leave her mother to live with her father because she needs a relative she can't marry...and her mother doesn't count?
 

Volnutt

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Mor Ephrem said:
I still don't get it.  In Islam, a nine year old daughter of divorced parents has to leave her mother to live with her father because she needs a relative she can't marry...and her mother doesn't count?
The mother doesn't count because she's not male.

This says that after 9, the Islamic definition of puberty, the kid gets to choose as long as one parent is not an "evildoer" and the mother does not remarry.

This, however, seems to imply that the postpubescent girl must live with her father until marriage.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Volnutt said:
Mor Ephrem said:
I still don't get it.  In Islam, a nine year old daughter of divorced parents has to leave her mother to live with her father because she needs a relative she can't marry...and her mother doesn't count?
The mother doesn't count because she's not male.
Doesn't sound suspicious at all.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
I still don't get it.  In Islam, a nine year old daughter of divorced parents has to leave her mother to live with her father because she needs a relative she can't marry...and her mother doesn't count?
Just a guess, but one someone who knows more about Islam might want to comment on: Perhaps this has something to do with male relatives having a duty to protect their unmarried female kin after they reach a certain age.
 

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FinnJames said:
Mor Ephrem said:
I still don't get it.  In Islam, a nine year old daughter of divorced parents has to leave her mother to live with her father because she needs a relative she can't marry...and her mother doesn't count?
Just a guess, but one someone who knows more about Islam might want to comment on: Perhaps this has something to do with male relatives having a duty to protect their unmarried female kin after they reach a certain age.
YES it does and to be responsible for accompanying her while out and to find a husband for her when the time is right. If a girl lives with her father then she naturally has all this in him, where as with the mother, she does not UNLESS there are uncles, older brothers etc.

What are the 'rights' of the parent, to their children in Orthodoxy please? Are there any codified? Does the Church have it's own judicial system within it or separate to it?
 

TheTrisagion

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No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
Actually, the Church considers issues of marriage, family, and divorce to be religious matters and there is canonical literature which addresses these issues. 
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
Actually, the Church considers issues of marriage, family, and divorce to be religious matters and there is canonical literature which addresses these issues.
Then I stand corrected.  :)
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
Actually, the Church considers issues of marriage, family, and divorce to be religious matters and there is canonical literature which addresses these issues.
So, would you say that the canons say anything about parental custody? I don't know whether they do or not.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Volnutt said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
Actually, the Church considers issues of marriage, family, and divorce to be religious matters and there is canonical literature which addresses these issues.
So, would you say that the canons say anything about parental custody? I don't know whether they do or not.
I'd have to read them more closely to see.  I skimmed through them recently, but it was quickly and not in English. 
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
Volnutt said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
No, there is no religious judicial system within Orthodoxy for non-religious matters. If a priest was teaching heresy, there is a system in place to handle that, but in civil matters, such situations would likely just be addressed by divorce courts, although I suppose people could go to their priest for guidance.
Actually, the Church considers issues of marriage, family, and divorce to be religious matters and there is canonical literature which addresses these issues.
So, would you say that the canons say anything about parental custody? I don't know whether they do or not.
I'd have to read them more closely to see.  I skimmed through them recently, but it was quickly and not in English.
He skimmed the canons recently but not in English, he says.


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