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Responding to CARM's claims of Church Fathers who denied the Local Presence

xariskai

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I think it can be confusing to make statements like "God died" or "...didn't die."
We don't typically say "God died", but rather "God died in the flesh".
God died.
I find no profit in debating on this topic... I expect other Orthodox themselves could make various clarifications about these things.
E.g.
"Of course, the Church never had the slightest doubt that God had died...
"We would even accept that the churches, the temples, are “the tombs and graves of God.” Nevertheless … we recognize, experience and worship this God who has died...

"The death of God overturned the powers of Hades; death itself was reduced to nothing more than a mere incident introducing humanity from death to Life. The Churches, those “tombs of God,” are the wide-open gates of divine love, the opened entrance to the Bridal chamber of God’s Son, who “came out of the tomb as from a Bridegroom,” while we faithful enter therein and “celebrate the death of death, the annihilation of Hades, the beginning of a new, eternal way of life; and, thus rejoicing, we offer hymns to the cause, namely the only blessed and glorious God of our fathers..."

"It is fortunate, then, that God died because His death became the source of our life and resurrection. It is fortunate that there are so many of His “tombs” throughout the world, so many sacred temples, where each of can freely enter when we are in pain, tired, and in need of consolation in order lay before God the burden of our suffering, agony, fear and insecurity – namely, in order to become rid of our death..."

-Partriarch Bartholomew

Cf. previous post
 
Last edited:

rakovsky

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E.g.
"Of course, the Church never had the slightest doubt that God had died...
"We would even accept that the churches, the temples, are “the tombs and graves of God.” Nevertheless … we recognize, experience and worship this God who has died...

"The death of God overturned the powers of Hades; death itself was reduced to nothing more than a mere incident introducing humanity from death to Life. The Churches, those “tombs of God,” are the wide-open gates of divine love, the opened entrance to the Bridal chamber of God’s Son, who “came out of the tomb as from a Bridegroom,” while we faithful enter therein and “celebrate the death of death, the annihilation of Hades, the beginning of a new, eternal way of life; and, thus rejoicing, we offer hymns to the cause, namely the only blessed and glorious God of our fathers..."

"It is fortunate, then, that God died because His death became the source of our life and resurrection. It is fortunate that there are so many of His “tombs” throughout the world, so many sacred temples, where each of can freely enter when we are in pain, tired, and in need of consolation in order lay before God the burden of our suffering, agony, fear and insecurity – namely, in order to become rid of our death..."

-Partriarch Bartholomew

Cf. previous post
Xariskai:
The discussion is interesting and active, and I like the forum staying active, but the "God is dead" discussion is worth having a thread of its own. So I made a thread replying to you here:

Peace.
 

Johnhus2021

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all I know as a Lutheran we believe Jesus is truly present in the wine and bread
even through they physically do not change in physical appearance
but we do not believe in transubstation we believe it is a mystery
and do not believe you can know the precise moment it becomes the real body and blood of Jesus nor do we know how long the Holy Spirit dwell in the gifts on the altar and we get flack from other Protestants who say it’s a symbol and a memorial a remembrance I say to them it is that and more
just as a Lutheran I believe the virgin Mary is the mother god
I also believe she never had relations with her husband Joseph they lived
like brother and sister and she was ever virgin and Jesus did not have any brothers or sisters I believe that verse that says brothers and sisters was in reality was because Aramaic does not have a word for cousins
 
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