The Caffeinator writes:
[Your post doesn't answer why time after time, the east looked to Rome for "clarifications."]
Reply: When the RCC was still in union with the OCC, our churches did consider the Roman Church to have a position of primacy. But what kind of primacy? The Church, east and west did not consider the pope to be ruler of the universal church.
--------
(*) Canon 4 of the Council of Sardica decided that any bishop deposed by a synod of his own province has a right to appeal to Rome, who will judge and render a decision. But beyond this, the Church never considered the pope's jurisdiction (his authority to govern and legislate) to extend into the east. He did not have any power to interfere in the internal affairs of the other churches. The pope in the early centuries was considered primus inter pares (first amongst equals) in relation to the other patriarchs. Until the late 7th century nothing more than this type of primacy was claimed by the popes.
----------
A pope could not summon Ecumenical Councils (which alone decided controversies); he had to petition the emporer to do so. It was not the pope's right to preside over them in person or by a representative. The pope's signature was not required to validate their decrees. Councils regarded as ecumenical (binding) by East and West alike, were convened and issued their degrees without submitting them to the supreme or final approval of the pope.
In the earliest years there were three controversaries between Churches (one about Easter [Pascha], one about heretical baptism, and one other) in which the popes were unable to carry out their own will and practice, and the othere Churches kept their different usage without its leading to any permanent division. The pope's authority did not extend beyond his own territory, and certainly not into the East. The early Church COULD NOT have considered the pope's authority to extend over all the world; otherwise the wordlwide Church would not have decided at its (**) council of Chalcedon (canon 28) to recognize Constantinople as a patriarchate of the highest level, second to Rome in rank but EQUAL TO ROME IN RIGHTS. (The Council explicity says it recognizes these two positions only because Rome, and later Constantinople, was the capital of the Roman empire.
=========================
Canons of The Orthodox Church -
http://aggreen.net/canons/canons.html
(*)
Sardica was the first synod which asserted, in some sense, Roman primacy in the Church
(Greek Verion)
BISHOP HOSIUS said: Decreed, that if any bishop is accused, and the bishops of the same region assemble and depose him from his office, and he appealing, so to speak, takes refuge with the most blessed bishop of the Roman church, and he be willing to give him a hearing, and think it right to renew the examination of his case, let him be pleased to write to those fellow-bishops who are nearest the province that they may examine the particulars with care and accuracy and give their votes on the matter in accordance with the word of truth. And if any one require that his case be heard yet again, and at his request it seem good to move the bishop of Rome to send presbyters a latere, let it be in the power of that bishop, according as he judges it to be good and decides it to be right--that some be sent to be judges with the bishops and invested with his authority by whom they were sent. And be this also ordained. But if he think that the bishops are sufficient for the examination and decision of the matter let him do what shall seem good in his most prudent judgment.
The bishops answered: What has been said is approved.
(Latin Version)
BISHOP HOSIUS said: Further decreed, that if a bishop is accused, and the bishops of that region assemble and depose him from his office, if he who has been deposed shall appeal and take refuge with the bishop of the Roman church and wishes to be given a hearing, if he think it right that the trial or examination of his case be renewed, let him be pleased to write to those bishops who are in an adjacent and neighbouring province, that they may diligently inquire into all the particulars and decide according to the word of truth. But if he who asks to have his case reheard, shall by his entreaty move the Bishop of Rome to send a presbyter a latere it shall be in the power of that bishop to do what he shall resolve and determine upon; and if he shall decide that some be sent, who shall be present and be judges with the bishops invested with his authority by whom they were appointed, it shall be as he shall choose. But if he believe that the bishops suffice to give a final decision, he shall do what he shall termine upon in his most wise judgment.
selected from Henry R. Percival, ed.,The Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Undivided Church, Vol XIV of Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, 2nd series, edd. Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, (repr. Edinburgh: T&T Clark; Grand Rapids MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1988) p. 419
----------
(**)
The bishop of New Rome shall enjoy THE SAME HONOR as the bishop of Old Rome ON ACCOUNT OF THE REMOVAL OF THE EMPIRE. For this reason the Metropolitans of Pontus, of Asia, and of Thrace, as well as the barbarian bishops shall be ordained by the bishop of Constantinople.
==========
I have read the following claim in both RC sites as well as its sui juris churches -
"The pope has consistly asked the Orthodox how they would perceive his role in a reunited church and THE ORTHODOX FAIL TO RESPOND!"
Nothing could be further from the truth. We Orthodox Catholics have consistently responded to the pope on this matter. From a book called 'Orthodoxy In Conversation - Orthodox Ecumenical Engagements' by Emmaneul Clapsis here is the Orthodox response for all to read:
++++++++++
Based on Christian tradition, it is possible to affirm the validity of the church of Rome's claim of universal primacy. Orthodox theology, however, objects to the identification of this primacy as "supreme power" transforming Rome into the principium radix et origio of the unity of the Church and the Church itself. The Church from the first days of its existence undeniably possesed an ecumenical centre of unity and agreement. In the apostolic and judeao-Christian period this centre of first the church of Jerusalem and later the church of Rome --"presiding in Agape" according to St Ignatios of Antioch. FOR THE ORTHODOX, THE ESSENCE AND PURPOSE OF THIS PRIMACY IS TO EXPRESS AND PRESERVE THE UNANIMINTY OF ALL CHURCHES: TO KEEP THEM FROM ISOLATING THEMSELVES INTO ECCLESIASTICAL PROVINCIALISM,LOSING THE CATHOLICITY, SEPARATING THEMSELVES FROM THE UNITY OF LIFE. IT MEANS ULTIMATELY TO ASSUME THE CARE, THE SOLLICITUDO OF THE CHURCHES SO THAT EACH ONE OF THEM CAN ABIDE IN THAT FULLNESS WHICH IS ALWAYS PART OF THAT WHOLE CATHOLIC TRADITION AND NOT ANY ONE "PART" OF IT.
{THE IDEA OF PRIMACY THUS EXCLUDES THE IDEA OF JURISDICTION BUT IMPLIES THAT OF AN "ORDER" OF CHURCH WHICH DOES NOT SUBORDINATE ONE CHURCH TO ANOTHER, BUT WHAT MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR ALL CHURCHES TO LIVE TOGETHER THIS LIFE OF ALL IN EACH AND OF EACH IN ALL.}
In summary, Orthodoxy does not reject Roman Primacy as such, but simply a particular way of understanding that primacy. WITHIN A REINTEGRATED CHRISTENDOM THE BISHOP OF ROME WILL BE CONSIDERED PRIMUS INTER PARES SERVING THE UNITY OF GOD'S CHURCH IN LOVE. HE CANNOT BE ACCEPTED AS OVER THE CHURCH AS RULER WHOSE DIAKONIA IS CONCEIVED THROUGH LEGALISTIC CATEGORIES OF POWER AND JURISDICTION. HIS AUTHORITY MUST BE UNDERSTOOD, NOT ACCORDING TO STANDARDS OF EARTHLY AUTHORITY AND DOMINATION, BUT ACCORDING TO TERMS OF LOVING MINISTRY AND HUMBLE SERVICE Matt. 20:25-27).
<snipe>
In a reintergrated Christendom, when the pope takes his place once more as primus inter parus within the Orthodox Catholic communion, THE BISHOP OF ROME WILL HAVE THE INITIATIVE TO SUMMON A SYNOD OF THE WHOLE CHURCH. THE BISHOP OF ROME WILL OF COURSE PRESIDE OVER SUCH A SYNOD AND HIS OFFICE MAY COORDINATE THE LIFE AND THE WITNESS OF THE ORTHODOX CATHOLIC CHURCH AND IN TIMES OF NEED BE ITS SPOKESMAN. THE ROLE OF ACTING AS THE VOICE OF THE CHURCH IS NOT, HOWEVER, TO BE RESTRICTED TO ANY HIERACHAL ORDER WITHIN THE CHURCH, STILL LESS TO A SINGLE SEE. IN PRINCIPLE, ANY BISHOP, PRIEST OR LAYMAN MAY BE CALLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO PROCLAIM THE TRUE FAITH.
In 1974 our consultation stated: "The Church is the communion of believers living in Jesus Christ with the Father. It has its origins and prototype in the Trinity IN WHICH THERE IS BOTH DISTINCTION OF PERSONS AND UNITY BASED ON LOVE, NOT SUBORDINATION."
==========
Orthodoc
