Rome to US Eastern Catholics: New Priests Should “Embrace Celibacy”

PeterTheAleut

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Zenovia said:
Pravoslavbob said:
dzheremi said:
....What is it about Rome that makes it talk out of both sides of its mouth regarding such disciplines? Either you have your "two lungs" or you don't....
It's really quite simple, though Rome will never admit it.  It is a question of power and control.  Celibate priests can be (and are) moved around at will by bishops.  Think of it:  if Rome had lots of married clergy, they would have to consider disruptions to family and married life before moving clergy around.  Moreover, having married clergy would really disrupt the whole "men's club" structure that now exists in the Roman hierarchy.  Imagine women having a direct effect on the opinions and actions of clergy and of clerics having to adapt to the idea of having women "hanging around" in areas that were hitherto the exclusive domain of a celibate male elite.  

Above all else, Rome wants current power structures to remain as they are.  The more married Eastern clergy are seen to be existing in North American parishes, the more worried the Roman hierarchy is that they will be called out for their hypocrisy on not permitting married Latin rite clergy, and the more threatened they will feel about the existence of a parallel hierarchy in communion with Rome but not following Roman discipline.

And Rome is fully aware that that is all that clerical celibacy is: a discipline.  They know that it is not a point of doctrine at all.  And yet, from time to time, one notices this or that cardinal or prelate extolling the virtues of clerical celibacy, lauding it as a "precious gift from the Lord to His Church" or some such pseudo-pious rubbish.  
In your view then, 'monastism' is not a gift from God but  merely a discipline?  Where then does that leave the saints, since sanctity cannot be achieved without celibacy?
You do realize that the subject of discussion here is clerical celibacy, not mere celibacy per se? No one said anything about monasticism.
 

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podkarpatska said:
This is causing quite the stir within the EC community, particularly in the UGCC in the USA and Canada.
It would be nice if the hierarchs of Eastern Europe came out and spoke against this, particularly His Beatitude Sviatoslav.

I think it is critical that the Churches of Eastern Europe, those who came into communion via Brest or Uzhhorod, stick together irrespective of whether they are formally bound together (as in the case of the the UGCC) or not (as is the case with the Ruthenian Churches). When this happens, in solidarity with the other Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches, finality may finally be forced on this and other unfortunate subjects in the history of the Eastern Catholic experience.
 

ialmisry

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Curious Joe said:
podkarpatska said:
This is causing quite the stir within the EC community, particularly in the UGCC in the USA and Canada.
It would be nice if the hierarchs of Eastern Europe came out and spoke against this, particularly His Beatitude Sviatoslav.
That certainly would be a test of his insistance on his ecclesiastical community being a world wide church, which I expect to cross the Vatican sometime soon. 
 

elijahmaria

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JR said:
Signaling a possible shift in policy, Catholic News Service today reported the comments of the head of the papal office overseeing US Eastern Catholic Bishops that new vocations to the priesthood in US Eastern Catholic Churches should be “embracing celibacy” because “mandatory celibacy is the general rule for priests” in the US. For the past several years, Eastern Catholic Bishops in the US have had the option of requesting dispensations from the celibacy rule from Rome to allow for the ordination of married men to the priesthood. While it is not yet known if this signifies a change in policy on the issue, this is the first time in decades for a Vatican official to publicly encourage celibacy for Eastern Catholic clergy. It also contrasts with recent allowances of some ordinations of married men to the priesthood in the Latin Rite among clergy converts from Protestant churches.

http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/rome-to-us-eastern-catholics-new-priests-should-embrace-celibacy/
All this represents is a the personal opinion of a Cardinal in Rome.  Who knows why he said it.  I can think of half a dozen reasons, including the possibility that some Roman rite bishops in the US asked him to...

So what...nothing else has changed.

BTW  I think Zenovia is a bright bold soul.... ;)
 

ialmisry

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elijahmaria said:
JR said:
Signaling a possible shift in policy, Catholic News Service today reported the comments of the head of the papal office overseeing US Eastern Catholic Bishops that new vocations to the priesthood in US Eastern Catholic Churches should be “embracing celibacy” because “mandatory celibacy is the general rule for priests” in the US. For the past several years, Eastern Catholic Bishops in the US have had the option of requesting dispensations from the celibacy rule from Rome to allow for the ordination of married men to the priesthood. While it is not yet known if this signifies a change in policy on the issue, this is the first time in decades for a Vatican official to publicly encourage celibacy for Eastern Catholic clergy. It also contrasts with recent allowances of some ordinations of married men to the priesthood in the Latin Rite among clergy converts from Protestant churches.

http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/rome-to-us-eastern-catholics-new-priests-should-embrace-celibacy/
All this represents is a the personal opinion of a Cardinal in Rome.  Who knows why he said it.  I can think of half a dozen reasons, including the possibility that some Roman rite bishops in the US asked him to...

So what...nothing else has changed.
you're right.  That particular law the Easterners who have submitted to the Vatican has not been promulgated.

But the silence on it on the Latin, i.e. Vatican,'s side has been broken.

elijahmaria said:
BTW  I think Zenovia is a bright bold soul.... ;)
The blessings of....
 

Deacon Lance

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podkarpatska said:
But what is to stop the Congregation from ordering the return of priests ordained by eparchs in Europe to their original jurisdiction?
Nothing I suppose.  But what is going to make the bishops obey?  And there is always citizenship.  Some become American citizens and give up their old citizenship.  A cardinal tried this one already in Poland except th married priest were born in and citizens of Poland  not Ukraine.  The curia issues orders hoping they will comply knowing they really can't force them to do anything.
 

ialmisry

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Deacon Lance said:
podkarpatska said:
But what is to stop the Congregation from ordering the return of priests ordained by eparchs in Europe to their original jurisdiction?
Nothing I suppose.  But what is going to make the bishops obey?  
Abp. Hefele learned the lesson of renewal of "faculties" the hard way.
 

PJ

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Do anything think we should have a separate thread for one or the other of these 2 conversations?
 

PJ

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(deleted -- decided to take my own advice and start a different thread, now that the original discussing is totally buried)

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44881.new.html
 

PJ

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(deleted -- decided to take my own advice and start a different thread, now that the original discussion is totally buried)

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44881.new.html
 

PJ

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So what I'm hearing is that if married EC priests aren't allowed in the US, that will severely harm Orthodox-Catholic relations. Is that accurate?
 

LBK

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PeterTheAleut said:
Has anyone else here caught the oxymoron in the phrase "embrace celibacy"? :laugh:
Cute.  :laugh: :laugh:
 

ialmisry

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Peter J said:
So what I'm hearing is that if married EC priests aren't allowed in the US, that will severely harm Orthodox-Catholic relations. Is that accurate?
No.  The sheep who wandered astray might flock back like those who followed the Shepherd St. Alexis, embrace Orthodoxy and re-inter the Catholic Church.  How the Vatican takes that doesn't matter.
 

podkarpatska

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primuspilus said:
I gotta say, that if I were an EC this would really make me wonder about the promises of Rome. Of course, this isn't a demand, but it can very easily become one.

PP

While we Orthodox frequently complain about the Eastern Catholic churches in our midst (such as Metropolitan Hilarion's recent comments discussed earlier this year), the reality is that Orthodox leaders who are at least open-minded regarding dialogue with the Church of Rome (as well as those of us who profess more suspicion) tend to view the Eastern Churches as a 'canary' in the Roman mine shaft. These recent developments were received either with sadness or "I told you so" depending on your stand as they indicate a lack of 'oxygen' in Rome's view of the east.  This should make EC's fret about their future. As we say, the door is always open here!
 

PJ

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podkarpatska said:
primuspilus said:
I gotta say, that if I were an EC this would really make me wonder about the promises of Rome. Of course, this isn't a demand, but it can very easily become one.

PP

While we Orthodox frequently complain about the Eastern Catholic churches in our midst (such as Metropolitan Hilarion's recent comments discussed earlier this year), the reality is that Orthodox leaders who are at least open-minded regarding dialogue with the Church of Rome (as well as those of us who profess more suspicion) tend to view the Eastern Churches as a 'canary' in the Roman mine shaft. These recent developments were received either with sadness or "I told you so" depending on your stand as they indicate a lack of 'oxygen' in Rome's view of the east.  This should make EC's fret about their future. As we say, the door is always open here!
I've been hearing Orthodox say this sort of thing for many years now; but just in the last couple years I've started to wonder if this isn't the first part of a bait-and-switch.  :(
 
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