• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Severian is Gone.....

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( He just wrote in his pm's that he is leaving  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I never knew I would be so unhappy here, while talking about my favorite subjects.
 

RobS

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
2
Points
38
INB4 lock to be indefinitely reviewed.
 

Luke

Merarches
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
8,096
Reaction score
517
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Metropolis of San Francisco
It is always the good poster who leave. :(
 

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
 

lovesupreme

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
1,451
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Faith
Orthodox
People come and go here. It's sometimes for the best. I wish Severian well in his journeys.
 

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,753
Reaction score
284
Points
83
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
 

Salpy

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
14,501
Reaction score
18
Points
38
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
What did you say?  ???
 

Volnutt

Hoplitarches
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
15,089
Reaction score
10
Points
0
Age
36
Faith
Evangelical by default
Jurisdiction
Spiritually homeless
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
As I recall, he's left and come back at least once before as have I. I doubt he's gone for good. And I agree with Nick, you aren't at fault.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,394
Points
113
Age
161
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
I will miss his thread resurrections. 

Oh well, he'll be back.  They always do.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,010
Reaction score
358
Points
83
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
People generally don't leave over a comment. He has expressed a number of times his struggle with living out his faith well in an online format.  It is probably something we should all introspectively examine to ensure we are loving those we are corresponding with. I wish the best for Severian, I like him as a poster and hope that he will be back.
 

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
Salpy said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
What did you say?  ???
I was talking to him about the posters who have a bad habit here on OC with sarcasm, or idling away their time in debates , or making posts to puff themselves up and look good, who don't know how to go out into the world to heal the world instead of add to sickness online here. Hevis a very smart individual and the first person I've gotten to speak to that is part of the Alexandrian patriarchate.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,010
Reaction score
358
Points
83
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Seraffa said:
Salpy said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
What did you say?  ???
I was talking to him about the posters who have a bad habit here on OC with sarcasm, or idling away their time in debates , or making posts to puff themselves up and look good, who don't know how to go out into the world to heal the world instead of add to sickness online here. Hevis a very smart individual and the first person I've gotten to speak to that is part of the Alexandrian patriarchate.
You can just mention me by name. I won't be offended.  :p
 

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
rakovsky said:
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
My information underneath my icon says who I am. My point with Alpo reporting him to a moderator is that if some layman like that is nosy and sarcastic towards a Priests  wife online, who already knows about the hectic life a clergy husband has, how does he expect to be anything but a sarcastic stumbling block or a gossip in real life when faced with real people around him who are patiently waiting for the Presbyter to return? My son was not raised this way and unfortunately when a person is nosy and sarcastic like that in a conversation that doesn't include them, they are showing themselves to me more of an attention seeking and sulky 3 year old child rather than thinking like an adult about other adults.
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
13,021
Reaction score
701
Points
113
Age
50
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Just a couple of points to keep in mind:

1. The moderating team will not be used as a club to silence other posters. There is no need to announce in public that you will or have reported someone. If their actions are actionable, they will hear from the moderating team. Disciplinary issues are not the stuff of public deliberation.

2. Profiles are not verifiable. Anyone can put anything they want on there, present themselves as anything they will. Some people tend to take such information at face value, others tend to doubt or outright disbelieve. On top of everything else, text doesn't convey nuances very well at all, and misunderstandings, especially of intention, happen all the time, especially if there are language barriers in place. Taking things personally is just a shortcut to frustration.

That is all. Carry on.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,010
Reaction score
358
Points
83
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Arachne said:
Just a couple of points to keep in mind:

1. The moderating team will not be used as a club to silence other posters. There is no need to announce in public that you will or have reported someone. If their actions are actionable, they will hear from the moderating team. Disciplinary issues are not the stuff of public deliberation.

2. Profiles are not verifiable. Anyone can put anything they want on there, present themselves as anything they will. Some people tend to take such information at face value, others tend to doubt or outright disbelieve. On top of everything else, text doesn't convey nuances very well at all, and misunderstandings, especially of intention, happen all the time, especially if there are language barriers in place. Taking things personally is just a shortcut to frustration.

That is all. Carry on.
For the record, I am actually the humble servant and spokesperson for the 14th apostle, Mor Ephrem (pbuh).
 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,753
Reaction score
284
Points
83
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
Seraffa said:
rakovsky said:
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
My information underneath my icon says who I am. My point with Alpo reporting him to a moderator is that if some layman [ALPO] like that is nosy and sarcastic towards a Priests  wife online [SERAFFA?], who already knows about the hectic life a clergy husband has, how does he expect to be anything but a sarcastic stumbling block or a gossip in real life when faced with real people around him who are patiently waiting for the Presbyter to return?
OK, so you mean that he was sarcastic to you and you are the Armenian priest's wife?
So you are in the GOA and your husband is an Armenian in the GOA?
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,863
Reaction score
86
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Seraffa said:
rakovsky said:
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
My information underneath my icon says who I am. My point with Alpo reporting him to a moderator is that if some layman like that is nosy and sarcastic towards a Priests  wife online, who already knows about the hectic life a clergy husband has, how does he expect to be anything but a sarcastic stumbling block or a gossip in real life when faced with real people around him who are patiently waiting for the Presbyter to return? My son was not raised this way and unfortunately when a person is nosy and sarcastic like that in a conversation that doesn't include them, they are showing themselves to me more of an attention seeking and sulky 3 year old child rather than thinking like an adult about other adults.

but doing it in PM's is -soooo- much less gossipy and sarcastic?


Seraffa said:
I was talking to him about the posters who have a bad habit here on OC with sarcasm, or idling away their time in debates , or making posts to puff themselves up and look good, who don't know how to go out into the world to heal the world instead of add to sickness online here.



 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Seraffa said:
rakovsky said:
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
My information underneath my icon says who I am. My point with Alpo reporting him to a moderator is that if some layman like that is nosy and sarcastic towards a Priests  wife online, who already knows about the hectic life a clergy husband has, how does he expect to be anything but a sarcastic stumbling block or a gossip in real life when faced with real people around him who are patiently waiting for the Presbyter to return? My son was not raised this way and unfortunately when a person is nosy and sarcastic like that in a conversation that doesn't include them, they are showing themselves to me more of an attention seeking and sulky 3 year old child rather than thinking like an adult about other adults.
And what you do here is slandering your ex(husband) without giving any proofs or right for him to defend and criticizing other posters' way of posting withoung proving anything you write as well. How is that better?

And Alpo is actually one of the calmest and most levelled posters here. You may thirstly try to read what people write before throwing unfounded accusations all around you.

rakovsky said:
So you are in the GOA and your husband is an Armenian in the GOA?
Maybe Alpo is Armenian. Or a wife of Armenian priest. Or an Armenian wife of a priest. The world is full of mysteries.
 

RobS

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
2
Points
38
mike said:
Seraffa said:
rakovsky said:
NicholasMyra said:
Seraffa said:
Maybe I pushed him to leave. I said something. Maybe I am at fault. When I said something, he was gone - just like that. Through the prayers of Fr. Lazarus Al-Antony in the desert, I hope God bestows us clarity +
Presvytera you didn't do anything to make him leave.
Oh, so she is the wife of an Armenian priest she mentioned before?
My information underneath my icon says who I am. My point with Alpo reporting him to a moderator is that if some layman like that is nosy and sarcastic towards a Priests  wife online, who already knows about the hectic life a clergy husband has, how does he expect to be anything but a sarcastic stumbling block or a gossip in real life when faced with real people around him who are patiently waiting for the Presbyter to return? My son was not raised this way and unfortunately when a person is nosy and sarcastic like that in a conversation that doesn't include them, they are showing themselves to me more of an attention seeking and sulky 3 year old child rather than thinking like an adult about other adults.
And what you do here is slandering your ex(husband) without giving any proofs or right for him to defend and criticizing other posters' way of posting withoung proving anything you write as well. How is that better?

And Alpo is actually one of the calmest and most levelled posters here. You may thirstly try to read what people write before throwing unfounded accusations all around you.

rakovsky said:
So you are in the GOA and your husband is an Armenian in the GOA?
Maybe Alpo is Armenian. Or a wife of Armenian priest. Or an Armenian wife of a priest. The world is full of mysteries.
Stop this insensitive foolishness please.
 

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
:) they have their right to talk -- let them. God gives everyone free will, and tongues to use.
It is evident that all here love Alpo, and I want to love him with Agape just as they do.
Alpo: I am concerned for you. Whatever this means to you; or if it doesn't mean anything to you, you can forget it. But -- since you are posting in an American based forum, I just want to remind you, Alpo, that in American, your name literally means "can of dog food." This may be something you wish to change in the future, as you post to Americans and to the world around you. That is all, and God bless you.  :)
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Portland, Oregon
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
Seraffa said:
:) they have their right to talk -- let them. God gives everyone free will, and tongues to use.
It is evident that all here love Alpo, and I want to love him with Agape just as they do.
Alpo: I am concerned for you. Whatever this means to you; or if it doesn't mean anything to you, you can forget it. But -- since you are posting in an American based forum, I just want to remind you, Alpo, that in American, your name literally means "can of dog food." This may be something you wish to change in the future, as you post to Americans and to the world around you. That is all, and God bless you.  :)
So he wants to be thought of as a can of dog food. What's wrong with that?
 

ZealousZeal

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
3,980
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Age
35
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
ZealousZeal said:
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
But you are talking about English. Maybe in American his nick literally means that.

Who else speaks American here and can help?
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,010
Reaction score
358
Points
83
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
ZealousZeal said:
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
PM to Fr. George to change my screen name.
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,863
Reaction score
86
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
mike said:
ZealousZeal said:
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
But you are talking about English. Maybe in American his nick literally means that.

Who else speaks American here and can help?

Alpo is a brand name.

Not a descriptive term that means 'can of dog food'


It has not yet reached the ranks of 'kleenex' or 'xerox' where the brand name takes over the meaning of the entire class of that thing.

 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,753
Reaction score
284
Points
83
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
Seraffa,

Alpo Aaltokoski Company on Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/aaltokoski
Ritualistic and earthy corporeal expressions, refined visual insight, flashes of the Finnish mindscape in modern dress and winding paths towards peace of mind.
It's a Finnish first name.

Rakovsky is also the name of a beer brand or manufacturer. Does that mean that my name means beer?

This is strange.

 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,445
Reaction score
341
Points
83
Age
41
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Faith
Mercenary Freudianism
Jurisdiction
Texas Feminist Coptic
ZealousZeal said:
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
God grant you many clones!
 

Ainnir

Merarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
8,355
Reaction score
1,462
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
mike said:
ZealousZeal said:
Not to quibble, but Alpo does not literally mean "can of dog food" any more than Febreeze literally means "house refresher spray for the lazy".
But you are talking about English. Maybe in American his nick literally means that.

Who else speaks American here and can help?
It is euphemistically used to mean canned dog food, yes.  As in, "Eat Alpo during your working years so you can eat steak in your retirement years."  (approximate quote from Dave Ramsey).  This is a metaphor in and of itself, but it demonstrates how the word might be used.

However, how widespread is this use?  I'm not sure.  It's not something I hear used a lot, but when I hear it, I understand the context and others around seem to as well, for whatever a tiny sliver of society is worth.  ;)

It apparently has [an]other more nefarious use, though.
 

Ainnir

Merarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
8,355
Reaction score
1,462
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Seraffa said:
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( He just wrote in his pm's that he is leaving  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I never knew I would be so unhappy here, while talking about my favorite subjects.
I appreciated his posts, too.  Hopefully his exit is simply in his own best interest, and not a result of negative experiences.  I wish him well. 
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
39
Points
48
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
EOTC, but Coptic for now
bummer he had some great posts, and seem like a great guy. He will be missed.
 

LizaSymonenko

Hoplitarches
Staff member
Global Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
16,819
Reaction score
914
Points
113
Location
Detroit
Website
uocofusa.org
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
May God bless Severian on his journey...and may that journey lead him back to us in the future.

In the meantime....why are we picking on Alpo?  I find it offensive.  Comparing him to a 3 year old child.  I have never equated him with a can of dog food.  That is so mean.  Alpo...I hope you don't take any of this to heart.
 

RobS

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
2
Points
38
orthonorm has been banned, can't you all be happy for a change? Sheesh. Leaving before the party gets started Severian!
 

Seraffa

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
57
Location
Irving, TX
Faith
Coptic Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the Southern U.S.
nothing said:
orthonorm has been banned, can't you all be happy for a change? Sheesh. Leaving before the party gets started Severian!
Severian is gone.  >>>>>>Where is Alpo<<<<< Not a peep from him yet. He is teaching me how to lurk. Thank you, Alpo.
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,863
Reaction score
86
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Seraffa said:
nothing said:
orthonorm has been banned, can't you all be happy for a change? Sheesh. Leaving before the party gets started Severian!
Severian is gone.  >>>>>>Where is Alpo<<<<< Not a peep from him yet.

People have these things....called a life...sometimes that means they don't check in.


Either that or all this nonsense you keep saying about him has made him decide to give you a wide berth for a while.......
 

minasoliman

Stratopedarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
20,198
Reaction score
8
Points
38
Location
NJ
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Coptic
Mor Ephrem said:
Maybe he's been eaten.
I wonder if your avatar had something to do with it ;)
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,010
Reaction score
358
Points
83
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
DeniseDenise said:
Seraffa said:
nothing said:
orthonorm has been banned, can't you all be happy for a change? Sheesh. Leaving before the party gets started Severian!
Severian is gone.  >>>>>>Where is Alpo<<<<< Not a peep from him yet.

People have these things....called a life...sometimes that means they don't check in.


Either that or all this nonsense you keep saying about him has made him decide to give you a wide berth for a while.......
What a repugnant idea!

*Flexes posts per day count*
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,863
Reaction score
86
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
TheTrisagion said:
DeniseDenise said:
Seraffa said:
nothing said:
orthonorm has been banned, can't you all be happy for a change? Sheesh. Leaving before the party gets started Severian!
Severian is gone.  >>>>>>Where is Alpo<<<<< Not a peep from him yet.

People have these things....called a life...sometimes that means they don't check in.


Either that or all this nonsense you keep saying about him has made him decide to give you a wide berth for a while.......
What a repugnant idea!

*Flexes posts per day count*

you do realise i said people.


clearly you are not 'people' then.....still fine for you to post... :-*
 
Top