Clemente said:
biro said:
theistgal said:
Clemente said:
biro said:
I guess Orthodox Christians only approach in a state of perfection, or else they don't go. Because they are better than those durn RCCers, and they never tell a lie. Also, by far most of the Orthodox jurisdictions do
not insist on one Confession per Communion, but don't let a little thing like accuracy stop you.
I guess Roman Catholics only use sarcasm when approaching legitimate, troubling concerns about their church's praxis, or else they don't go there.
I guess this thread is headed to a smarmy place ...
Too late.
He can't possibly know about all the Roman and Eastern Catholics and the state in which they approach Communion. But he's going to bruit about this snide attitude that they must all be doing it wrong.
And people wonder why I failed in two churches and why I don't think I have any kind of church home anymore. Why it's been so depressing the last few years...
But he won't change, and that's okay. 'Cause he's Orthodox, that's why.
Instead of considering my legitimate concerns, you have chosen to shoot the messenger with sarcasm and flail him with fallacies. That is a pity.
You are also evidently not reading this thread very carefully, because I have never said that "all" RCs approach communion improperly. The "I cannot generalise because I do not know a billion Roman Catholics" argument has been tried by another poster as well. I have already exempted Eastern Catholics and clearly the video here is of a Latin mass. If knowing all Roman Catholics is your necessary condition for making observations about RC praxis, we might as well just shut down this section of OC.net. Then, amazingly, you violate your own rule against generalisation by generalising about me--"he won't change"--and you do not know me! You are just stifling discussion that apparently doesn't suit you and airing your otherwise frustration.
I do hope you find a spiritual home but your current homelessness is not my fault.
Again, I am married to an Opus Dei RC and have attend RC mass fortnightly for a decade. Yes, I have a sufficient sample size to make some observations: I have observed Protestant friends and non-churchgoing RCs take communion about 50 times. Clearly these are not confessing frequently. Is my experience unique?
You may choose to ignore or reject my observations, but clearly the RC "honour system" in approaching the chalice makes my observations plausible. Can you at least recognise the plausibility of communing improperly in the RC church? I am not the only person who has observed this; indeed I have heard numerous RCs lament that the sacrament of confession has fallen into desuetude.
So, having attended roughly 260 Masses (out of how many that are celebrated in Spain every day?) you've observed Protestant friends and non-churchgoing RC's (also your friends?) commune about 50 times? If they were your friends why did you or your wife not gently inquire of them why they were doing this and inform them of Church policy? I have done so with friends of mine who aren't Catholic and were about to approach for Communion. If they were not your friends, how do you know that they were not in a state to approach for Communion? Of all the Catholics in Spain or elsewhere that are not your friends or acquaintances, how can you possibly know how often the go to the Sacrament of Confession?
While Spain is certainly considered a Catholic country, your "sample" may actually be smaller than you think:
Today, there are 90% of Spaniards are baptized as Roman Catholics, but fewer than 3/4ths of the population identify themselves as Roman Catholic. Of those who regard themselves as Catholic, 50% are non-practicing.
http://blogs.longwood.edu/spain2011/2011/06/02/the-not-so-catholic-spain/
Sad, isn't it?
Btw, Spain has a population of about 47 million, making the non-practicing number of Catholics, according to the above figures, roughly 16 million, out of a total world population of Catholics of about 1 billion (and yes, I do realize that that number probably includes people who are non-practicing). How many people attended the approx. 260 Masses you happened to attend? See what I'm getting at?
Are there people who approach the chalice in Catholic churches who shouldn't? Yes. Does anyone know how many do so and how often? I seriously doubt it. Does it happen more in some countries (like Spain) than others? Quite likely. Is it to be taken lightly? Definitely not! Is there a practical solution that can be implemented universally and with relative ease? I don't know.
Does can anyone know how often any given population of Catholics goes to confession? I seriously doubt that, too.
So, yes, there's a problem. The extent of it actually is, I would contend, almost impossible to know.