Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed

Poppy

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Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)
 

Asteriktos

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Is it that these things cannot be investigated, or is it just that they shouldn't be?
 

Poppy

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Asteriktos said:
Is it that these things cannot be investigated, or is it just that they shouldn't be?
I posted should all over the op.

But, can not, must not, should not, will not, would not, all work for me.
 

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Cognomen said:
Poppy, why are you here?
I have been here a long time, before I was reverted. If you actual read my posts you would know the answer to that. I'm not repeating it every time some lazyass asks me.

And it's not like I am interrupting some amazing thread discussions on oc is it? Like really! have you looked at most of the new threads on here? Hardly blow you away uh?
 Poppy,

You should know better than throwing ad hominems on people.  You started this thread a bit "preachy", and being that you're non-Orthodox, what do you expect people to reply?  Perhaps, you should start with, "Can we discuss something that we might agree upon?  What do you think of this statement..."  Then you'll get people's non-suspicions and respect.

Since you have been warned before in the past using ad hominems for 14 days back in 2011, I am going to give you a 30-day warning.

God bless.

Mina
 

Asteriktos

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Is the following an example of something we cannot/should not discuss?

"Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life."
 

dzheremi

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Is it already Islamic Neophyte Declarative Statement o' clock, or is there a question or point of discussion here that I'm missing? ???
 

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What constitute as 'common things'?
Is it the choice of speech? If so, I don't believe any language on Earth is suited to describe any divine subject without bringing it down to a human level. You can never adequately explain things, perhaps. But it's not blatantly disrespectful, to me.
Or is it the intentions behind the person 'pulling the ideas apart'?
I think humans are inquisitive beings, we're always going to be cynical and sceptical and discuss things as important as our religious beliefs. Whether or not we do this in an apparently flippant fashion isn't important imo, unless our intentions are disrespect. I think that it's a good thing, questioning and discussing things of a divine nature. By trying to contemplate and understand our beliefs more, we can perhaps have a greater conviction in them, even if as humans we are never able to fully understand them.
 

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Asteriktos said:
Is the following an example of something we cannot/should not discuss?

"Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life."
That is a fact agreed upon by both of our religions. That All Mighty is the only source and resource who sustains life. Armen.

If the fact is accepted and discussion is from gratitude then sure. I'm talking about between people of faith here, not dawah or something. That's different, but even then there is a line that can't/shouldn't be crossed. You present the facts and then let the person chew on them as they wish. Some things are not up for discussion.
 

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dzheremi said:
Is it already Islamic Neophyte Declarative Statement o' clock, or is there a question or point of discussion here that I'm missing? ???
Yea, you're missing the gene that makes you funny or original.
 

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Poppy said:
Asteriktos said:
Is the following an example of something we cannot/should not discuss?

"Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life."
That is a fact agreed upon by both of our religions. That All Mighty is the only source and resource who sustains life. Armen.

If the fact is accepted and discussion is from gratitude then sure. I'm talking about between people of faith here, not dawah or something. That's different, but even then there is a line that can't/shouldn't be crossed. You present the facts and then let the person chew on them as they wish. Some things are not up for discussion.
Poppy, I am praying for your conversion back to Holy Orthodoxy.

Yes, it is true that some of us here are neither respectful of each other nor of the Divine Godhead. We are all sinners in need of God's mercy. Lord have mercy.

I have known some Roman Catholic seminarians who studied metaphysics and in their attempt to understand God, they dissected the Godhead until they began to doubt and then eventually deny His very existence. They and their scholastic teachers are to be pitied, for ultimnately, they will have to face God at the Last Judgment.
 

Ansgar

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I say this with all possible respect:

If we should just accept "the nature ad attributes of Allah", wouldn't that make us muslims? Therefore, since we are christians, could you even expect us to do anything else than question these things?
 

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Mamizous said:
What constitute as 'common things'?
Is it the choice of speech? If so, I don't believe any language on Earth is suited to describe any divine subject without bringing it down to a human level. You can never adequately explain things, perhaps. But it's not blatantly disrespectful, to me.
Or is it the intentions behind the person 'pulling the ideas apart'?
I think humans are inquisitive beings, we're always going to be cynical and sceptical and discuss things as important as our religious beliefs. Whether or not we do this in an apparently flippant fashion isn't important imo, unless our intentions are disrespect. I think that it's a good thing, questioning and discussing things of a divine nature. By trying to contemplate and understand our beliefs more, we can perhaps have a greater conviction in them, even if as humans we are never able to fully understand them.
Neither really, although they are both important generally when discussing about The All Mighty.

It's the fact that some things should just be left alone. Either accepted or rejected but left. Kind of like the picture of a baby in the womb, they do not fascinate me or give me joy to see such secrets. They make me want to look away, like I am viewing an image of something All Mighty Allah does not want me to witness or our bellies would have friken windows on them! Even the bible says it is a secret place.

Like the transubstantiation (I know you don't call it that or disagree with that premise but for the sake of another name) if I believed that, I would not even discuss it, as some Orthodox don't, which I total respect.
 

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Maria said:
Poppy said:
Asteriktos said:
Is the following an example of something we cannot/should not discuss?

"Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life."
That is a fact agreed upon by both of our religions. That All Mighty is the only source and resource who sustains life. Armen.

If the fact is accepted and discussion is from gratitude then sure. I'm talking about between people of faith here, not dawah or something. That's different, but even then there is a line that can't/shouldn't be crossed. You present the facts and then let the person chew on them as they wish. Some things are not up for discussion.
Poppy, I am praying for your conversion back to Holy Orthodoxy.

Yes, it is true that some of us here are neither respectful of each other nor of the Divine Godhead. We are all sinners in need of God's mercy. Lord have mercy.

I have known some Roman Catholic seminarians who studied metaphysics and in their attempt to understand God, they dissected the Godhead until they began to doubt and then eventually deny His very existence. They and their scholastic teachers are to be pitied, for ultimnately, they will have to face God at the Last Judgment.
You make a rli good point!
 

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Poppy said:
Mamizous said:
What constitute as 'common things'?
Is it the choice of speech? If so, I don't believe any language on Earth is suited to describe any divine subject without bringing it down to a human level. You can never adequately explain things, perhaps. But it's not blatantly disrespectful, to me.
Or is it the intentions behind the person 'pulling the ideas apart'?
I think humans are inquisitive beings, we're always going to be cynical and sceptical and discuss things as important as our religious beliefs. Whether or not we do this in an apparently flippant fashion isn't important imo, unless our intentions are disrespect. I think that it's a good thing, questioning and discussing things of a divine nature. By trying to contemplate and understand our beliefs more, we can perhaps have a greater conviction in them, even if as humans we are never able to fully understand them.
Neither really, although they are both important generally when discussing about The All Mighty.

It's the fact that some things should just be left alone. Either accepted or rejected but left. Kind of like the picture of a baby in the womb, they do not fascinate me or give me joy to see such secrets. They make me want to look away, like I am viewing an image of something All Mighty Allah does not want me to witness or our bellies would have friken windows on them! Even the bible says it is a secret place.

Like the transubstantiation (I know you don't call it that or disagree with that premise but for the sake of another name) if I believed that, I would not even discuss it, as some Orthodox don't, which I total respect.
I don't think some things 'should' inherently be left alone... Maybe if you tread into them, the results will be negative, and I think that yes, things such as transubstantiation cannot really be understood. I don't think it's the discussion of the ideas that should not be done, more than you shouldn't make bold conclusions based on what you think you know. Is it harmful to discuss ideas that we can't really understand? Do I consider it somewhat disrespectful to discuss it? Eh... possibly. But that's not what I'm talking about. For example, a lot of people question and pick apart their own beliefs, and then denounce their religion, because they believe they understand. But I think that the negative consequences aren't a result of the discussion of the 'taboo' topic, more that the person thinks they can understand what they cannot. I don't expect us to ever think we can understand many divine topics, and I think it's disrespectful and uncalled for to assume that you do. But I don't see any harm in discussion with respect, or even 'pulling apart' ideas in a more passive way, provided you don't assume you know better than you obviously do.
 

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Poppy said:
Cognomen said:
Poppy, why are you here?
I have been here a long time, before I was reverted. If you actual read my posts you would know the answer to that. I'm not repeating it every time some lazyass asks me.

And it's not like I am interrupting some amazing thread discussions on oc is it? Like really! have you looked at most of the new threads on here? Hardly blow you away uh?
I have read your posts, and you frequently dodge that question, as you have now.  If you would read my replies to your previous posts, you would know that.

And I would appreciate it if you did not insinuate that I was lazy.

I ask again, why are you here?  I have my suspicions, but I would rather hear why you think you are here.

If you're just here to lecture us on how we should do things, bring us to the "straight path," or show off your awesome new Arab terms, then I'll mind my own business and skip your threads.  But I happen to know a good bit about Islam, albeit not the extremely narrow version you have chosen to be exposed to, and I generally find topics you've brought up interesting.  

But if you would like to be defensive and hostile while illuminating us with your wisdom on this Orthodox Christian board, expect some pushback.  
 

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Poppy said:
Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)
Can we also discuss Allah's daughter Allat?

Why are you Muslims so misogynist? You worship Allah (the male supreme deity of Meccan polytheism), but deny his daughters. Why is that?  ???
 

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Poppy said:
Maria said:
Poppy said:
Asteriktos said:
Is the following an example of something we cannot/should not discuss?

"Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life."
That is a fact agreed upon by both of our religions. That All Mighty is the only source and resource who sustains life. Armen.

If the fact is accepted and discussion is from gratitude then sure. I'm talking about between people of faith here, not dawah or something. That's different, but even then there is a line that can't/shouldn't be crossed. You present the facts and then let the person chew on them as they wish. Some things are not up for discussion.
Poppy, I am praying for your conversion back to Holy Orthodoxy.

Yes, it is true that some of us here are neither respectful of each other nor of the Divine Godhead. We are all sinners in need of God's mercy. Lord have mercy.

I have known some Roman Catholic seminarians who studied metaphysics and in their attempt to understand God, they dissected the Godhead until they began to doubt and then eventually deny His very existence. They and their scholastic teachers are to be pitied, for ultimnately, they will have to face God at the Last Judgment.
You make a rli good point!
Except that their decision is not a result of their 'dissection', more like a result of their own overestimation of their understanding and reasoning skills.
 

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Ansgar said:
I say this with all possible respect:

If we should just accept "the nature ad attributes of Allah", wouldn't that make us muslims? Therefore, since we are christians, could you even expect us to do anything else than question these things?
I'm not talking about dawah (testifying to another of your religion for the purpose of their conversion). I'm referring to you accepting what your religion teaches and me mine, in the aspects regarding the nature of The All Mighty.
 

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Poppy said:
dzheremi said:
Is it already Islamic Neophyte Declarative Statement o' clock, or is there a question or point of discussion here that I'm missing? ???
Yea, you're missing the gene that makes you funny or original.
And you're missing even the minimal amount of smarts it takes to not fall for any hoary old heresies repackaged by an illiterate paedophile and sold to you on the strength of its exotic allure by virtue of it being conveyed in a language you don't understand via a series of conveniently-timed "revelations" from a supposed angel that nobody since has ever been allowed to question.

Nyeh nyeh nyeh.

There are worse things than not being funny, and your "reversion" is a prime example of one.
 

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Theophilos78 said:
Poppy said:
Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)
Can we also discuss Allah's daughter Allat?

Why are you Muslims so misogynist? You worship Allah (the male supreme deity of Meccan polytheism), but deny his daughters. Why is that?  ???
Off topic for this thread.
 

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dzheremi said:
Poppy said:
dzheremi said:
Is it already Islamic Neophyte Declarative Statement o' clock, or is there a question or point of discussion here that I'm missing? ???
Yea, you're missing the gene that makes you funny or original.
And you're missing even the minimal amount of smarts it takes to not fall for any hoary old heresies repackaged by an illiterate paedophile and sold to you on the strength of its exotic allure by virtue of it being conveyed in a language you don't understand via a series of conveniently-timed "revelations" from a supposed angel that nobody since has ever been allowed to question.

Nyeh nyeh nyeh.

There are worse things than not being funny, and your "reversion" is a prime example of one.
"exotic allure" aka projection, on your part.

 

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Poppy said:
Nope. Feel free to start a thread. Just not this one.
Then please do us a favour and tell us what this thread is or should be about... You could give a list of the topics that you think should not be discussed about Allah/Hubal..
 

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Theophilos78 said:
Poppy said:
Nope. Feel free to start a thread. Just not this one.
Then please do us a favour and tell us what this thread is or should be about... You could give a list of the topics that you think should not be discussed about Allah/Hubal..
Since this would probably be open to opinion, isn't it fair to say that there aren't any subjects that inherently shouldn't be discussed?
 

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Theophilos78 said:
Poppy said:
Nope. Feel free to start a thread. Just not this one.
Then please do us a favour and tell us what this thread is or should be about... You could give a list of the topics that you think should not be discussed about Allah/Hubal..
To her credit, she has already explained that she didn't mean to refer specifically to Allah. I might be wrong, but I think she made the thread in order to make a point.
 

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I remember a conference held in Pakistan on "Things Known to Allah Alone."  The more intelligent asked what they would talk about, seeing that the conference they were holding was on things by definition they knew nothing about.
 

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Αριστοκλής said:
Theophilos78 said:
Poppy said:
Off topic for this thread.
That means it is one of the topics that should not be discussed about Allah.  ;D
Touche! Well done.
I did wonder if the original comment was a 'trap' to lure OP into the 'off topic' reply.
 

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Poppy said:
dzheremi said:
Poppy said:
dzheremi said:
Is it already Islamic Neophyte Declarative Statement o' clock, or is there a question or point of discussion here that I'm missing? ???
Yea, you're missing the gene that makes you funny or original.
And you're missing even the minimal amount of smarts it takes to not fall for any hoary old heresies repackaged by an illiterate paedophile and sold to you on the strength of its exotic allure by virtue of it being conveyed in a language you don't understand via a series of conveniently-timed "revelations" from a supposed angel that nobody since has ever been allowed to question.

Nyeh nyeh nyeh.

There are worse things than not being funny, and your "reversion" is a prime example of one.
"exotic allure" aka projection, on your part.
Is it? Tells us again what this "SWT" business is all about with reference to your "Allah"...since this thread still has no explicit point...  ::)
 

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ialmisry said:
I remember a conference held in Pakistan on "Things Known to Allah Alone."  The more intelligent asked what they would talk about, seeing that the conference they were holding was on things by definition they knew nothing about.
:D  :D :D



 

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I was going to make a thread on some impressions I've gathered from Islam. Seeing jeremy's posts and theos' reminds me why it would be a waste of time.

 

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Ansgar said:
To her credit, she has already explained that she didn't mean to refer specifically to Allah.
That means her intentions do not match her actions.  ::)
 

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Theophilos78 said:
ialmisry said:
I remember a conference held in Pakistan on "Things Known to Allah Alone."  The more intelligent asked what they would talk about, seeing that the conference they were holding was on things by definition they knew nothing about.
:D  :D :D
You laugh and show your own ignorance of the history of epistemology or even a speech famously made by Rumsfeld.
 

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orthonorm said:
You laugh and show your own ignorance of the history of epistemology or even a speech famously made by Rumsfeld.
Have mercy on me, an ignorant poster, and enlighten me with your amazing wisdom!  :laugh:
 

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Theophilos78 said:
Ansgar said:
To her credit, she has already explained that she didn't mean to refer specifically to Allah.
That means her intentions do not match her actions.  ::)
I can't say for sure, but even if it is so, is that not a very common phenomenon? I honestly don't think it deserves an eye-rolling. She doesn't seem to have had any ill intentions with making this thread.
 

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orthonorm said:
I was going to make a thread on some impressions I've gathered from Islam. Seeing jeremy's posts and theos' reminds me why it would be a waste of time.
And to think just a few weeks ago I posted what you yourself wrote should be some kind of template for Islamic-Christian discussion around here. So it's not like I don't know how to do it, by your own admission, but what is to be done with an opening post that is a declarative statement and and a thread poster who writes that other threads are boring, so why not post this Islamic claptrap with no context or purpose whatsoever?

Epistemology, my 'Aas...this thread is about nothing, which is fitting given its opening quotation.
 

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Theophilos78 said:
Poppy said:
Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)
Can we also discuss Allah's daughter Allat?

Why are you Muslims so misogynist? You worship Allah (the male supreme deity of Meccan polytheism), but deny his daughters. Why is that?  ???
Why can't Allah have a "daughter"?

Yahweh had a Son.

Oh no, they're the same person.

Huh? ???

(Sorry, the Trinity always been a tough one for me  ;))
 

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Poppy said:
Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)
If we merely contemplate at God and His attributes, we treat Him like a concept, not like a God we have a relationship with.  There's a reason why we can recognize attributes in God.
 
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