SSPX expels Bishop Williamson

Charles Martel

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Papist said:
choy said:
I don't know many SSPX followers but the few I know are very loyal to Bishop Williamson.  Whatever faction reintegrates with the RC, for sure there still would be a hardline SSPX faction that would remain outside the RC.  And I think this time the schism will be formal.
And the Williamson faction will slip into irrelevance.
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
 

Charles Martel

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Apotheoun said:
choy said:
Defending it from who though?
The majority of people in the SSPX would probably say from the innovations of the modern Roman Church.

choy said:
The Post Vatican II Popes?
I would say that to answer that question in the affirmative probably represents the viewpoint of the majority of people in the SSPX.

choy said:
Because that is the Latin Tradition, complete submission and adherance to the decrees of the Pope.
That is one way of reading the Latin tradition, but it is not the only way of doing so, as the SSPX - by their refusal to assent to the innovations promoted at Vatican II - have demonstrated.

choy said:
So it is kind of an oxymoron to rebel against the Pope and yet profess the Latin faith.

That is a modern interpretation of the situation.  But blind obedience
has never been extolled as a virtue in the Roman Church.

Blind Obedience?
You mean False Obedience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXoRd9UQJw
 

PJ

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choy said:
Peter J said:
choy said:
Defending it from who though?  The Post Vatican II Popes?  Because that is the Latin Tradition, complete submission and adherance to the decrees of the Pope.  So it is kind of an oxymoron to rebel against the Pope and yet profess the Latin faith.
I would say that's a Latin tradition, not "the Latin tradition".
Well, it is THE tradition since Vatican I.
choy said:
But RCs are very Pope-centric. 
To an extent, yes; but I think it is also true that those who aren't tend to keep their heads down.
 

choy

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Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
 

choy

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Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
 

Maria

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choy said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
moi aussi.
 

PJ

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Maria said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
moi aussi.
And me. I have found that traditionalists are very good at getting me to see the problems with neo-conservative Catholicism (e.g. Peter W. Miller's A Brief Defense of Traditionalism, but not as good with respective to offering an alternative.
 

choy

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Peter J said:
And me. I have found that traditionalists are very good at getting me to see the problems with neo-conservative Catholicism (e.g. Peter W. Miller's A Brief Defense of Traditionalism, but not as good with respective to offering an alternative.
I believe they are the same problem packaged differently.  They have the externals that are appealing to those disenfranchised by the modernization of the Roman Church, but their spirituality is just as bad.  I haven't met an SSPXer who has argued well for Traditionalism (maybe the book you linked does, I don't know).  Every rhetoric and polemic is out of hubris.  You wouldn't hear anything but "we're right, you're wrong."  I've even had one ultra trad tell me that Orthodox are heretic schismatics whose god is Satan, and that Eastern Catholics are nothing more than half-way houses that proves how wrong the modern ecumenist mindset is.
 

Charles Martel

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choy said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
Sooo, what were you then, a Modernist? Are you still? You say you never met someone in Tradition to make you even think about it yet it is this very tradition that caused you to wonder about the validity of Church teachings and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics. All this while condemning a great man like Bishop Williamson who now stands alone in resisting the errors in Rome.

Strange days indeed.
 

Papist

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Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
Sooo, what were you then, a Modernist? Are you still? You say you never met someone in Tradition to make you even think about it yet it is this very tradition that caused you to wonder about the validity of Church teachings and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics. All this while condemning a great man like Bishop Williamson who now stands alone in resisting the errors in Rome.

Strange days indeed.
Oh geesh, it's Bishop Williamson against the world. rrrrrrrrrrright.  ::)
 

Alpo

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Martel, why don't you come home inside? It must be terribly lonely out there to be the lone last proper Christian. We have cozy beards and baklava!
 

Cyrillic

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Charles Martel said:
and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics.
An SSPX supporter calling someone else a schismatic? The irony!


PS: it was the west which schismed from the east, not the other way around.
 

Charles Martel

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Alpo said:
Martel, why don't you come home inside? It must be terribly lonely out there to be the lone last proper Christian. We have cozy beards and baklava!
Baklava most defintely, but you can keep those scruffy beards.  ;D

Thanks for the offer anyway.  ;)
 

Charles Martel

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Papist said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
choy said:
Charles Martel said:
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.
True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.
Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.
Sooo, what were you then, a Modernist? Are you still? You say you never met someone in Tradition to make you even think about it yet it is this very tradition that caused you to wonder about the validity of Church teachings and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics. All this while condemning a great man like Bishop Williamson who now stands alone in resisting the errors in Rome

Strange days indeed.
Oh geesh, it's Bishop Williamson against the world. rrrrrrrrrrright.  ::)
Not really, but mostly a few fanatical Modernists and Judaizers in and out of the Vatican.

I'm sure the rest of the world would support +Williamson given the facts.
 

Charles Martel

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Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics.
An SSPX supporter calling someone else a schismatic? The irony!


PS: it was the west which schismed from the east, not the other way around.
Um, yea, sure they did, if you say so.

And it was post VII Rome that parted with Tradition, not the other way around.
 

choy

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Charles Martel said:
Sooo, what were you then, a Modernist? Are you still? You say you never met someone in Tradition to make you even think about it yet it is this very tradition that caused you to wonder about the validity of Church teachings and now you are seeking answers from Eastern schismatics. All this while condemning a great man like Bishop Williamson who now stands alone in resisting the errors in Rome.

Strange days indeed.
You can say I am a true Traditionalist.  I am looking for something more traditional than Trent, which is only 500 years ago.  I think that is one of the biggest holes of Traditional Roman Catholicism and the SSPX, to claim tradition and yet only go as far back as 500 years ago.  It is as if the Church never existed in the First Millennium.  Something that is very clear when you look at Orthodoxy.
 

PJ

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Charles Martel said:
All this while condemning a great man like Bishop Williamson who now stands alone in resisting the errors in Rome.
Hmmm, I think you just inadvertently disclosed your real identity to us.
 

Cyrillic

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Charles Martel said:
And it was post VII Rome that parted with Tradition, not the other way around.
Wrong. It was post-1014 AD Rome which parted with Tradition.
 

choy

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Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
And it was post VII Rome that parted with Tradition, not the other way around.
Wrong. It was post-1014 AD Rome which parted with Tradition.
Ooohhh burn!
 
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