- Jan 28, 2005
- Reaction score
But Pope John VIII accepted our Constantinople IV (which Orthodox are quite at liberty to consider the 8th Ecumenical) condemnation of filioque and all at the time, so to claim that this had been forgotten a couple of centuries later when the prior robber council was named ecumenical by the post-Schism Roman church seems rather convenient - hence my reference to an Orwellian re-writing of history.Peter J said:My impression is that "the Latins" of the 15th century were genuinely surprised to learn that "the Greeks" counted 7 ecumenical councils and not 8. It's possible I'm wrong about that, but in any case, we can be sure that they didn't have a perfect knowledge of the events in question, so I wouldn't say that they were "clearly signifying" anything by calling Constantinople IV "the 8th ecumenical council". (In fact, I believe the way it came up at Florence is that "the Latins" said something like: We don't have a copy of the 8th ecumenical council. Can you give us one?)jmbejdl said:I'd have said that had already been done quite effectively when the robber council that deposed St. Photios was designated as the Eighth Ecumenical by Rome in the 12th century. Ignoring the council of 879 that reinstated St. Photios, annulled the previous and condemned the filioque in favour of the council of 869, when the latter had been universally accepted for over 200 years, was clearly signifying that we were out (not to mention re-writing RC history in an almost Orwellian manner).Peter J said:Nowadays it is taken for granted that us calling a council "Ecumenical" has nothing to do with you Eastern Orthodox (or "the Greeks" as they would have said back then) accepting or rejecting it; but that was a novelty back when Florence became the "9th Ecumenical Council" (notwithstanding the disagreement that already existence concerning the designation of the "8th Ecumenical Council", Constantinople IV). Essentially, it signified that the Eastern Orthodox were out.Michał Kalina said:Why would it be the factor? Why haven't accepted any of your Ecumenical Councils after the 7th one.Peter J said:This was set in stone by the naming of Florence as an ecumenical council (initially as # 9, later re-designated as # 17) despite the clear Orthodox rejection of it.