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SSPX expels Bishop Williamson

Cavaradossi

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orthonorm said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

Do you having anything to point us toward other than a photo?
It's a picture of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, who offered to be starved in place of another prisoner. He was notable for his belief that the Virgin Mary is the quasi-incarnation of the Holy Spirit.
 

orthonorm

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Cavaradossi said:
orthonorm said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

Do you having anything to point us toward other than a photo?
It's a picture of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, who offered to be starved in place of another prisoner. He was notable for his belief that the Virgin Mary is the quasi-incarnation of the Holy Spirit.
Wow. This postage stamp doesn't belong in the garbage icon section:

 

Charles Martel

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orthonorm said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

Do you having anything to point us toward other than a photo?
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=370
 

mike

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Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

If Kolbe was a martyr in Auschwitz how could that happen? Hitler accordingly to you was suh a great buddy for Christians and Holocaust never happened. I am confused.
 

Charles Martel

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Don't decide which. From the Fathers till today, when it comes to the the Jews, good or otherwise, Christians for the most part can't read scripture better than I could at age eight.
You just lost all credibility with that statement. Oh btw, does this include Jewish Christians? Ockham's razor in effect.

Read scripture in its entirety, it's not hard.
I have, read the bible front to back multiple times. No big deal.

And FWIW, I don't "worship" sacred scripture like the Protestants or Evangelicals. The Bible is not to me what the Quran is to Moslems.

Then you'll be able to properly understand how to determine that radical antisemitism among your fellow Christians when it rears its head.
Or possibly the  radical "anti-goyism" coming from the Talmud or the rabbi's in Judaism.

BTW, "antisemitism" in theory and context the way you and some others present it, basically the hatred of the Jewish people specifically because of their race or DNA is NOT compatible anywhere in Christianity. I see nowhere where that is presnted here or anywhere else, where "christians" rear their ugly "antisemitic" head.
 
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I don't think it's wise to doubt that Hitler was not a friend of Christians, least we forget the Hitler Catholic Fransician pupets in Croatia genocde against our Serbian Orthodox brothers, and sisters.  At the same token while Hitler was evil, no doubt about that, one must remember he was a bulwark against the Joseph Stalin who crimes in body count  terms was worse than Hitler. The worst mistake we made was allowing the Soviet Union to get as far they did in Eastern, and Central Europe, and giving lend ease aid to the Russians, for the sake of the people in Orthodox, and Catholic Eastern/Central Europe it was proabably best if the USSR and Nazi Germany have taken each other out, destablizing both sides, thus preventing Atheist Communism spreading around the globe.
 

Charles Martel

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orthonorm said:
Cavaradossi said:
orthonorm said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

Do you having anything to point us toward other than a photo?
It's a picture of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, who offered to be starved in place of another prisoner. He was notable for his belief that the Virgin Mary is the quasi-incarnation of the Holy Spirit.
Wow. This postage stamp doesn't belong in the garbage icon section:

Because it's not an icon. It's a stamp.
 

Charles Martel

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mike said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

If Kolbe was a martyr in Auschwitz how could that happen? Hitler accordingly to you was suh a great buddy for Christians and Holocaust never happened. I am confused.
It's called reading comprehension there mikey.

Go back and reread my posts.
 

Rohzek

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seekeroftruth777 said:
I don't think it's wise to doubt that Hitler was not a friend of Christians, least we forget the Hitler Catholic Fransician pupets in Croatia genocde against our Serbian Orthodox brothers, and sisters.  At the same token while Hitler was evil, no doubt about that, one must remember he was a bulwark against the Joseph Stalin who crimes in body count  terms was worse than Hitler. The worst mistake we made was allowing the Soviet Union to get as far they did in Eastern, and Central Europe, and giving lend ease aid to the Russians, for the sake of the people in Orthodox, and Catholic Eastern/Central Europe it was proabably best if the USSR and Nazi Germany have taken each other out, destablizing both sides, thus preventing Atheist Communism spreading around the globe.
Due to the limited amount of nukes we had, I'm pretty sure that if we took Patton's advice, the Soviets would have driven the Brits and the Americans into the Atlantic, and all of Europe would have then been commie. And if it wasn't for Lend Lease, then there would have been no formidable Eastern Front, and D-Day most certainly would have failed just like Operation Market Garden. In short, the Russians would have lost WW2 just like they did WW1 to the Germans.
 

stella1990

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Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

That's true, M. Kolbe was labeled a vicious polish antisemite in 1930's and also an anti masonic conspiracy theorist, by his enemies.
 

mike

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stella1990 said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

That's true, M. Kolbe was labeled a vicious polish antisemite in 1930's and also an anti masonic conspiracy theorist, by his enemies.
It's enough to read his writings. There is a chance he had a change of heart after being arrested by the Germans but he hadn't be a nice guy prior to thatt.
 

stella1990

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mike said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

If Kolbe was a martyr in Auschwitz how could that happen? Hitler accordingly to you was suh a great buddy for Christians and Holocaust never happened. I am confused.
One thing doesn't means the other.

M. Kolbe was very critical of jews as a lot of polish people pre and post Vatican the II. He NEVER said that jews were to be murdered!!!!!!!!...but he was critical towards sionism, jewish financial power and jews salvation, he said that jews needed to convert to save their souls... I dont know if he talked about connection between some jews and bolschevism but that was a common theory at that time not only for catholics also for eastern orthodox.

He was not a nazi. He viewed nazism as a pagan ideology , very anti christian and very damaging to humanity. So he was imprisoned for his anti nazi views.

In 1930's Europe you could be a christian, anti nazi and critical of jewish power and involvement in politics (by today standards...) and wasn't a confusing thing.

"Jewish-bolschevist-freemanson complot" theory was a common conspiracy theory among christians and non christians, catholics, protestant and orthodox at that time.

I'm not justifying Shoah's or jewish persecution, I'm only trying to talk about the historial facts of that time.
 

stella1990

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mike said:
stella1990 said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

That's true, M. Kolbe was labeled a vicious polish antisemite in 1930's and also an anti masonic conspiracy theorist, by his enemies.
It's enough to read his writings. There is a chance he had a change of heart after being arrested by the Germans but he hadn't be a nice guy prior to thatt.
Im no expert on his writings.
Im not qualified to say anything about his sainthood ...
I can only express historical facts... If you study 1930s Europe you will see that a lot of people had the same views of MK and not only the pagan and luciferian nazis ... and not only the catholics as you want to hear...

Im very critical of Ustase for example...but Im no blind person and I know that also protestans and orthodox had very disturbing views about jewry...
 

stella1990

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One thing that is very difficult (maybe impossible) is trying to establish historical facts wothout all people saying a lot of bad things and throwing stones.

Im sick to death of Bishop Williamson, I dont believe all jews are cursed, I believe there were big murders in WWII in both sides and I recognize there was a jewish Holocaust. But Im sure I will be labeled as a nazi , as an holocaust denialist .... or as judaizer, political correctness agent, History Channel viewer, and a lot of horrible things just because I didnt ally with any side of this discussion (basically Charles Martel and Mike's views).

I dont see all things as black and white...And Im not justifying murder , Im a christian and I cannot suport ANY murder... Im talking about other things...

 

mike

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stella1990 said:
One thing doesn't means the other.

M. Kolbe was very critical of jews as a lot of polish people pre and post Vatican the II. He NEVER said that jews were to be murdered!!!!!!!!...but he was critical towards sionism, jewish financial power and jews salvation, he said that jews needed to convert to save their souls... I dont know if he talked about connection between some jews and bolschevism but that was a common theory at that time not only for catholics also for eastern orthodox.

He was not a nazi. He viewed nazism as a pagan ideology , very anti christian and very damaging to humanity. So he was imprisoned for his anti nazi views.

In 1930's Europe you could be a christian, anti nazi and critical of jewish power and involvement in politics (by today standards...) and wasn't a confusing thing.

"Jewish-bolschevist-freemanson complot" theory was a common conspiracy theory among christians and non christians, catholics, protestant and orthodox at that time.

I'm not justifying Shoah's or jewish persecution, I'm only trying to talk about the historial facts of that time.
I am aware of that. Yet his antisemitic beliefs do not really make me feel sympathetic to him. The fact, in one of his articles he called the Orthodoxy as a "religion of Satan" IIRC does not ern my sympathy either.

stella1990 said:
I didnt ally with any side of this discussion (basically Charles Martel and Mike's views).
So what is the my view you do not agree with?
 

stella1990

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mike said:
stella1990 said:
One thing doesn't means the other.

M. Kolbe was very critical of jews as a lot of polish people pre and post Vatican the II. He NEVER said that jews were to be murdered!!!!!!!!...but he was critical towards sionism, jewish financial power and jews salvation, he said that jews needed to convert to save their souls... I dont know if he talked about connection between some jews and bolschevism but that was a common theory at that time not only for catholics also for eastern orthodox.

He was not a nazi. He viewed nazism as a pagan ideology , very anti christian and very damaging to humanity. So he was imprisoned for his anti nazi views.

In 1930's Europe you could be a christian, anti nazi and critical of jewish power and involvement in politics (by today standards...) and wasn't a confusing thing.

"Jewish-bolschevist-freemanson complot" theory was a common conspiracy theory among christians and non christians, catholics, protestant and orthodox at that time.

I'm not justifying Shoah's or jewish persecution, I'm only trying to talk about the historial facts of that time.
I am aware of that. Yet his antisemitic beliefs do not really make me feel sympathetic to him. The fact, in one of his articles he called the Orthodoxy as a "religion of Satan" IIRC does not ern my sympathy either.

stella1990 said:
I didnt ally with any side of this discussion (basically Charles Martel and Mike's views).
So what is the my view you do not agree with?
Hi


Well ... It's difficult for me to feel simpathy for him if he said that " Orthodoxy is a religion of Satan" because I love Orthodoxy even as I have not apostatized from Roman Catholicism yet...so I really agree with you relating to this...

As I previously said Im no expert on MK writings... I cannot speak properly about him regarding his antisemitic views ...I just can say what I stated previously: his views towards jews were common among christians in his time. And I have never read that he supported murder. Anyways: I differ from him because I dont have the pre vatican II views towards jews. I don't believe they are all cursed, guilty or responsible for Christ's murder...

Regarding to your views: if Charles Martel is so soft in his views towards Hitler, saying that he never apostatized (so he was a Catholic all time), sustaining a real Holocaust denialist view (Holocaust didn't happen, that's all jew's lies...), very pre Vatican the II view of jews (Jews as Synagogue of Satan, etc)... I guess you represent the opposite views...

And that's not bad: you have your right to say whatever you believe as does Charles Martel or myself.

The thing that I really don't like is being labeled an antisemite just because I feel free to analize the Holocaust regarding numbers and methods and I dont have to agree with Abe Foxman in all the  things he says or supports... I don't like "political correctness" if this means that I will not be able to question or think by myself.

I really believe there was an Holocaust but as in Armenian or Ukrainian genocides I feel free to examine and debate with other people regarding numbers and methods... really free. I would never deny jewish, armenian or ukrainian genocides but regarding to jewish one I feel pressured to think just as "ADL says ....if not you are a sick nazi bastard".

That's are the two sides of the spectrum regarding to jews that I see at this discussion... Maybe I'm wrong and you can say  that to me, of course.

(I feel trapped in the middle of the spectrum...)
 

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mike said:
stella1990 said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

That's true, M. Kolbe was labeled a vicious polish antisemite in 1930's and also an anti masonic conspiracy theorist, by his enemies.
It's enough to read his writings. There is a chance he had a change of heart after being arrested by the Germans but he hadn't be a nice guy prior to thatt.
I highly doubt it, SAINT Maximilian Kolbe never backed off from telling the Truth until the day he died.

And he died the death of a true martry, gave his life so another man may live. If that isn't the ultimate example of Christ, I don;t know what is.

And your attempt to slander this saintly man because of him being critical of Zionists and Freemasonry is downright despicable.

Talk about not being a nice guy.
 

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He was not a nazi. He viewed nazism as a pagan ideology , very anti christian and very damaging to humanity. So he was imprisoned for his anti nazi views.
I think you're wasting your breath stella.

mike knows this for a fact yet his blind  hatred of Catholicism skews his capability of rational thought.

I've never seen such seething hatred for such a man like St. MK.

totally irrational.
 

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Yet his antisemitic beliefs do not really make me feel sympathetic to him.
Prove he had "antisemitic" or knock it off.

Antisemitism is defined of hostility to Jews for the mere fact that they are of the Jewish race. I challenge you to prove one iota of this philosophy regarding St. MK. If not, stop your calumny. :mad:

The fact, in one of his articles he called the Orthodoxy as a "religion of Satan" IIRC does not ern my sympathy either.
Produce this article and in what context. Or, you have no credibility with this statement.

I am not going  sit here anymore and let you soil the memory of this greeat Catholic saint and martyr.

Start backing up your  bogus accusations.
 

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Charles Martel said:
mike said:
stella1990 said:
Charles Martel said:
mike said:
To deny the Holocaust is equally to deny of martyrdom of:

- Gregory (Peradze) of Warsaw
- Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague
- Mary (Skobtsova) of Paris and her companions Demetrius (Klepinin), George (Skobtsov) and Elijah (Fondaminsky)
- Alexander (Schmorell) of Munich
- George (Bogić) of Našice
- Ignatius (Bazyluk) of Jabłeczna
- Savva (Triajić) of Karlovac
- Raphael (Momcilović) of Šišatovac
- Peter (Zimonjić) of Dabar
- Vukašin (Mandrapa) of Klepci
- Plato (Jovanović) of Banja Luka
- Joannicius (Lipovac) of Montenegro
- Branko (Dobrosavljević) of Vejlun

and many other saints that died from the hand of Germans and their allies.
We can honor the martydom of those "saints" as well as all those who died for the Faith on both sides of that war without accepting the politically charged accusation of "denying" the offical line of the Holocaust.

Ironically, one of the greatest 20th century RC saints, who voluntarily gave his life for another man at Auschwitz was once accused of "antisemitism" for his work in some newspapers in which some of the content that was  anti-Zionist and anti-Masonic , does not tarnish his martydom in the least. Truly a great man indeed;

That's true, M. Kolbe was labeled a vicious polish antisemite in 1930's and also an anti masonic conspiracy theorist, by his enemies.
It's enough to read his writings. There is a chance he had a change of heart after being arrested by the Germans but he hadn't be a nice guy prior to thatt.
I highly doubt it, SAINT Maximilian Kolbe never backed off from telling the Truth until the day he died.

And he died the death of a true martry, gave his life so another man may live. If that isn't the ultimate example of Christ, I don;t know what is.

And your attempt to slander this saintly man because of him being critical of Zionists and Freemasonry is downright despicable.

Talk about not being a nice guy.
edit.

I meant martyr.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Prove he had "antisemitic" or knock it off.
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...]We will dejudaize Poland if with the help of Jezus and Mary we will protect ourselves and our environment from judo-masonic-neopaganic influence [...]
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...]I found myself in a carriage in the company of, among others, a Jew (a civilized one, without payots) [...]
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...] Rabbis [...] teach that Jews can steal or deceive Christians [...]
mike said:
The fact, in one of his articles he called the Orthodoxy as a "religion of Satan" IIRC does not ern my sympathy either.
Produce this article and in what context. Or, you have no credibility with this statement.
I made a mistake with this one (as I wrote I had not been sure), his words were "religion not started by Christ". I found where I used it in a discussion but I cannot find the original source. I remember having read it then.
 

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mike said:
Charles Martel said:
Prove he had "antisemitic" or knock it off.
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...]We will dejudaize Poland if with the help of Jezus and Mary we will protect ourselves and our environment from judo-masonic-neopaganic influence [...]
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...]I found myself in a carriage in the company of, among others, a Jew (a civilized one, without payots) [...]
http://www.niepokalanow.pl/pisma said:
[...] Rabbis [...] teach that Jews can steal or deceive Christians [...]
mike said:
The fact, in one of his articles he called the Orthodoxy as a "religion of Satan" IIRC does not ern my sympathy either.
Produce this article and in what context. Or, you have no credibility with this statement.
I made a mistake with this one (as I wrote I had not been sure), his words were "religion not started by Christ". I found where I used it in a discussion but I cannot find the original source. I remember having read it then.
I see nothing "antisemitic" (hostility to the Jewish race) in any of those links, only Kolbe speaking the reality of the Jewish-Masonic influence , the attempted coversions and the realities of the distorted teaching of the rabbis.

I don't know what your problem is with this greatly admired Catholic saint who was arrested for trying to harbor Jews and save their lives during the war and willingly gave his life for another man and died a horrible death in the process, but your attempts to paint him as some kind of "bigot" and "antisemite" is unwarranted and groundless, you need to stop with this insanity.

As I said before, your harboring of all this hatred for Catholicsim has clouded your capability for any kind of sound reasoning.

You can hate me all you want, I am nothing to a great man like St. M. Kolbe, and any other Catholic saint but you should never lump them in with any of the actions of some so-called "catholics" through the pages of history.

Another thing, I don't know if your Jewish, but you seem to be obsessed with "antisemitism" within the ranks of the Church and yet never question the integrity of the rabbis or any other of those who reject Christ. Are you really an Orthodox Christian? Do you really believe Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God?

I'm being totally honest here. I want to hear it from you personally or your suspect in my opnion.
 

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I see nothing "antisemitic" (hostility to the Jewish race) in any of those links, only Kolbe speaking the reality of the Jewish-Masonic influence
Charles 500 years ago: "I'm not "antisemitic" (hostile to the Jewish race), I just believe in speaking the reality of the Jewish kidnapping and cannibalism of Christian children."
 

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Volnutt said:
I see nothing "antisemitic" (hostility to the Jewish race) in any of those links, only Kolbe speaking the reality of the Jewish-Masonic influence
Charles 500 years ago: "I'm not "antisemitic" (hostile to the Jewish race), I just believe in speaking the reality of the Jewish kidnapping and cannibalism of Christian children."
Out of your mouth, not mine.

BTW, you aren't a Christian neither are you? What are you, are you a Jew too? What's with all this fantasy about Jewish  cannibalism and kidnapping? Are you saying this used to happen 500yrs ago? Is it still happening? what are you even talking about?

Do you believe that Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God? Time for you to come clean too.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Volnutt said:
I see nothing "antisemitic" (hostility to the Jewish race) in any of those links, only Kolbe speaking the reality of the Jewish-Masonic influence
Charles 500 years ago: "I'm not "antisemitic" (hostile to the Jewish race), I just believe in speaking the reality of the Jewish kidnapping and cannibalism of Christian children."
Out of your mouth, not mine.

BTW, you aren't a Christian neither are you? What are you, are you a Jew too? What's with all this fantasy about Jewish  cannibalism and kidnapping? Are you saying this used to happen 500yrs ago? Is it still happening? what are you even talking about?

Do you believe that Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God? Time for you to come clean too.
:laugh: Wow! A little paranoid, are we? The Mossad-Masons going through your garbage at night? I was comparing one hateful conspiracy theory with an even older one to point out silly and reductive your definition of antisemitism is.

And yes, I very much believe that Jesus is (not was. Are you a Resurrection denying Jew? ;)) the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
 

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Wow! A little paranoid, are we?
No, just seeing where you stand actually.

The Mossad-Masons going through your garbage at night?
They'll be dissappointed. but have at it.

I was comparing one hateful conspiracy theory with an even older one to point out silly and reductive your definition of antisemitism is.
I don't believe in conspiracy theories, things either happened or they didn't. and my defintion of antisemitism is spot on. It means one thing and one thing only, that you despise Jews because of their race, that's it.

But Jews are not above being questioned or beyond reproach. Only in their delusional Talmudic, anti-Christ teachings.

And yes, I very much believe that Jesus is (not was. Are you a Resurrection denying Jew? ;)) the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Good point. ;) And no, I'm not a Jew or reject Christ or his Ressurection.

OK, now  we have that cleared up.
 

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Charles Martel said:
I don't believe in conspiracy theories, things either happened or they didn't.
And yet you believe in the "Jewish-Masonic influence" ::)

Let me guess, you aren't a racist you just think blacks are lazy criminals, right?
 

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Charles Martel said:
...and my defintion of antisemitism is spot on. It means one thing and one thing only, that you despise Jews because of their race, that's it.
"One thing only?" One can hate a group because of their religion, as well. Just saying. 
 

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Charles Martel said:
Another thing, I don't know if your Jewish, but you seem to be obsessed with "antisemitism" within the ranks of the Church and yet never question the integrity of the rabbis or any other of those who reject Christ. Are you really an Orthodox Christian? Do you really believe Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God?
I'm not a member of the same religion as you, Charlie. I would be ashamed to be. That's what I can tell.
 

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And yet you believe in the "Jewish-Masonic influence" ::)
Like Jews and Freemasons never influenced anybody. ::)

Let me guess, you aren't a racist you just think blacks are lazy criminals, right?
What's "racism" have to do with sloth and criminality?

"One thing only?" One can hate a group because of their religion, as well. Just saying.
Semitism( as in Semites) is a RACE not a "religion". just saying.
 

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mike said:
Charles Martel said:
Another thing, I don't know if your Jewish, but you seem to be obsessed with "antisemitism" within the ranks of the Church and yet never question the integrity of the rabbis or any other of those who reject Christ. Are you really an Orthodox Christian? Do you really believe Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God?
I'm not a member of the same religion as you, Charlie. I would be ashamed to be. That's what I can tell.
So you're not a Christian. I get it.

And you don't believe that Jesus IS (thanks volnutt) the Christ, Son of the living God.

No problem, it's your choice mikey.
 

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Charles Martel said:
And yet you believe in the "Jewish-Masonic influence" ::)
Like Jews and Freemasons never influenced anybody. ::)
Not in the ways you mean- unless you also believe in chemtrails and that Ban Ki-Moon is a shapeshifting lizardman from Zeta Reticuli.

Charles Martel said:
Let me guess, you aren't a racist you just think blacks are lazy criminals, right?
What's "racism" have to do with sloth and criminality?
I don't know, you tell me. You're the one who believes that someone is in the Antichrist's mafia just because they have Jewish ancestry.
 

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Charles Martel said:
And not for nothing, but who are the Jews or anyone else to dictate to the Church who they can keep as Bishops or lift excommunications?
They don't.

You know who we really answer to.
 

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Not in the ways you mean- unless you also believe in chemtrails and that Ban Ki-Moon is a shapeshifting lizardman from Zeta Reticuli.
Misdirection., nice try.But  the synagogue has been actively invovlved in it's influence on leaders and govt's for the last two millenium, this is no secret. For example, why in God's name does every leader of the "free" world or presidential candidate have to don a beanie and grovel before the pagan wailing wall in Palestine in ordert to win the influence of the Jews?

Popes and patriarchs included;











I don't know, you tell me. You're the one who believes that someone is in the Antichrist's mafia just because they have Jewish ancestry.
Yea, where did I say that? Show me.

Btw, Judaism and the Talmud are biological-based concepts, not Christianity and the Church.

But they love to play the victim of everyone else's supposed "racism".

Chutzpah anyone?
 

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Peter J said:
Charles Martel said:
And not for nothing, but who are the Jews or anyone else to dictate to the Church who they can keep as Bishops or lift excommunications?
They don't.

You know who we really answer to.
Just when the pope was ready to lift the SSPX excommunications, including Willaimson, the wailing began.

Then the sacandal broke of this so-called "holacaust-denier" and he was effectively barred from being brought back into the fold in Rome and eventually osatracized by his own order as to avoid any suspicion of "anti-semitism" and their getting back into the good graces of the Vatican and the synagogue.

These guys call themselves men? It's pathetic really; ::)

Pope outrages Jews over Holocaust denier

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Jewish officials in Israel and abroad are outraged that Pope Benedict XVI has decided to lift the excommunication of a British bishop who denies that Jews were killed in Nazi gas chambers.

The decision by Pope Benedict XVI to welcome back the bishop has infuriated Jewish officials.
The decision by Pope Benedict XVI to welcome back the bishop has infuriated Jewish officials.

The pope's decree, issued Saturday, brings back into the Catholic Church's fold Bishop Richard Williamson and three other bishops who belong to the Society of Saint Pius X.

The liaison for Vatican-Jewish relations -- Cardinal Walter Kasper, head of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity -- said he was not consulted.

"It was a pope decision" he told CNN in a phone interview. "I have my opinions about it, but I do not wish to comment on a decision made by the pope."


http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/26/pope.holocaust.denial/index.html?iref=24hours
 

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Charles Martel said:
Not in the ways you mean- unless you also believe in chemtrails and that Ban Ki-Moon is a shapeshifting lizardman from Zeta Reticuli.
Misdirection., nice try.But  the synagogue has been actively invovlved in it's influence on leaders and govt's for the last two millenium, this is no secret. For example, why in God's name does every leader of the "free" world or presidential candidate have to don a beanie and grovel before the pagan wailing wall in Palestine in ordert to win the influence of the Jews?

Popes and patriarchs included;
Because we as Christians and Europeans have persecuted them for centuries (thousands of years if you count pre-Christian pagan antisemitism) culminating in one of the bloodiest mass slaughters in history and world leaders have decided that being nice to them for a change is the kind thing to do?

You're exhibiting one of the classic fallacies of the conspiracy theorist. If everyone in the word treated the Jews like crap you'd be saying "See? The Jews must deserve it!" Either way, you're able to weave the facts into your chosen narrative.

Charles Martel said:
I don't know, you tell me. You're the one who believes that someone is in the Antichrist's mafia just because they have Jewish ancestry.
Yea, where did I say that? Show me.

Btw, Judaism and the Talmud are biological-based concepts, not Christianity and the Church.

But they love to play the victim of everyone else's supposed "racism".

Chutzpah anyone?
You're not making any sense. Do you think that refutes the statement you quoted? If anything you're confirming it.
 

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Because we as Christians and Europeans have persecuted them for centuries (thousands of years if you count pre-Christian pagan antisemitism) culminating in one of the bloodiest mass slaughters in history and world leaders have decided that being nice to them for a change is the kind thing to do?
Ah, the endlessguilt trip and eternal victimhood argument.

Save it volnutt, I'm not buying it. Those dignitaries go to the pagan wall and grovel for one reason and one reason only: money.

Not because it's the "kind" thing to do.

Well, maybe not the pope and the patriarch, that's all about some kind of delusional "ecumenism" and a whole lot of wasted time on "dialogue".

You're exhibiting one of the classic fallacies of the conspiracy theorist. If everyone in the word treated the Jews like crap you'd be saying "See? The Jews must deserve it!" Either way, you're able to weave the facts into your chosen narrative.
Yea, that's just what I would be saying. ::)

How bout taking responsibility for your actions? How bout reaping what you sowed? You know, like all the Germans and Russians that were killed for embracing atheist Communism and pagan Nazism? Sorry volnutt, I don't exclude Jews when they're on the wrong side of something, i know that's heresy to people like you, but I belong to the Faith that worships the Truth, not popular opinion.

You're not making any sense. Do you think that refutes the statement you quoted? If anything you're confirming it.
Sigh.....I'm not refuting anything. You can go play semantics all you want.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Because we as Christians and Europeans have persecuted them for centuries (thousands of years if you count pre-Christian pagan antisemitism) culminating in one of the bloodiest mass slaughters in history and world leaders have decided that being nice to them for a change is the kind thing to do?
Ah, the endlessguilt trip and eternal victimhood argument.
Ah the endless victim blaming. "Of course she got gassed at Auschwitz. Look at what she was wearing!" right?

Charles Martel said:
Save it volnutt, I'm not buying it. Those dignitaries go to the pagan wall and grovel for one reason and one reason only: money.

Not because it's the "kind" thing to do.

Well, maybe not the pope and the patriarch, that's all about some kind of delusional "ecumenism" and a whole lot of wasted time on "dialogue".
I don't deny that those motives also come into it.

But we do have a certain culpability that it's only right we acknowledge it- just like we do with black history in the US. If we can't do so out of love, we at least do so out of propriety.

Charles Martel said:
You're exhibiting one of the classic fallacies of the conspiracy theorist. If everyone in the word treated the Jews like crap you'd be saying "See? The Jews must deserve it!" Either way, you're able to weave the facts into your chosen narrative.
Yea, that's just what I would be saying. ::)

How bout taking responsibility for your actions? How bout reaping what you sowed? You know, like all the Germans and Russians that were killed for embracing atheist Communism and pagan Nazism? Sorry volnutt, I don't exclude Jews when they're on the wrong side of something, i know that's heresy to people like you, but I belong to the Faith that worships the Truth, not popular opinion.
Ever heard of "own goaling?"
 
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