• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

St. Innocent's Academy: Stories from the Cult

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
Hello, everyone!

During American Orthodoxy's turbulent period in the mid-late 20th century, certain parties took infamous advantage of the confusion. Monasteries were founded and run by non-monastics, non-Christian movements were absorbed into dioceses wholesale without oversight, and the line between canonical and non-canonical jurisdictions was straddled, hopped and torn.

While many things have improved since then, lingering blights founded during that chaotic time remain with us to this day. One such blight is "St. Innocent's Academy," which purports to be a boarding school for troubled youth in Alaska. In reality, it's a personality cult — a vehicle for institutionalized abuse with an Orthodox veneer. The following site has been launched to host the testimony of abuse victims, and bring these abuses to the attention of the relevant secular and diocesan authorities:

https://academyabuse.info/statements-from-victims

St. Innocent's Academy's leaders are currently under the Bulgarian diocese. I've posted this thread to raise awareness among the online Orthodox community.

Thanks.
 

livefreeordie

High Elder
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
753
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Wow, many prayers to all those impacted by this. I know many of the people who gave testimonials. I hope they are able to get some action taken.
 

jah777

Archon
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,153
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Lord have mercy.  It is always sad when victims of abuse claim that they have informed their bishops and yet nothing is done to resolve the matter.  I hope this situation will be corrected.

Christ the Savior Brotherhood does have a colorful past but post-conversion to Orthodoxy there is both very good and bad.  I do not think it would be fair to negatively characterize all clergy and parishes affiliated with CSB.  Fr. John Koen, for instance, whose letter of resignation was posted on this site, has been affiliated with CSB and certainly recognizes that what is happening at the Academy is not right.  He should be commended for speaking up about these problems.

I have not seen this often, but there is a certain guru complex that some, especially convert clergy, can be tempted by.  When people have not met a true elder and have not experienced the strict yet loving care of a true spiritual father, they may read certain accounts of strict elders from the Sayings of the Desert Fathers or Gerontikon and try to imitate these examples, yet without the correct context and without having passed spiritual kindergarten to understand when certain measures are needed and to what extent.  When those who are not spiritually qualified style themselves as elders, they often end up using fear, coercion, and intimidation to assert their ego-driven authority which is used as a substitute for the absence of genuine spiritual authority.  There are certainly accounts of genuine elders yelling at and berating their close monastic disciples in order to humble them when they see that they are being tempted by pride, but some unpurified people may read such accounts and use such behavior to justify indulging their passion of anger, and this indulgence in anger, when misapplied, destroys the recipient of this treatment rather than delivering them from passions.  If wood needs to be repaired, a hammer, nail, and significant force is required.  If you try to fix a crack in a window with the same method, you will end up destroying the window, and the final state is even worse than the first.  Unfortunately, there are some clergy who can’t tell wood from glass.

On a side, and somewhat personal note, I find it interesting to note how Elder Joseph the Hesychast treated Elder Ephraim and many of his monastic disciples on the Holy Mountain in contrast to how Elder Ephraim and the other spiritual fathers under his care handle the laity who come to them.  Their manner of life on the Holy Mountain was very strict but people came to Elder Joseph voluntarily because of his great spiritual achievements.  He would not insist they stay, but rather he would try to discourage them, since their manner of life was very harsh and it took exceptional self-sacrifice and commitment to persevere.  In a monastery, and especially in a hesychastic skete, absolute obedience is necessary and Elder Joseph would call his disciples names and use such tactics to humble them, though I cannot recall any stories of yelling, and certainly not physically hurting anyone.  A large monastic community is different than such an ascetical skete in the wilderness of the Holy Mountain, and guiding laity is a lot different than guiding ascetics or monastics.  In my experience with spiritual fathers trained by Elder Ephraim, I have seen only gentleness and love, always suggesting and encouraging and never demanding, never shocked or angered even when the most severe sins are confessed, though they are criticized by some as being “too strict” because they give penances (though usually very light compared to the canons) and so many clergy have abandoned the canons and penances altogether.  These spiritual fathers have heard some of the worst sins imaginable, and yet they do not berate and cast out those who come to them, but with discernment and love try to heal what is broken. 

So, a holy elder may act one way to his close monastic disciples, but will not act the same way with the laity or those in such an academy.  A confessor or priest who is not purified of his passions should not try to imitate these measures with the laity that they read about in accounts of holy elders in a strict monastic setting.  If a spiritual father is genuine, even when giving strict penances, his spiritual children love him, they know that they are loved, they see the benefit in their lives from his prayers and advice, and they see him as a loving and caring father rather than a fearful and threatening authoritarian.  A good spiritual father will help you to feel free and not enslaved, and will humbly give advice on how to overcome sins and make progress, rather than tearing you down and driving you to despair.  Despair is the greatest sin, and when a priest drives his spiritual children to despair, his guidance is demonic. 
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,567
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Am I missing something?  What is the conection between the HOOMies and St. Innocent's Academy?
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
17,920
Reaction score
140
Points
63
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
I've never heard of this school before, but before we all grab our pitchforks, other than the six statements on that website, is their other evidence or allegations of improprieties at this school?
 

Porter ODoran

Toumarches
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
12,135
Reaction score
6
Points
38
Age
49
Location
Eugene, OR
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
GOAA
TheTrisagion said:
I've never heard of this school before, but before we all grab our pitchforks, other than the six statements on that website, is their other evidence or allegations of improprieties at this school?
I think it's more, Stop, think, and investigate before you send your kid there.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Orest said:
Am I missing something?  What is the conection between the HOOMies and St. Innocent's Academy?
It was founded by HOOMies...or at least former HOOMies.  Bulgarian = former HOOMies (not totally, but many former HOOM/CSB parishes are with the Bulgarians since 2000.  Others with OCA and Serbs.)

Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  One might view just going to any type of school in Alaska is abuse due to the remote location/extreme weather/loneliness/etc.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Porter ODoran said:
TheTrisagion said:
I've never heard of this school before, but before we all grab our pitchforks, other than the six statements on that website, is their other evidence or allegations of improprieties at this school?
I think it's more, Stop, think, and investigate before you send your kid there.
+1
 

Porter ODoran

Toumarches
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
12,135
Reaction score
6
Points
38
Age
49
Location
Eugene, OR
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
GOAA
Elisha said:
Orest said:
Am I missing something?  What is the conection between the HOOMies and St. Innocent's Academy?
It was founded by HOOMies...or at least former HOOMies.  Bulgarian = former HOOMies (not totally, but many former HOOM/CSB parishes are with the Bulgarians since 2000.  Others with OCA and Serbs.)

Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  One might view just going to any type of school in Alaska is abuse due to the remote location/extreme weather/loneliness/etc.
Most Alaskan cities are along the Southern coast in a beautiful temperate-rainforest climate. Shouldn't be much more "extreme" than Seattle, most of the year.
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,854
Reaction score
55
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Porter ODoran said:
Elisha said:
Orest said:
Am I missing something?  What is the conection between the HOOMies and St. Innocent's Academy?
It was founded by HOOMies...or at least former HOOMies.  Bulgarian = former HOOMies (not totally, but many former HOOM/CSB parishes are with the Bulgarians since 2000.  Others with OCA and Serbs.)

Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  One might view just going to any type of school in Alaska is abuse due to the remote location/extreme weather/loneliness/etc.
Most Alaskan cities are along the Southern coast in a beautiful temperate-rainforest climate. Shouldn't be much more "extreme" than Seattle, most of the year.

It's in Kodiak


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodiak,_Alaska#Climate

The community of Kodiak lies within the subpolar oceanic climate zone (Köppen Cfc), marked by relatively long and cold winters and mild summers. Precipitation is heavy year-round, though markedly less in the summer months.
 

Porter ODoran

Toumarches
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
12,135
Reaction score
6
Points
38
Age
49
Location
Eugene, OR
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
GOAA
Thank you.

I was addressing the "any school in Alaska" comment and a common misperception.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Porter ODoran said:
Elisha said:
Orest said:
Am I missing something?  What is the conection between the HOOMies and St. Innocent's Academy?
It was founded by HOOMies...or at least former HOOMies.  Bulgarian = former HOOMies (not totally, but many former HOOM/CSB parishes are with the Bulgarians since 2000.  Others with OCA and Serbs.)

Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  One might view just going to any type of school in Alaska is abuse due to the remote location/extreme weather/loneliness/etc.

Ok....well, those in the northerly area.  ;D
Most Alaskan cities are along the Southern coast in a beautiful temperate-rainforest climate. Shouldn't be much more "extreme" than Seattle, most of the year.
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,854
Reaction score
55
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
I think that most boarding schools for 'troubled' boys are not going to be in the larger cities...as those places also have more resources overall.

so the isolation comments are very germane to the conversation here....
 

Shlomlokh

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
33
Location
Roanoke, VA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Bulgarian/GOA
This is very disturbing if true. I have met Fr. Paisius a few times and never suspected anything like what is being claimed. He and my parish priest have been friends for 30 years. Lord, have mercy!

In Christ,
Andrew
 

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
Elisha said:
Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  
I believe the site's allegations are confined to after the year 2000, so far.
 

IXOYE

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
32
Points
48
Lord, have mercy!
 

jah777

Archon
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,153
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Elisha said:
Question for the OP:  Are these recent allegations?  Longstanding?  Current problems?  Since Academy inception?  Occured a few years ago?  One might view just going to any type of school in Alaska is abuse due to the remote location/extreme weather/loneliness/etc.
Read Fr. John Koen's letter of resignation from the CSB over what his son and daughter experienced at the academy, dated Saturday (1/10/15).  It sounds like Fr. John's has been affiliated with CSB, his son and daughter attended the academy some time ago, and he just recently learned of the problems and obviously believes that the allegations are true:

https://academyabuse.info/other-communications/14-csb-resign-fr-john-koen
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
Are Children's Services in Alaska investigating these reports? I assume that this institution falls under some aspect of state inspection and licensing as such rules are fairly uniform in the USA if any state or federal funding is involved or if the institution receives young people through court or diversion placements with parental consent.
 

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
podkarpatska said:
I assume that this institution falls under some aspect of state inspection and licensing as such rules are fairly uniform in the USA if any state or federal funding is involved or if the institution receives young people through court or diversion placements with parental consent.
I don't think they receive any federal or state funding, but they may receive a tax break of some sort; and I don't think people have been placed there as court or diversion placements. Saint Innocent's Academy is more analogous to a scaled-down version of Tranquility Bay than an actual diversion placement rehab center; a place to send "troubled" youth, where troubled doesn't necessarily equal delinquent or druggie.
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
NicholasMyra said:
podkarpatska said:
I assume that this institution falls under some aspect of state inspection and licensing as such rules are fairly uniform in the USA if any state or federal funding is involved or if the institution receives young people through court or diversion placements with parental consent.
I don't think they receive any federal or state funding, but they may receive a tax break of some sort; and I don't think people have been placed there as court or diversion placements. Saint Innocent's Academy is more analogous to a scaled-down version of Tranquility Bay than an actual diversion placement rehab center; a place to send "troubled" youth, where troubled doesn't necessarily equal delinquent or druggie.
But they would still require permitting and inspection and be subject to 'in loco parentis' responsibilities for the proper treatment of minors placed in their care. In English, a report to the Alaska Children's Services hot line would trigger a child protective services investigation. Was there one to anyone's knowledge... As long as the young people were under eighteen years of age that would be the law.
 

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
podkarpatska said:
But they would still require permitting and inspection and be subject to 'in loco parentis' responsibilities for the proper treatment of minors placed in their care. In English, a report to the Alaska Children's Services hot line would trigger a child protective services investigation. Was there one to anyone's knowledge... As long as the young people were under eighteen years of age that would be the law.
No protective services investigation that I know of; but there were young people under 18 there.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Looks like law enforcement is being brought in.  Update on the homepage.  Two more victim statements as well.

This is a (Facebook) statement from a young priest's wife who (both of them) used to be members of my parish (before he went to seminary) and were members of the former HOOMie/CSB parish in the same town before that.

"For those who say this should not have happened like this, or this should have been done quietly. I say that ship sailed 10-15 years ago. There is a time for things to be done quietly, and people had a chance to do things quietly, but no one did, or no one listened... When it becomes severe abuse, and even abuse of small children by a supposed man of God, strong actions need to be taken. There is nothing more damaging to a child's soul then someone who is supposed to be representing Christ, to abuse them and call it Godly. Lord have mercy! Lord have mercy! Lord have mercy!"

https://academyabuse.info/

P.S.  Has the Pokrov website gone ballistic yet?  Someone is welcome to check and report back.

 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
This is from a statement from a Monk Silouan. I have said this somewhat tongue-in-cheek several times in the past regarding those who seem to not be able to do anything in life without consulting a "spiritual father", but here it is said in seriousness:  "We all lived a life of “purity” because we were never given the opportunity to do otherwise. Even
with this tight control of our lives in which you had to get a blessing to go to the
bathroom
..."
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,567
Reaction score
1
Points
36
jah777 said:
Lord have mercy.  It is always sad when victims of abuse claim that they have informed their bishops and yet nothing is done to resolve the matter.  I hope this situation will be corrected.

Christ the Savior Brotherhood does have a colorful past but post-conversion to Orthodoxy there is both very good and bad.  I do not think it would be fair to negatively characterize all clergy and parishes affiliated with CSB.  Fr. John Koen, for instance, whose letter of resignation was posted on this site, has been affiliated with CSB and certainly recognizes that what is happening at the Academy is not right.  He should be commended for speaking up about these problems.

 

What is this Christ the Savior Brotherhood?  I notice that the letter is address to a "Sr" Kate.
 

Adela

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Elisha said:
This is from a statement from a Monk Silouan. I have said this somewhat tongue-in-cheek several times in the past regarding those who seem to not be able to do anything in life without consulting a "spiritual father", but here it is said in seriousness:  "We all lived a life of “purity” because we were never given the opportunity to do otherwise. Even
with this tight control of our lives in which you had to get a blessing to go to the
bathroom
..."
This is so disturbing.  I hope that the church leadership at the highest level looks into what mind-control tactics were used to keep adults and children in such a mind-destroying abusive situation.  And, that they make sure to be on the lookout for similar situations.  This is horrible.  This is something that the worst cults do.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Orest said:
jah777 said:
Lord have mercy.  It is always sad when victims of abuse claim that they have informed their bishops and yet nothing is done to resolve the matter.  I hope this situation will be corrected.

Christ the Savior Brotherhood does have a colorful past but post-conversion to Orthodoxy there is both very good and bad.  I do not think it would be fair to negatively characterize all clergy and parishes affiliated with CSB.  Fr. John Koen, for instance, whose letter of resignation was posted on this site, has been affiliated with CSB and certainly recognizes that what is happening at the Academy is not right.  He should be commended for speaking up about these problems.

 

What is this Christ the Savior Brotherhood?  I notice that the letter is address to a "Sr" Kate.
Read the link:

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order_of_MANS

Note:  it mentions that Raphael House is under the OCA, which is out of date.  It has not been associated with an Orthodox church (or "Orthodox") for a couple years now.

 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Adela said:
Elisha said:
This is from a statement from a Monk Silouan. I have said this somewhat tongue-in-cheek several times in the past regarding those who seem to not be able to do anything in life without consulting a "spiritual father", but here it is said in seriousness:  "We all lived a life of “purity” because we were never given the opportunity to do otherwise. Even
with this tight control of our lives in which you had to get a blessing to go to the
bathroom
..."
This is so disturbing.  I hope that the church leadership at the highest level looks into what mind-control tactics were used to keep adults and children in such a mind-destroying abusive situation.  And, that they make sure to be on the lookout for similar situations.  This is horrible.  This is something that the worst cults do.
There are many CSB/HOOM parishes that have more or less "normalized"....some much faster than others.  But this "Academy" obviously did not and refused to change their ways.  Indeed...VERY disturbing.
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Age
76
Location
South Carolina
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the South (OCA)
I think the issue is whether such an "academy" is appropriate as a religious one. I read most of the complaints and what I saw is what I and many others have experienced in military basic training. But, what is appropriate for military basic training or in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers, may not be appropriate for an "academy" that is under the aegis of a canonical Orthodox Church, such as the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in this instance. That is above my pay grade. However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it. I do not see anything anywhere that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church even knows about this, let alone is investigating it. I would be more than happy to be corrected.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I think the issue is whether such an "academy" is appropriate as a religious one. I read most of the complaints and what I saw is what I and many others have experienced in military basic training. But, what is appropriate for military basic training or in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers, may not be appropriate for an "academy" that is under the aegis of a canonical Orthodox Church, such as the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in this instance. That is above my pay grade. However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it. I do not see anything anywhere that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church even knows about this, let alone is investigating it. I would be more than happy to be corrected.
Carl, read the quote I posted from the former CSB priest's wife.  I think it is pretty obvious that the issue was raised and ignored until it couldn't have been ignored any longer.  You say "church authorities"?  As she said, that ship sailed a looooooong time ago.  Law enforcement is involved now as they should be.  This "Fr. Paisius" should be in jail from what I can tell from the complaints.
 

NicholasMyra

Merarches
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Website
hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Partially-overlapping
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
what is appropriate...in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers
Any "boot camp for juvenile delinquents or underachievers" that does the things reported by the victims of SIA ought to be shut down and the administration prosecuted.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it.
They were. Besides, criminal abuse ought to go straight to the secular authorities if the heirarchs don't report it immediately; we aren't the police.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it.
They were. Besides, criminal abuse ought to go straight to the secular authorities if the heirarchs don't report it immediately; we aren't the police.

[/quote]

+1
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
17,920
Reaction score
140
Points
63
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Lord, have mercy. It sounds as if the worst may be true as more information comes to light. May God bestow His mercy and healing on the victims and may the guilty be brought to justice.

I agree that as soon as such things are made aware, they ought to be brought to the Church authorities, but if the Church authorities will not act, then it needs to be brought to police. I think it would be most appropriate for Church authorities to report it to police, but if they will not, those who are aware of the situation must.
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Age
76
Location
South Carolina
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the South (OCA)
NicholasMyra said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
what is appropriate...in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers
Any "boot camp for juvenile delinquents or underachievers" that does the things reported by the victims of SIA ought to be shut down and the administration prosecuted.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it.
They were. Besides, criminal abuse ought to go straight to the secular authorities if the heirarchs don't report it immediately; we aren't the police.
I personally agree with both of your points. Regarding reporting to authorities, my parish just had its annual meeting and we were briefed regarding mandatory reporting responsibilities. In our case, we are to report to our bishop and to the police/protective services simultaneously to stay in compliance of both our state and the OCA policy on the matter.
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Age
76
Location
South Carolina
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the South (OCA)
Elisha said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it.
They were. Besides, criminal abuse ought to go straight to the secular authorities if the heirarchs don't report it immediately; we aren't the police.
+1
[/quote]

I understand, but going to the police is certainly not the same as going to the public through social media and the Internet. I just wish that the site had published correspondence to and from the Bulgarian Diocese to show explicitly that opening an Internet site was their last, desperate step to find a solution to the problem.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Elisha said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it.
They were. Besides, criminal abuse ought to go straight to the secular authorities if the heirarchs don't report it immediately; we aren't the police.
+1
I understand, but going to the police is certainly not the same as going to the public through social media and the Internet. I just wish that the site had published correspondence to and from the Bulgarian Diocese to show explicitly that opening an Internet site was their last, desperate step to find a solution to the problem.
[/quote]

I suspect that there was no "from" - only "to".
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I think the issue is whether such an "academy" is appropriate as a religious one. I read most of the complaints and what I saw is what I and many others have experienced in military basic training. But, what is appropriate for military basic training or in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers, may not be appropriate for an "academy" that is under the aegis of a canonical Orthodox Church, such as the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in this instance. That is above my pay grade. However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it. I do not see anything anywhere that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church even knows about this, let alone is investigating it. I would be more than happy to be corrected.
It has to be noted that whenever allegations of abuse of children are raised in the context of an institution - including a school, treatment center or a church, they must be reported to the proper authorities. I agree that reporting them to the hierarchical supervisors is appropriate, but in the United States, clergy may be treated as mandatory reporters in certain circumstances and lay staff almost always are mandatory reporters. The ongoing disaster in the Roman Catholic Church regarding the internalization of accusations of abuse and maltreatment should have taught us that much. Why should we assume that our clergy and hierarchs are any better suited to deal with such than were their Roman Catholic counterparts?

Going through children's services is protected in the first instance as their investigations are confidential until such point that civil action or criminal authorities are brought into a matter.
 

Elisha

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,908
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
NorCal
podkarpatska said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I think the issue is whether such an "academy" is appropriate as a religious one. I read most of the complaints and what I saw is what I and many others have experienced in military basic training. But, what is appropriate for military basic training or in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers, may not be appropriate for an "academy" that is under the aegis of a canonical Orthodox Church, such as the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in this instance. That is above my pay grade. However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it. I do not see anything anywhere that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church even knows about this, let alone is investigating it. I would be more than happy to be corrected.
It has to be noted that whenever allegations of abuse of children are raised in the context of an institution - including a school, treatment center or a church, they must be reported to the proper authorities. I agree that reporting them to the hierarchical supervisors is appropriate, but in the United States, clergy may be treated as mandatory reporters in certain circumstances and lay staff almost always are mandatory reporters. The ongoing disaster in the Roman Catholic Church regarding the internalization of accusations of abuse and maltreatment should have taught us that much. Why should we assume that our clergy and hierarchs are any better suited to deal with such than were their Roman Catholic counterparts?

Going through children's services is protected in the first instance as their investigations are confidential until such point that civil action or criminal authorities are brought into a matter.
Of course, most of those coming forward to report the abuse are now adults.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,380
Points
113
Age
161
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Elisha said:
podkarpatska said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I think the issue is whether such an "academy" is appropriate as a religious one. I read most of the complaints and what I saw is what I and many others have experienced in military basic training. But, what is appropriate for military basic training or in a "boot camp" for juvenile delinquents or underachievers, may not be appropriate for an "academy" that is under the aegis of a canonical Orthodox Church, such as the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in this instance. That is above my pay grade. However, I am disturbed by this issue becoming fought in public. I thought that the way Orthodox Christians did not elevate such an issue into the public arena until after the appropriate church authorities had been given a chance to fix it. I do not see anything anywhere that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church even knows about this, let alone is investigating it. I would be more than happy to be corrected.
It has to be noted that whenever allegations of abuse of children are raised in the context of an institution - including a school, treatment center or a church, they must be reported to the proper authorities. I agree that reporting them to the hierarchical supervisors is appropriate, but in the United States, clergy may be treated as mandatory reporters in certain circumstances and lay staff almost always are mandatory reporters. The ongoing disaster in the Roman Catholic Church regarding the internalization of accusations of abuse and maltreatment should have taught us that much. Why should we assume that our clergy and hierarchs are any better suited to deal with such than were their Roman Catholic counterparts?

Going through children's services is protected in the first instance as their investigations are confidential until such point that civil action or criminal authorities are brought into a matter.
Of course, most of those coming forward to report the abuse are now adults.
Is abuse of an adult any less heinous?
 
Top