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State of Marriage in Heaven

Bizzlebin

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What exactly is the state of marriage in Heaven? Jesus speaks of everyone living as the angels, yet He also speaks of it being a bond that God has made, and that should never be broken.
 

pensateomnia

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Many theologians take the "living as angels" bit to mean that the relationship between husband and wife will not be carnal. Thus, "marriage" in heaven does not include conjugal duties.

This does not exclude, of course, some other kind of relationship (spiritual, et al.), but defining what exactly that relationship is (or will be) is as difficult as defining heaven.
 
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I would really like to see more written on this, church fathers...something. It seems a pity to have put so much into a marriage then *and I am not speaking of conjugal relations here* have us be like two people who just met at a baptist chicken fry. I could never quite understand why we would put so much effort into hanging on to something, that at times is soooo difficult, just to let it go completely in the afterlife.
Rebecca
 

ozgeorge

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calligraphqueen said:
I could never quite understand why we would put so much effort into hanging on to something, that at times is soooo difficult, just to let it go completely in the afterlife.
If (God forbid) you were widowed and remarried, could you imagine the awkward situation that might create in Heaven? :D
 
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An interesting aside:

A Christian lady who was once considering Islam was really struggling with the idea of where she would fit in within the context of the Islamic afterlife, in light of the fact that according to Islamic eschatology, her husband will be busy with 72 virgins. She eventually approached an imam and asked him directly, what her relationship with her husband would be, and how she would fit in with these 72 virgins. The imam thought long and hard, and came up with the most fascinating answer: she would be the "queen" virgin, or in other words, the CEO of her husbands little wh*re organisation. Needless to say, considering the fact she is sane, Islam was not for her.

^True story
 

donkeyhotay

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This is a very distressing topic. If I have to be married to my present wife in heaven, I think I'd rather go to hell. :D
 

minasoliman

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I've heard a story told by a Coptic priest about a husband martyr. He told his wife that I'm going to leave right now, but only to pray and wait for you so that we may spend time together in eternity.

The moral of the story is that there is no such thing as "till death do us part" in the Coptic Church. I don't know about other churches.

God bless.

Mina
 

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ozgeorge said:
If (God forbid) you were widowed and remarried, could you imagine the awkward situation that might create in Heaven? :D
Perhaps that is why the first marriage service is always unique, and those marriage services that follow (if they do) are never on the same level.
 

Bizzlebin

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pensateomnia said:
Many theologians take the "living as angels" bit to mean that the relationship between husband and wife will not be carnal. Thus, "marriage" in heaven does not include conjugal duties.

This does not exclude, of course, some other kind of relationship (spiritual, et al.), but defining what exactly that relationship is (or will be) is as difficult as defining heaven.
Thanks, that helps a lot. Any patristic quotes on the matter?
 
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This is a very distressing topic. If I have to be married to my present wife in heaven, I think I'd rather go to hell.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

uh....okay.

Here's a little taste of Peter Kreeft on the subject:


Might there be another function in which baby-making and marriage are swallowed up and transformed, aufgehoben? Everything on earth is analogous to something in Heaven. Heaven neither simply removes nor simply continues earthly things. If we apply this principle to sexual intercourse, we get the conclusion that intercourse on earth is a shadow or symbol of intercourse in Heaven. Could we speculate about what that could be?
Interesting.....

Here's his article:

IS THERE SEX IN HEAVEN?

Let's see what you think about what he has to say.

Brother Ed
 

pensateomnia

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Bizzlebin said:
Thanks, that helps a lot. Any patristic quotes on the matter?
There are many, many, many of them, especially in St. John Chrysostom's On Virginity. Here are two relevant quotes that I happen to have readily at hand since someone else quoted them in a recent post on the Indiana list.

The first is from St. John Chrysostom's homily on Genesis 4:1 ("Now Adam knew his wife, and she conceived"). Notice how he assumes "living like angels" means no cohabitation, i.e. conjugal activities.

After the disobedience, after the banishment from Paradise, then it was that married life began. Before the
disobedience, the first people lived like angels, and there was no talk of cohabitation. And how could this be, when they were free of
bodily needs? Thus, in the beginning life was virginal; but, when, because of the carelessness (of the first people), disobedience
appeared and sin entered the world, virginity fled away from them, since they had become unworthy of such a great good, and in its place there entered into effect the law of married life.
Thus, we have a perfect symmetry: The Edenic man existed without conjugal relations and was therefore "like the angels," and so too shall the heavenly, transfigured man. This is the standard Patristic interpretation of Genesis, most especially after Chrysostom, who emphasized these things quite strongly in a number of homilies and tracts. Of course, this doesn't quite make sense prima facie, according to the text of Genesis, which obviously speaks of sexual differentiation before the fall and even records God's pre-fall command to be fruitful and multiple. Nevertheless, the Fathers quickly dealt with such objections, as we see, for example, in St John Damascene's Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith 4, 24:

In Paradise virginity held sway. Indeed, Divine Scripture tells that both Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed. But after their transgression they knew that they were naked, and in their shame they sewed aprons for themselves. And when, after the transgression, Adam heard, dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return, when death entered into the world by reason of the transgression, then Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare seed. So that to prevent the wearing out and destruction of the race by death, marriage was devised that the race of men may be preserved through the procreation of children.

But they will perhaps ask, what then is the meaning of "male and female," and "Be fruitful and multiply?" In answer we shall say that "Be fruitful and multiply" does not altogether refer to the multiplying by the marriage connection. For God had power to multiply the race also in different ways, if they kept the precept unbroken to the end. But God, Who knoweth all things before they have existence, knowing in His foreknowledge that they would fall into transgression in the future and be condemned to death, anticipated this and made "male and female," and bade them "be fruitful and multiply." Let us, then, proceed on our way and see the glories of virginity: and this also includes chastity.
http://www.balamand.edu.lb/theology/book_iv.htm

This may be one of the major ways in which Christian praxis (and, hence, theology) differs greatly from its Judaic roots. Aside from certain well-known exceptions (the Essenes), Judaism evinces a standard Ancient Near Eastern understanding of marriage, procreation and women. The Patristic sources, however, reinterpret the ideal woman as a sort of virginal, ascetical philosopher queen (e.g. St. Gregory of Nyssa's Life of Macrina). And we all know what the Fathers have to say about monastic vs. married life.
 

Bizzlebin

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Thanks a bunch. I have both of these works, so thanks for the references!
 

Mo the Ethio

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donkeyhotay said:
This is a very distressing topic.  If I have to be married to my present wife in heaven, I think I'd rather go to hell.  :D
Indeed.
If I get to heaven and find out I`m still married to my ex-wife, I`ll know I`ve been condemed to hell. :D
 

bergschlawiner

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Reminds me of some of the Mormon beliefs regarding marriages in heaven or the celestial kingdom. The Mormons have kicked marriage up a notch. ;D
 

ialmisry

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pensateomnia said:
Bizzlebin said:
Thanks, that helps a lot. Any patristic quotes on the matter?
There are many, many, many of them, especially in St. John Chrysostom's On Virginity. Here are two relevant quotes that I happen to have readily at hand since someone else quoted them in a recent post on the Indiana list.

The first is from St. John Chrysostom's homily on Genesis 4:1 ("Now Adam knew his wife, and she conceived"). Notice how he assumes "living like angels" means no cohabitation, i.e. conjugal activities.

After the disobedience, after the banishment from Paradise, then it was that married life began.  Before the
disobedience, the first people lived like angels, and there was no talk of cohabitation.  And how could this be, when they were free of
bodily needs?  Thus, in the beginning life was virginal; but, when, because of the carelessness (of the first people), disobedience
appeared and sin entered the world, virginity fled away from them, since they had become unworthy of such a great good, and in its place there entered into effect the law of married life.
Thus, we have a perfect symmetry: The Edenic man existed without conjugal relations and was therefore "like the angels," and so too shall the heavenly, transfigured man. This is the standard Patristic interpretation of Genesis, most especially after Chrysostom, who emphasized these things quite strongly in a number of homilies and tracts. Of course, this doesn't quite make sense prima facie, according to the text of Genesis, which obviously speaks of sexual differentiation before the fall and even records God's pre-fall command to be fruitful and multiple. Nevertheless, the Fathers quickly dealt with such objections, as we see, for example, in St John Damascene's Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith 4, 24:

In Paradise virginity held sway. Indeed, Divine Scripture tells that both Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed. But after their transgression they knew that they were naked, and in their shame they sewed aprons for themselves. And when, after the transgression, Adam heard, dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return, when death entered into the world by reason of the transgression, then Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare seed. So that to prevent the wearing out and destruction of the race by death, marriage was devised that the race of men may be preserved through the procreation of children.

But they will perhaps ask, what then is the meaning of "male and female," and "Be fruitful and multiply?" In answer we shall say that "Be fruitful and multiply" does not altogether refer to the multiplying by the marriage connection.  For God had power to multiply the race also in different ways, if they kept the precept unbroken to the end. But God, Who knoweth all things before they have existence, knowing in His foreknowledge that they would fall into transgression in the future and be condemned to death, anticipated this and made "male and female," and bade them "be fruitful and multiply."  Let us, then, proceed on our way and see the glories of virginity: and this also includes chastity.
http://www.balamand.edu.lb/theology/book_iv.htm

This may be one of the major ways in which Christian praxis (and, hence, theology) differs greatly from its Judaic roots. Aside from certain well-known exceptions (the Essenes), Judaism evinces a standard Ancient Near Eastern understanding of marriage, procreation and women. The Patristic sources, however, reinterpret the ideal woman as a sort of virginal, ascetical philosopher queen (e.g. St. Gregory of Nyssa's Life of Macrina). And we all know what the Fathers have to say about monastic vs. married life.
One thing about the resemblence between Eden and Heaven: in Eden our parents were naked, in Heaven we (hopefully) will be clad (in linen).
 

nstanosheck

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It probably all comes down to the Church Fathers' interpretations of Matthew 22:30 (if I am remembering correctly) when Christ Himself comments on the state of Marriage in Heaven, especially for those that remarry.

Here is a start: http://www.orthodox.net/questions/10friape.html
 

Heorhij

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ialmisry said:
One thing about the resemblence between Eden and Heaven: in Eden our parents were naked, in Heaven we (hopefully) will be clad (in linen).
No. There is plenty of scriptural and patristic evidence that we will be clad in denim.

(Kidding of course... but I really find all these speculations weird, because we have absolutely no idea what "heaven" is, esp. having in mind that it will "pass away" just like the earth, and there will be "New Jerusalem" where the new "heaven" and the new "earth" will be one, and there will be no time, etc. etc. etc.)
 

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And I've always hoped and prayed that there will be a chance in heaven for those who never got to experience the joys of marriage on earth, to experience it there...
 
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