Strange icons

Volnutt

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LBK said:
Volnutt said:
This particular image doesn't show the Pope being cast into Hell.

Also, there's some pretty harsh imprecation against entire nations in the Psalms and Prophets. The Hymns of Holy Saturday also turn on the blast furnace against Judas and "the Jews" (however that's construed).
The hymns of Holy Week might treat the Sanhedrin and Judas harshly, but never do they openly condemn them as beyond redemption. Their redemption or otherwise is in God's hands, not ours. By contrast, the painters of images such as the "ark of salvation" and the ones posted by Pravoslavac have already passed judgement on the RCC.

On "entire nations" being condemned in the OT, a careful look at the Great Canon of St Andrew of Crete is quite instructive.
Ok.
 

Dominika

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biro said:
What do the words say, please?  ???
The martyrdom of st. priest-martyr Theodore (страдање светог свештеномученика Теодора)
More about him in English <a href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theodore_(Nestorovi%C4%87)_of_Vr%C5%A1ac">here</a>
 

biro

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Dominika said:
biro said:
What do the words say, please?  ???
The martyrdom of st. priest-martyr Theodore (страдање светог свештеномученика Теодора)
More about him in English <a href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theodore_(Nestorovi%C4%87)_of_Vr%C5%A1ac">here</a>
Lord have mercy.
 

LBK

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hecma925 said:
Yeah, that icon just makes me want to hate Turks.
That's one reason why that image should only be used as part of a series of small panels of scenes of the saint's life, surrounding a central panel of the saint in frontal pose. Such images should not be icons in their own right. The focus should be on the saint, not the inflaming of passions at the sight of a graphic rendition of his martyrdom.
 

hecma925

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Looks like a Mirage 2000 and if the roundel is any indication, it's either Greece's or El Salvador's air force; I'm thinking Greece.  But it looks photo-shopped.
 

wgw

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It could be real if it's a Mirage 2000.  The Hellenic Airforce has around 50ish of them, along with over a hundred F-16 Fighting Falcons and 34 F4 Phantoms (surprising to see someone still flying those). And if anyone would paint an icon of St. George on the dorsal side of a Mirage, it would be the Greeks.  The Russians might do the same thing but on a MiG or a Sukhoi.  Love those Soviet aircraft, especially the airliners.  And especially the Tu-114, the fastest and largest four engined turboprop airliner ever made, sharing a wing with the Tu-95 bear and having a 450 MPH cruising speed.  That's fast enough to compete with jets, which are only a hundred MPH faster on average (excepting the 747, which can cruise at 695 mph).  Aeroflot and Japan Air Lines used to fly a joint Moscow - Tokyo nonstop service on the Tu-114; would that I could travel back in time and experience THAT!  And unlike most Soviet airlines, AFAIK the Tu-114 never had a fatal accident, probably because the seven man crew, navigation dome and parts commonality with the Tu-95 Bear, which is still the Russians frontline strategic nuclear bomber, made pilot error, navigation error and maintenance errors less common, due to crew sharing with the Soviet Airforce. 

It's definitelt not the El Salvadorean Airforce, which makes sense given that for them to paint a Byzantine icon on their planes would be...unexpected, and the closest thing they have to a Mirage 2000 fighter jet is the Cessna A-37 jet trainer/light attack aircraft.  But given the Syriac Orthodox Church picking up nearly a million Guatemalans, we would be unwise to discount the possibility of Central America becoming a major mission field for the Orthodox, given the declining popularity of the Roman Catholics in the region.

But I find nothing disturbing about painting an icon of St. George slaying the dragon, or St. Michael the Archangel for that matter, on the underside of fighter jets of a predominantly Orthodox nation. After all, St. Athanasius insisted that military service was honorable.

Now for my contribution to the thread, I present the source for my own icon of St. Athanasius:

http://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/marmusaapsepaintings.html

Sadly these have become "strange" in the sense of exceptional or unusual, and that's due to the mass iconoclasm the Syriac Orthodox have suffered since the Islamic conquest of their homeland.  Also notice how the frescoes were defaced to remove those not recognized as saints by the Catholics after the schism caused that monastery to fall into their hands, in a further blow to Syriac Orthodox liturgical heritage.  But what survives is priceless.
 

wgw

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By the way I agree entirely with LBK that the icons showing the Pope going to Hell, or being trampled on by Mark of Ephesus, or the Ark of Salvation with anti - Orthodox forces outside, are inappropriate.

Call me daft however but where were the Jews represented in the Ark of Salvation icon?  I saw Luther, the Pope, Julian the Apostate, attacking rulers,,the new age,mand two labels I couldn't read, one by a bishop in Orthodox vestments (perhaps an Eastern Catholic, Moscow Patriarchate bishop if this was from ROCOR pre-2006, or an ecumenist?) but I don't see any stereotypical jews in Haredi street attire or in prayer shawls, kippas and tefillin, with some Tzitzit visible, so if there is anti-Semitism in that icon, I am not seeing it explicitly but implicitly.  But granted some of the labels are too obscured to read properly and you might be noticing some imagery I've overlooked.
 

Irish Melkite

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Also notice how the frescoes were defaced to remove those not recognized as saints by the Catholics after the schism caused that monastery to fall into their hands,
Let's try and stick to fact. Since the 'defaced' image third from left in the first photo is St John Chrysostom, its condition wouldn't seem to fit your hypothesis. To say nothing of the Theotokos and the infant Jesus.

Many years,

Neil
 

LBK

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wgw said:
Sorry, my mistake.  I read elsewhere on the net that images of Jacob of Sarugh and Severus, for example, were defaced.
Not everything you read on the internet is true.  :police:
 

hecma925

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LBK said:
hecma925 said:
Why do you think this one is strange, hecma?  ???
The weird square and hexagon with a sigma in the middle.  It's not a watermark to prevent people from printing it.  If it's a logo, it's really weird to do it on the icon.
 

LBK

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It is indeed a watermark, put there by the Greek ecclesiastical goods company called Skordilis. Here is the same icon, from their website:



One of the many pages featuring icons from this website:

http://www.ekklisiastika-eidi.gr/index.php?instance=products&pcid=5&category_id=4
 

Volnutt

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St. Constantine appearing to St Paisios, is the light depicted around St. Constantine improper?


 

LBK

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Volnutt said:
St. Constantine appearing to St Paisios, is the light depicted around St. Constantine improper?


Yes.

Here are a couple of examples of icons of the Visitation to St Sergius of Radonezh of the Mother of God and Apostles Peter and John. Neither show mandorlas surrounding the heavenly visitors, as is proper:





 

LenInSebastopol

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Volnutt said:
St. Constantine appearing to St Paisios, is the light depicted around St. Constantine improper?


Often wrong, not only around here, but isn't that blue color reserved for Christ, as the Uncreated Light?
 

podkarpatska

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I usually refrain from commenting upon icons and threads relating to icons. But I have to note that sometimes, we tend to forget when analyzing icons deriving from the period between the fall of Constantinople through the westernizing era of Peter the Great and the introduction of truly western depictions, that the traditions of iconography were often carried on by painters untrained in the specifics of iconography and the more scholarly aspects of 'required canonical components.' As moderns, we tend, in my opinion, to be overly critical of the same. I suspect that the venerable monks and nuns where the greatest deposit of such 15th-18th century compositions have been preserved, often at great risk to the monastic communities,  would take issue with us in that respect.
 

Volnutt

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podkarpatska said:
I usually refrain from commenting upon icons and threads relating to icons. But I have to note that sometimes, we tend to forget when analyzing icons deriving from the period between the fall of Constantinople through the westernizing era of Peter the Great and the introduction of truly western depictions, that the traditions of iconography were often carried on by painters untrained in the specifics of iconography and the more scholarly aspects of 'required canonical components.' As moderns, we tend, in my opinion, to be overly critical of the same. I suspect that the venerable monks and nuns where the greatest deposit of such 15th-18th century compositions have been preserved, often at great risk to the monastic communities,  would take issue with us in that respect.
I don't know when the icon I posted a picture of was painted. It looks modern to me.
 

podkarpatska

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Volnutt said:
podkarpatska said:
I usually refrain from commenting upon icons and threads relating to icons. But I have to note that sometimes, we tend to forget when analyzing icons deriving from the period between the fall of Constantinople through the westernizing era of Peter the Great and the introduction of truly western depictions, that the traditions of iconography were often carried on by painters untrained in the specifics of iconography and the more scholarly aspects of 'required canonical components.' As moderns, we tend, in my opinion, to be overly critical of the same. I suspect that the venerable monks and nuns where the greatest deposit of such 15th-18th century compositions have been preserved, often at great risk to the monastic communities,  would take issue with us in that respect.
I don't know when the icon I posted a picture of was painted. It looks modern to me.
Just a general comment...
 

Pravoslavac

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Icon of saint martyr Harinton, a monk who was beheaded by the Albanian terrorists in Kosovo in 1999.

 

LenInSebastopol

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What is she holding and who is she?
And WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
 

biro

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LenInSebastopol said:
What is she holding and who is she?
And WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
A long time ago, the Church allowed female deacons. Maybe she is one of them.

I hope that isn't a rock.
 

IXOYE

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LenInSebastopol said:
What is she holding and who is she?
And WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
^ That seems to be an icon of St. Stephen holding a stone - the instrument of his martyrdom.
 

Dominika

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IXOYE said:
LenInSebastopol said:
What is she holding and who is she?
And WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
^ That seems to be an icon of St. Stephen holding a stone - the instrument of his martyrdom.
Exactly. And moreover, there is written in Church Slavonic this is st. Stephen :laugh:


Something I found yesterday:

 

biro

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IXOYE said:
LenInSebastopol said:
What is she holding and who is she?
And WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
^ That seems to be an icon of St. Stephen holding a stone - the instrument of his martyrdom.
I stand corrected.  :)
 

Dominika

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Peacemaker said:


Nazi serpents
Wow. I think I've seen something similar (maybe even also with st. Gorazd, but I'm not sure). But I suppose it's even rather a "schlock" icon
 
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