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Porter ODoran

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Peacemaker said:
Can you identify breast feeding as vulnerability?
Probably only in a modern context. I think in the ancient world ("Blessed are the paps that gave suck!"), breastfeeding was probably a symbol of -- ability. The tenderness would be present in any case.

Nowadays fecundity is not valued in the way it was in the ancient world, which held it higher than virility for admirability, usefulness, and connections to the spiritual and the moral. Nowadays we inhabit a world of such artificiality that we would seem like beings from another planet if we dropped into any other time or culture and made our reactions manifest.
 

hecma925

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Porter ODoran said:
Joha said:
Porter ODoran said:
Starting about 1800 Europe started to censor a lot of things like that.
My first thought was: I wonder what is stranger, the Icon or the culture that finds it strange.
So the "european culture" it is. Strange Europeans...
'Round about the time Queen Victoria began to overtake the Blessed Mother in the world's affections ...
I don't think there are many paintings of Queen Victoria doing this with ecstatic admirers.

 

Porter ODoran

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Not the same subject, at all, but just wait till you folks find the depictions of the Child Jesus holding his penis, which were quite prevalent for centuries in the West.
 

hecma925

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Porter ODoran said:
Not the same subject, at all, but just wait till you folks find the depictions of the Child Jesus holding his penis, which were quite prevalent for centuries in the West.
Art class in college was boring.
 

mike

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Peacemaker said:
Joha said:
Porter ODoran said:
Starting about 1800 Europe started to censor a lot of things like that.
My first thought was: I wonder what is stranger, the Icon or the culture that finds it strange.
So the "european culture" it is. Strange Europeans...
Well it's the Theotokos so for me I don't picture her like that. I don't know how to explain it, her breast is hanging out. I know that's a natural thing for a mother to do with her shild. I guess it has something to due with the honor we give her that makes it weird to see. Then again, there are icons of Christ being baptized naked in Jordan so who knows *shrug*
We have a thread for people like you: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48580.0.html

Porter ODoran said:
Not the same subject, at all, but just wait till you folks find the depictions of the Child Jesus holding his penis, which were quite prevalent for centuries in the West.
And how do you think, He was peeing.
 

LenInSebastopol

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Porter ODoran said:
Not the same subject, at all, but just wait till you folks find the depictions of the Child Jesus holding his penis, which were quite prevalent for centuries in the West.
All male human baby do such; again, no biggie.
Gad Zooks, we got body parts all over the place! :)
 

Porter ODoran

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No, the images were meant to hold up for veneration the first shedding of blood of the Christ for us (namely, his circumcision). There were cults of the "first wound" as there would later be cults of the "sacred heart" and so forth.
 

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^ I like this guy, his hair is like mine (besides the white). This man is going places *notices he is a saint* told you.  :laugh:
 

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Porter ODoran said:
No, the images were meant to hold up for veneration the first shedding of blood of the Christ for us (namely, his circumcision). There were cults of the "first wound" as there would later be cults of the "sacred heart" and so forth.
Yep.
 

Volnutt

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Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
No, the images were meant to hold up for veneration the first shedding of blood of the Christ for us (namely, his circumcision). There were cults of the "first wound" as there would later be cults of the "sacred heart" and so forth.
Yep.
A generation or so earlier, the Austrian nun Agnes Blannbekin "led a life devoted to the foreskin of Jesus". The study says: "She was obsessed by the loss of blood and the pain which the redeemer had suffered during his circumcision. On one occasion, when she was moved to tears by the thought of this suffering, she suddenly felt the foreskin on her tongue.
Yeah, I could have gone my entire life without knowing that.
 

Volnutt

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Is there a canon about showing the Theotokos within the Burning Bush?





I understand the theology behind it, but it seems like it could misleadingly imply that she was the one speaking to Moses through the bush.

Especially in this Coptic version where she's depicted without Christ, though I'm guessing the rules are different there. Do any OO know if this is a canonical image?



 

mike

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What is the Theotokos on Intercession frescoe in the left wearing? It looks not unlike epitrachelion and omophorion.

http://www.orthphoto.net/photo.php?id=83748&id_jezyk=1
 

Pravoslavac

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It says - saint new-martyr by NATO, Milica the child.



- Her fresco in monastery of Dormition of the Theotokos in city Trebinje, Herzegovina.

Milica Rakic is 3 years old girl killed by US air-force in her apartment during NATO aggression against Yugoslavia in 1999. She is considered to be canonized by the Serbian Orthodox Church.





According to the law of the Serbian Orthodox Church, a person to be canonized for saint needs to meet at least one of next criteria : martyr death, to gain cult among People, occurrence of a miracle, or saint's body to be blessed - incorrupt relics.
 

Porter ODoran

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Pravoslavac said:
She is considered to be canonized by the Serbian Orthodox Church.
According to the law of the Serbian Orthodox Church, a person to be canonized for saint needs to meet at least one of next criteria : martyr death, to gain cult among People, occurrence of a miracle, or saint's body to be blessed - incorrupt relics.
In other words, she's not "considered to be canonized" in any official way.
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Pravoslavac said:
She is considered to be canonized by the Serbian Orthodox Church.
According to the law of the Serbian Orthodox Church, a person to be canonized for saint needs to meet at least one of next criteria : martyr death, to gain cult among People, occurrence of a miracle, or saint's body to be blessed - incorrupt relics.
In other words, she's not "considered to be canonized" in any official way.
Bishop Atanasije Jeftic, known as the theologian of the Serbian Church, suggested her canonization.
 

Volnutt

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By all means please canonize her, her death was a tragedy. But please don't abuse her memory by using her as a club against NATO.

The Church needs to be above political squabbles and teach that war is a tragedy regardless of which side is "right."
 

Pravoslavac

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Volnutt said:
By all means please canonize her, her death was a tragedy. But please don't abuse her memory by using her as a club against NATO.

The Church needs to be above political squabbles and teach that war is a tragedy regardless of which side is "right."
We should demonize NATO. After all NATO is grave digger of Orthodox Christians around the world. Just as we demonized early Roman emperors for killing Christians.
 

LenInSebastopol

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We can demonize any group of killers, as they are not a respecter of life anywhere.
The NATO group does not specify killing Orthodox because they are Christians. It is not against the law to be so.
Though there are groups of killers that wish to kill Jews & Christians and different Muslims for such.

Lord, have mercy.
 

Pravoslavac

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LenInSebastopol said:
We can demonize any group of killers, as they are not a respecter of life anywhere.
The NATO group does not specify killing Orthodox because they are Christians. It is not against the law to be so.
Though there are groups of killers that wish to kill Jews & Christians and different Muslims for such.

Lord, have mercy.
NATO's imperialist politics ruined lives of Orthodox Christians in Bosnia, Kosovo, Syria, Ukraine, if they could, they would burn Russia to the ground. I know their goal is not Orthodox Christianity, but they always end up destabilizing countries with large Orthodox population.
 
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