Strange icons

Alpo

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orthonorm said:
Save for the whole dove thing.
I don't mind the dove but I'd like to see Christ depicted as a small adult.
 

Nephi

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Uncut Mountain Supply sells them under "religious paintings." It doesn't say who originally did them unfortunately, but refers to them as "Chinese silk paintings."

They have others (but apparently lack the Annunciation one) as well:

 

orthonorm

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Alpo said:
orthonorm said:
Save for the whole dove thing.
I don't mind the dove but I'd like to see Christ depicted as a small adult.
This makes the least sense possible. But hey, I am sure LBK will agree in part with both of us.
 

LBK

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Try this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,17565.0.html
 

Apples

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What are the the jury's thoughts on this one?

 

LBK

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William said:
What are the the jury's thoughts on this one?

Poking small printed icons into the frame of a larger one is nothing unusual. The photo of the little kid could be in memory of a child who died at a very young age. Fixing military insignia on the frame is a bit much, though.
 

LBK

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JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
IIRC this and similar neo-Stalinist abominations were covered in the "Schlock icons" thread.
 

Shanghaiski

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JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
 

LBK

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Shanghaiski said:
JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Very good, Grasshopper. Very good.  ;) :laugh: :laugh:
 

Apples

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LBK said:
William said:
What are the the jury's thoughts on this one?

Poking small printed icons into the frame of a larger one is nothing unusual. The photo of the little kid could be in memory of a child who died at a very young age. Fixing military insignia on the frame is a bit much, though.
I mean the style of the icon of Christ.
 

LBK

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William said:
LBK said:
William said:
What are the the jury's thoughts on this one?

Poking small printed icons into the frame of a larger one is nothing unusual. The photo of the little kid could be in memory of a child who died at a very young age. Fixing military insignia on the frame is a bit much, though.
I mean the style of the icon of Christ.
Falls short in many ways. Bland and anodyne, IMHO.
 

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rakovsky said:
DuxI,

Can you summarize what is in the interview? What is Vanga saying, and what is the bishop's response in the movie? Unfortunately I only know Russian, and all I clearly understood was that she said "this church is not good".

By the way, this surprisingly reminds me of a dream I had last night, where another teenager was walled inside a basement with a mural icon across another wall, and my friends and I were going to rescue him.

Vanga's dying wish was for her to be buried in the yard of her little house so that people could draw strength from her grave... The ‘Vanga' charity foundation decided to refuse her request and she was buried near the ‘St. Petka Bulgarian' church.
http://keramatad.com/english/landmarks-predela-hotel/rupite-st-petka-43
Well, the Metropolitan comes to Vanga to tells her that there are obstacles for the consecration of the church,  that the canons are clear and that they need to be respected, because the Church is one, and if she is member of the church, she must respect that. She then answers to him that his words come late, that there are two days late. and also says that even the first time when the Metropolitan came, said that this church is not good. Then she says all will be fixed, that the place is holy, a place were young people have died and that it is late to talk now (for changes) after which she starts saying to him that he is Bishop, that and that the church will be consecrated and blessed, a priest will be put, a keeper. Then she says that he must be soft as cotton and sweet as sugar (in Slavic languages, that means to be good and gentle). The Metropolitan says that the people around her are confusing her, she says to him the same. Then she says that she was visited by 300 people a day, and that his job is easy and starts talking about her past. The Metropolitan tries to explain that things are not so simple, but she continues to say that the church will be consecrated and makes plans for keeper. She mentioned also the entry of Christ at the Temple and his reaction towards the traders.  The Metropolitan again tries to explain the things in the church, she then says that she wants to go to bed. Then the Metropolitan says to the person that makes the interview about the situation when the Apostles were brought before the Jewish priests and that what is made by God will not fall, and by man, no matter how much tries, will be destroyed. He ends saying: if this temple is a reason for the soul of Vanga to be lost, it is better the temple to be gone!

Тhat is all for which Vanga spoke with the Metropolitan.
 

rakovsky

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DuxI said:
rakovsky said:
DuxI,

Can you summarize what is in the interview? What is Vanga saying, and what is the bishop's response in the movie? Unfortunately I only know Russian, and all I clearly understood was that she said "this church is not good".

By the way, this surprisingly reminds me of a dream I had last night, where another teenager was walled inside a basement with a mural icon across another wall, and my friends and I were going to rescue him.

Vanga's dying wish was for her to be buried in the yard of her little house so that people could draw strength from her grave... The ‘Vanga' charity foundation decided to refuse her request and she was buried near the ‘St. Petka Bulgarian' church.
http://keramatad.com/english/landmarks-predela-hotel/rupite-st-petka-43
Well, the Metropolitan comes to Vanga to tells her that there are obstacles for the consecration of the church,  that the canons are clear and that they need to be respected, because the Church is one, and if she is member of the church, she must respect that. She then answers to him that his words come late, that there are two days late. and also says that even the first time when the Metropolitan came, said that this church is not good. Then she says all will be fixed, that the place is holy, a place were young people have died and that it is late to talk now (for changes) after which she starts saying to him that he is Bishop, that and that the church will be consecrated and blessed, a priest will be put, a keeper. Then she says that he must be soft as cotton and sweet as sugar (in Slavic languages, that means to be good and gentle). The Metropolitan says that the people around her are confusing her, she says to him the same. Then she says that she was visited by 300 people a day, and that his job is easy and starts talking about her past. The Metropolitan tries to explain that things are not so simple, but she continues to say that the church will be consecrated and makes plans for keeper. She mentioned also the entry of Christ at the Temple and his reaction towards the traders.  The Metropolitan again tries to explain the things in the church, she then says that she wants to go to bed. Then the Metropolitan says to the person that makes the interview about the situation when the Apostles were brought before the Jewish priests and that what is made by God will not fall, and by man, no matter how much tries, will be destroyed. He ends saying: if this temple is a reason for the soul of Vanga to be lost, it is better the temple to be gone!

Тhat is all for which Vanga spoke with the Metropolitan.
Thank you for your very good explanation of this very interesting video. I had assumed that things were the other way around. I think someone here had said that Vanga did not want the icons the way they were. Plus, I noticed that she wanted to be buried by her house.

I don't know what to make of it. For example, was it organized by freemasons, for example, or just a home-grown group of "new agers"?
 

DuxI

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rakovsky said:
DuxI said:
rakovsky said:
DuxI,

Can you summarize what is in the interview? What is Vanga saying, and what is the bishop's response in the movie? Unfortunately I only know Russian, and all I clearly understood was that she said "this church is not good".

By the way, this surprisingly reminds me of a dream I had last night, where another teenager was walled inside a basement with a mural icon across another wall, and my friends and I were going to rescue him.

Vanga's dying wish was for her to be buried in the yard of her little house so that people could draw strength from her grave... The ‘Vanga' charity foundation decided to refuse her request and she was buried near the ‘St. Petka Bulgarian' church.
http://keramatad.com/english/landmarks-predela-hotel/rupite-st-petka-43
Well, the Metropolitan comes to Vanga to tells her that there are obstacles for the consecration of the church,  that the canons are clear and that they need to be respected, because the Church is one, and if she is member of the church, she must respect that. She then answers to him that his words come late, that there are two days late. and also says that even the first time when the Metropolitan came, said that this church is not good. Then she says all will be fixed, that the place is holy, a place were young people have died and that it is late to talk now (for changes) after which she starts saying to him that he is Bishop, that and that the church will be consecrated and blessed, a priest will be put, a keeper. Then she says that he must be soft as cotton and sweet as sugar (in Slavic languages, that means to be good and gentle). The Metropolitan says that the people around her are confusing her, she says to him the same. Then she says that she was visited by 300 people a day, and that his job is easy and starts talking about her past. The Metropolitan tries to explain that things are not so simple, but she continues to say that the church will be consecrated and makes plans for keeper. She mentioned also the entry of Christ at the Temple and his reaction towards the traders.  The Metropolitan again tries to explain the things in the church, she then says that she wants to go to bed. Then the Metropolitan says to the person that makes the interview about the situation when the Apostles were brought before the Jewish priests and that what is made by God will not fall, and by man, no matter how much tries, will be destroyed. He ends saying: if this temple is a reason for the soul of Vanga to be lost, it is better the temple to be gone!

Тhat is all for which Vanga spoke with the Metropolitan.
Thank you for your very good explanation of this very interesting video. I had assumed that things were the other way around. I think someone here had said that Vanga did not want the icons the way they were. Plus, I noticed that she wanted to be buried by her house.

I don't know what to make of it. For example, was it organized by freemasons, for example, or just a home-grown group of "new agers"?
You are welcome.
Yes, that was her wish, but the foundation did not respect it, and buried her near the church.
The pictures in the church were made by Светлин Русев (Svetlin Rusev), the man with the glasses in the video, working in the church. I do not know what to say too, because i do not know much about this person.
I know more about Vanga, but from my family, they went to ask her something, and i can just say that really she knew things that ordinary people did not...
 

rakovsky

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DuxI said:
I know more about Vanga, but from my family, they went to ask her something, and i can just say that really she knew things that ordinary people did not...
That sounds very interesting, and I would like to hear more about it.

Perhaps the best explanation is that she was not a bad person, and was a person with a gift, but also was not an extremely holy person either like we normally associate with the gifts.

I don't see anything proving she was bad. And I allow that religious customs and styles change. Perhaps some of the Old Believers' ways were better. On the other hand, I am confused why, if she was a holy person she would not follow the bishops' strong advice, especially when it comes to a matter of "church business"- like building a church.
 

rakovsky

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Here is a scene from the recent Russian or Ukrainian movie Viy:


The original 1967 movie Viy was filmed in an abandoned cossack church.
 

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LBK said:
Shanghaiski said:
JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Very good, Grasshopper. Very good.  ;) :laugh: :laugh:
The original Man of Steel needs some irony in his iconography.
 

rakovsky

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rakovsky said:
DuxI said:
I know more about Vanga, but from my family, they went to ask her something, and i can just say that really she knew things that ordinary people did not...
That sounds very interesting, and I would like to hear more about it.

Perhaps the best explanation is that she was not a bad person, and was a person with a gift, but also was not an extremely holy person either like we normally associate with the gifts.

I don't see anything proving she was bad. And I allow that religious customs and styles change. Perhaps some of the Old Believers' ways were better. On the other hand, I am confused why, if she was a holy person she would not follow the bishops' strong advice, especially when it comes to a matter of "church business"- like building a church.
Dear DuxI,

I recommend taking this conversation from Strange Icons to the Vanga thread here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43761.0.html
 

orthonorm

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Shanghaiski said:
JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Fantastic. And who you calling snarky?
 

LBK

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orthonorm said:
Shanghaiski said:
JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Fantastic. And who you calling snarky?
Wit and snark are not the same thing.
 

podkarpatska

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^Whether a comment is "snark" or "wit" typically can be found in the ear of the listener or reader, as the case may be.  I came across a brief piece on this subject a few years back, written by an upstate NY reporter.

"When Dorothy Parker said “She runs the gamut of emotions from A to B.” It was funny, biting and witty.
But you don’t hear that style of “funny” as much any more.
Rather what you read in newspapers & blogs and hear on television shows is just as mean, but without the, let’s call it, panache. And Snarky is Witty’s cheap, lazy cousin."

http://grammar.about.com/od/rs/g/Snark.htm

Wit is an art form. Snark is not.
 

LBK

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podkarpatska said:
^Whether a comment is "snark" or "wit" typically can be found in the ear of the listener or reader, as the case may be.  I came across a brief piece on this subject a few years back, written by an upstate NY reporter.

"When Dorothy Parker said “She runs the gamut of emotions from A to B.” It was funny, biting and witty.
But you don’t hear that style of “funny” as much any more.
Rather what you read in newspapers & blogs and hear on television shows is just as mean, but without the, let’s call it, panache. And Snarky is Witty’s cheap, lazy cousin."

http://grammar.about.com/od/rs/g/Snark.htm

Wit is an art form. Snark is not.
Precisely, my dear podkarpatska. Precisely.  :-* :laugh:
 

Nephi

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"The Hospitality of Abraham in the style of St. Alban’s Psalter, by Peter Murphy"

 

orthonorm

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LBK said:
orthonorm said:
Shanghaiski said:
JamesR said:


/thread

inb4crazyoldbrainwashedrussianscomein
Somewhere here I have discussed how this is not a proper canonical icon of Stalin. For one, there is no record he ever was a bishop. Instead, he should be portrayed in uniform. His death was under mysterious circs, so it could be martyrdom, but it works better if he's holding a scroll with some text of his voluminous writings. Or he could be depicted holding the cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Fantastic. And who you calling snarky?
Wit and snark are not the same thing.
Please stick to adjudicating what you think are proper icons and stay away from humor. You do a poor enough job of the former in spite of all your expertise. I can't imagine what would become of the world, if we had to wait for you to OK every attempt at wit.
 

orthonorm

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Nephi said:
"The Hospitality of Abraham in the style of St. Alban’s Psalter, by Peter Murphy"

LBK ain't going to like this because although you can't depict God the Father as an "old man" nor at all, you can depict Him as a man in this particular icon. Making the icon so precise to bring out the noetic nature of the visitors to Abraham I think means you can no longer have your Trinity cake and eat it to.
 

Nephi

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orthonorm said:
LBK ain't going to like this because although you can't depict God the Father as an "old man" nor at all, you can depict Him as a man in this particular icon. Making the icon so precise to bring out the noetic nature of the visitors to Abraham I think means you can no longer have your Trinity cake and eat it to.
It seems almost the exact same as any other Hospitality icon, except the stylistic differences. So what do you mean? This seems to do what you're saying a bit more:

 

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Nephi said:
orthonorm said:
LBK ain't going to like this because although you can't depict God the Father as an "old man" nor at all, you can depict Him as a man in this particular icon. Making the icon so precise to bring out the noetic nature of the visitors to Abraham I think means you can no longer have your Trinity cake and eat it to.
It seems almost the exact same as any other Hospitality icon, except the stylistic differences. So what do you mean? This seems to do what you're saying a bit more:

"Style" is important, frankly I don't believe in such a thing. Maybe I am wrong, and LBK will think it is wonderful.

My argument goes to the Trinitarian interpretation of Rublev, which LBK AFAIK defends, and yet I cannot for the life of me understand. I mean I understand the reasons for the Trinitarian interpretation but not her breaking ranks with her absolute prohibition against depicting God the Father.

I could be wrong about all this. But when I've asked her about it before, she simply goes into tangential questioning mode.
 

Nephi

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Mor Ephrem said:
Interesting...all three angels in that icon have crosses in their halos.  Three Christs?  Did the Father and the Holy Spirit also die on the Cross? 
That's the only time I've seen a depiction like that. It seems the norm is to not have any crosses, but a Google search shows the middle one sometimes with a cross-halo:

 

LBK

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Nephi said:
Romanian, painted on glass. A centuries-old folk-art tradition. The original is probably tiny, hence the simple detailing. The artist in this case made a boo-boo when tracing the draft: the saint is blessing with his left hand. Ooops.  :eek: :)
 

LBK

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Michał Kalina said:
It was most likely a child's job.
Not at all "most likely". The simple, naive style and wobbly draftsmanship could just as easily come from an inexperienced adult. I've seen many drawings and paintings over the years by adults with limited artistic ability which share the characteristics of this glass icon.
 

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Haven't seen this kind of color scheme before with all the black and yellow
 
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