Summing up

[Serge]

I tried Orthodoxy. I still use much of it, from prayers at home to church (Byzantine Catholic) at least once a month. If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce, held the fort against contraception, and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it, if it really was a universal church with a generations-old authentically Western rite/expression (Eastern Catholics are Eastern Christianity in Catholicism; Western Rite Orthodoxy is a small, convert phenomenon, not a living tradition), I'd be very impressed; it would challenge my faith.

In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss. Protestantism is a made-up faith.

 

[Mor Ephrem]

Cool!

 

[Arachne]

In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss.

Why bother with shade, when you can have the outer darkness? :

 

[NicholasMyra]

The mid. century British "theologian" pop writers were overhyped and offer no basis for rigorous or interesting thought.

 

[minasoliman]

Cool!

I think that's hot!

 

[Asteriktos]

In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss.

 

[Velsigne]

I tried Orthodoxy...

In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss. Protestantism is a made-up faith.

Good to know you found somewhere you fit in. 

I can't follow you there since the Roman Catholic priests and nuns and laity tortured and raped my family.

 

[thenerdpaul]

[quote author=The young fogey]
If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce[/quote]
Rome does too, but plays a name-game and pretends marriages sometimes decades old weren't even real.

[quote author=The young fogey]held the fort against contraception[/quote]
I'll admit that it is sad that us Orthodox Christians could do much better in this regard. But so could Francis and many other Roman Catholic bishops.

[quote author=The young fogey]and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it[/quote]
The irony is strong with this one. But this has been pointed out numerous times, and I'm afraid you're still repeating this meme as a valid critique.

[quote author=The young fogey]if it really was a universal church with a generations-old authentically Western rite/expression[/quote]
The Great Schism made that a little difficult.

[quote author=The young fogey]Western Rite Orthodoxy is a small, convert phenomenon, not a living tradition[/quote]
In this area I happen to agree with you. Culture though shouldn't trump truth for you. (Again, note the irony in your earlier critique).

[quote author=The young fogey]In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss.[/quote]
LOL.

[quote author=The young fogey]Protestantism is a made-up faith.[/quote]
True. So what though? Most here would probably agree with you on this particular point.

 

[Dominika]

I tried Orthodoxy.

Have you really tried? Have you embraced it? Lived it? Including, actually, above all, the Holy Sacraments?

So, what are you doing on an Orthodox forum?

 

[rakovsky]

If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce, held the fort against contraception, and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it, if it really was a universal church with a generations-old authentically Western rite/expression (Eastern Catholics are Eastern Christianity in Catholicism; Western Rite Orthodoxy is a small, convert phenomenon, not a living tradition), I'd be very impressed;

What do you think is your number 1 thing?

Isn't Western Rite Orthodoxy more of a "living thing" than Eastern Catholicism was in the 16th century, since the W.R.Orthodox choose to be Orthodox voluntarily. If someone is forced into a religion, is that a real, "living" faith?

 

[Mor Ephrem]

I tried Orthodoxy.

Have you really tried? Have you embraced it? Lived it? Including, actually, above all, the Holy Sacraments?

So, what are you doing on an Orthodox forum?

Seeking attention.

 

[Volnutt]

I tried Orthodoxy. I still use much of it, from prayers at home to church (Byzantine Catholic) at least once a month. If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce, held the fort against contraception,

Isn't this kind of a case of

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own lord he standeth or falleth. And he shall stand: for God is able to make him stand."

Especially given the preponderance of liberalizing Catholic bishops (which I notice have somehow not driven you into sedevacantism). Why not focus on your own faith and let God sort the bishops, remarried, and users of contraception out?

and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it,

By the same measure isn't that what Byzcath is? I could just as easily argue that it's idolatrous for all these cultures to insist on their sui iuris special privileges and not just shut up and learn Latin.

In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss. Protestantism is a made-up faith.

What about the Old Catholics? What about the Sedes?

 

[Volnutt]

If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce, held the fort against contraception, and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it, if it really was a universal church with a generations-old authentically Western rite/expression (Eastern Catholics are Eastern Christianity in Catholicism; Western Rite Orthodoxy is a small, convert phenomenon, not a living tradition), I'd be very impressed;

What do you think is your number 1 thing?

Isn't Western Rite Orthodoxy more of a "living thing" than Eastern Catholicism was in the 16th century, since the W.R.Orthodox choose to be Orthodox voluntarily. If someone is forced into a religion, is that a real, "living" faith?

Good point.

 

[Deacon Lance]

If it didn't practice remarriage after divorce, held the fort against contraception, and was more than an idealization of Byzantine culture shading into idolatry of it, if it really was a universal church with a generations-old authentically Western rite/expression (Eastern Catholics are Eastern Christianity in Catholicism; Western Rite Orthodoxy is a small, convert phenomenon, not a living tradition), I'd be very impressed;

What do you think is your number 1 thing?

Isn't Western Rite Orthodoxy more of a "living thing" than Eastern Catholicism was in the 16th century, since the W.R.Orthodox choose to be Orthodox voluntarily. If someone is forced into a religion, is that a real, "living" faith?

Stop believing the propaganda.  Do you think if we were forced we would have developed such a fierce loyalty in such a short span of time?

 

[WPM]

The question of 'why be Orthodox?' what does it mean? etc.

 

[thenerdpaul]

fierce loyalty

hundreds of parishes join the Orthodox Church once they leave the Old World

 

[Deacon Lance]

fierce loyalty

hundreds of parishes join the Orthodox Church once they leave the Old World

After they were mistreated by the Latin bishops here, not before.  During the Communist era thousands were martyred rather than join the Orthodox Church.

 

[Sharbel]

I tried Orthodoxy. I still use much of it, from prayers at home to church (Byzantine Catholic) at least once a month...

You call this trying Orthodoxy?  No, you most definitely did not try Orthodoxy.

[quote author=The young fogey]
In Christianity, it's Rome or the abyss. Protestantism is a made-up faith.
[/quote]
The more distant a community puts itself from the faith of the Apostles, through either development or reform of doctrine, it just wanders away. 

 

[Volnutt]

fierce loyalty

hundreds of parishes join the Orthodox Church once they leave the Old World

After they were mistreated by the Latin bishops here, not before.

Fogey's position would seem to imply that the Latin bishops were doing the right thing. According to him, it would be allowing the Byzcaths to idolize their own culture.

 

[thenerdpaul]

fierce loyalty

hundreds of parishes join the Orthodox Church once they leave the Old World

After they were mistreated by the Latin bishops here, not before.  During the Communist era thousands were martyred rather than join the Orthodox Church.

Hmm. I did some quick searching and most of the stuff online I found were about some people who had been either heavily Latinized or were clergy. However, I did find a book that might be on this from a Ukrainian studies group that seems to be on this. Do you know of any online citations you can provide?