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The booted One

jewish voice

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I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
 

minasoliman

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What happened?

To me personally, I'm not laughing, and I do feel for you, as I can only imagine what it would feel like to be ostracized.  What was the argument about?  Was the argument during a lecture/sermon or just a simple casual conversation?

I can't say we Orthodox Christians are a rosy bunch.  I've heard of similar stories, some I felt was unfair.  But I am inspired by some of them who kept their resolve and resilience in their faith, and I can't help but see in them a great example of Christ, who brings many to vindication later in life.  One of them is Dr. George Bebawy.
 

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minasoliman said:
What happened?

To me personally, I'm not laughing, and I do feel for you, as I can only imagine what it would feel like to be ostracized.  What was the argument about?  Was the argument during a lecture/sermon or just a simple casual conversation?

I can't say we Orthodox Christians are a rosy bunch.  I've heard of similar stories, some I felt was unfair.  But I am inspired by some of them who kept their resolve and resilience in their faith, and I can't help but see in them a great example of Christ, who brings many to vindication later in life.  One of them is Dr. George Bebawy.
was at the lunch after. They were talking about Isis and someone started saying that it was the west and Jews pulling this off to make Islam look bad. I couldn't let that slide that was just an out right ignorant statement. Got kinda heated debate  I must say.
 

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I have gotten "kicked out" of churches before. Not really officially, but I have been removed from ministry positions, and was not allowed to discuss certain topics.

Generally it has been because the church/pastor held certain beliefs that one was not allowed to question or act against. Ironically (to me anyway) it has been a Baptist church where it happened several times. The beliefs involved such things as me thinking that fasting might be appropriate, me not being as anti-alchol as they were (I would not have been allowed to work in a grocery store, for example, since grocers sold alcohol), me supporting a pastor who taught that women should wear dresses (the dresses were not the issue), and my thinking that God could guide His people. (I was offered psychological counseling for that one.)

I was removed from any opportunity for ministry of any kind in a non-denominational church because I was having marital problems once.

Various places can be very intolerant.

One more thing comes to mind. This wasn't being "kicked out" but I did upset someone once. Back in the early days of internet communication, I met a very interesting man who was a Jewish rabbi (I think?) online. We had many good discussions, and he taught me a great many things. Then one day he realized I was female (my "name" was Psalm 27:1 so it wasn't gender-specific) and he became extremely angry, saying he didn't know I was a woman and that it was forbidden to discuss such things with women and teach them. I hadn't realized it mattered. I never intended to deceive him. He never asked. And I never heard from him again. But your question sparked that memory.
 

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"They were talking about Isis and someone started saying that it was the west and Jews pulling this off to make Islam look bad. I couldn't let that slide that was just an out right ignorant statement."

There was somebody on these boards who was saying something like that not too long ago. It was on a thread I started (which was about the hypothetical scenario of Rome picking an Eastern-Rite pope, and had nothing to do with ISIS). Needless to say I wasn't too happy about one of my first threads getting hijacked with that kind of stuff.
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
What happened?

To me personally, I'm not laughing, and I do feel for you, as I can only imagine what it would feel like to be ostracized.  What was the argument about?  Was the argument during a lecture/sermon or just a simple casual conversation?

I can't say we Orthodox Christians are a rosy bunch.  I've heard of similar stories, some I felt was unfair.  But I am inspired by some of them who kept their resolve and resilience in their faith, and I can't help but see in them a great example of Christ, who brings many to vindication later in life.  One of them is Dr. George Bebawy.
was at the lunch after. They were talking about Isis and someone started saying that it was the west and Jews pulling this off to make Islam look bad. I couldn't let that slide that was just an out right ignorant statement. Got kinda heated debate  I must say.
Well you are more than welcome to debate with us here.  You know that ;)
 

jewish voice

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Anna.T said:
I have gotten "kicked out" of churches before. Not really officially, but I have been removed from ministry positions, and was not allowed to discuss certain topics.

Generally it has been because the church/pastor held certain beliefs that one was not allowed to question or act against. Ironically (to me anyway) it has been a Baptist church where it happened several times. The beliefs involved such things as me thinking that fasting might be appropriate, me not being as anti-alchol as they were (I would not have been allowed to work in a grocery store, for example, since grocers sold alcohol), me supporting a pastor who taught that women should wear dresses (the dresses were not the issue), and my thinking that God could guide His people. (I was offered psychological counseling for that one.)

I was removed from any opportunity for ministry of any kind in a non-denominational church because I was having marital problems once.

Various places can be very intolerant.

One more thing comes to mind. This wasn't being "kicked out" but I did upset someone once. Back in the early days of internet communication, I met a very interesting man who was a Jewish rabbi (I think?) online. We had many good discussions, and he taught me a great many things. Then one day he realized I was female (my "name" was Psalm 27:1 so it wasn't gender-specific) and he became extremely angry, saying he didn't know I was a woman and that it was forbidden to discuss such things with women and teach them. I hadn't realized it mattered. I never intended to deceive him. He never asked. And I never heard from him again. But your question sparked that memory.
thanks for sharing your story with me. I know must of hurt at least it did me but think I'm more hurt that they wouldn't even admit that it was of their own doing and trying to pass the buck
 

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Don't let politics or other people to decide your religion for you. If there are idiots in some mosque, attend another mosque.
 

Maria

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Alpo said:
Don't let other people to decide your religion for you. If there are idiots in some mosque, attend another mosque.
Yes, there are possibly some lovely mosques out there, but during this time, it is more likely that some are even worse than the one from which Jewish Voice fled.

Why urge that he go from the frying pan into the fire?


Dear Jewish Voice,

Take a look around while you are healing. Visit an Orthodox Church. Read the book by Fr. James Bernstein, who was Jewish, is now a completed Jew, and who struggled to find the True Faith.  Know that I am praying for you, that you may be healed by Christ.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A133140011%2Cp_27%3AFr.%20A.%20James%20Bernstein
 

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Maria said:
Alpo said:
Don't let politics or other people to decide your religion for you. If there are idiots in some mosque, attend another mosque.
Yes, there are possibly some lovely mosques out there, but during this time, it is more likely that some are even worse than the one from which Jewish Voice fled.

Why urge that he go from the frying pan into the fire?
I'm not urging him/her to go anywhere. Just saying that no one should decide religious convictions based on bunch of morons. He/she obviously feels confused and alone and making hasty decisions while being confused and alone is a bad idea.
 

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jewish voice said:
Anna.T said:
I have gotten "kicked out" of churches before. Not really officially, but I have been removed from ministry positions, and was not allowed to discuss certain topics.

Generally it has been because the church/pastor held certain beliefs that one was not allowed to question or act against. Ironically (to me anyway) it has been a Baptist church where it happened several times. The beliefs involved such things as me thinking that fasting might be appropriate, me not being as anti-alchol as they were (I would not have been allowed to work in a grocery store, for example, since grocers sold alcohol), me supporting a pastor who taught that women should wear dresses (the dresses were not the issue), and my thinking that God could guide His people. (I was offered psychological counseling for that one.)

I was removed from any opportunity for ministry of any kind in a non-denominational church because I was having marital problems once.

Various places can be very intolerant.

One more thing comes to mind. This wasn't being "kicked out" but I did upset someone once. Back in the early days of internet communication, I met a very interesting man who was a Jewish rabbi (I think?) online. We had many good discussions, and he taught me a great many things. Then one day he realized I was female (my "name" was Psalm 27:1 so it wasn't gender-specific) and he became extremely angry, saying he didn't know I was a woman and that it was forbidden to discuss such things with women and teach them. I hadn't realized it mattered. I never intended to deceive him. He never asked. And I never heard from him again. But your question sparked that memory.
thanks for sharing your story with me. I know must of hurt at least it did me but think I'm more hurt that they wouldn't even admit that it was of their own doing and trying to pass the buck
You're welcome, and it did hurt. I tried to be charitable and see their reasoning and so on, but the fact that I remember it, and that some of them took me a while to get over - yes it hurt.

It sounds like what you were involved in was even more volatile, and for that I am sorry. It was bad enough when mine were couched in milder rebukes. I don't mean to say they were as traumatic, but only offered them since you had asked, and they were the experiences I have to share.

My prayers are with you. I can't tell you what to do, but I hope you find what you are looking for and what you need. It's a difficult situation you find yourself in. I pray for your healing, and that you find what you are seeking.

God bless. +++
 

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jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
 

jewish voice

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TheTrisagion said:
jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
I know that but the imam told me to take a break from the masjid that's like saying I'm not welcome. What priest would do that or rabbi none that I know off.
 

Maria

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jewish voice said:
TheTrisagion said:
jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
I know that but the imam told me to take a break from the masjid that's like saying I'm not welcome. What priest would do that or rabbi none that I know off.

My prayers. Most Holy Theotokos, save us.
 

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jewish voice said:
TheTrisagion said:
jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
I know that but the imam told me to take a break from the masjid that's like saying I'm not welcome. What priest would do that or rabbi none that I know off.
I had to look up what a masjid was, but I am very sorry to hear this. To actually suggest you don't come?

I am still praying for you ... I don't know rabbis well, but I'd be shocked if a priest said something like this.

 

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Oh, wow. That's awful. Lord have mercy.

At the age of 14 I was kicked out of the Presbyterian church my mother had raised me and my brother in, for essentially being difficult to deal with and what the youth group leaders there called a bad influence on the other kids. In truth they were probably right (I asked some questions about what they were teaching us that made them clearly uncomfortable, but then wouldn't drop them until I got an answer...which they were not going to give), but there were also extenuating circumstances they weren't sensitive to, like the fact that my mother had just died and I was very hurt, lost, and confused. So I did the kind of typical "teenage rebellion" stuff (e.g., dying my hair bright red and coming to church like that), and that didn't help. The youth leader (a man who I would guess was probably in his late 30s/early 40s at the time) actually called me a "poster boy for abortion"...to my face. In the church parking lot. And laughed about it. In front of adults and other kids. Suffice it to say by the time they told me not to come back, I wasn't exactly crestfallen.

Still, it's terrible what people do to one another. You have my sympathies for what little they are worth. While it was wrong of the imam to attempt to control the situation in that way (why ostracize someone who is already feeling at odds in some ways with others in the congregation?), perhaps his advice was not necessarily bad in that this time away can give you the opportunity to figure out who you really are and what you really believe, as your new profile pic suggests. It is easy to convert and be convinced that we have found the most true/real/pure _____ (whatever), but harder to know that within ourselves once that initial zealotry wears off, particularly when faced with the reality that even the most true/real/pure religion or church or philosophy is still made up of just average, everyday people, who are generally not true, real, or pure (though hopefully we are all trying to be). May the love of God be with you, no matter what you do from here on out.
 

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Anna.T said:
jewish voice said:
TheTrisagion said:
jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
I know that but the imam told me to take a break from the masjid that's like saying I'm not welcome. What priest would do that or rabbi none that I know off.
I had to look up what a masjid was, but I am very sorry to hear this. To actually suggest you don't come?

I am still praying for you ... I don't know rabbis well, but I'd be shocked if a priest said something like this.
to me it feels like they all think I'm am Israeli spy which could turn out bad for me  :eek:
 

Maria

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jewish voice said:
Anna.T said:
jewish voice said:
TheTrisagion said:
jewish voice said:
I don't know how to say this you all might laugh or think I'm not telling the truth. I got booted from Islam in a way the other day  :'(  I was kinda told by many in the masjid not to come back as they feel I might be IDF under cover.

Pretty much how I debate on these forums I do in real life. I don't let people miss quote or miss represent something I normally have to call it out. I guess my big mouth got me booted  :laugh:
I really don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess you won't be seeing me defend Islam anymore. I guess my new profile pic says it all cause I really feel this way who am I now. I know people can't kick you from your beliefs but  I've never been kicked from the place of worship ever in my life time. Has anyone here ever have that happen to them ? What did you do? Pls share if you have.
I'm sorry to hear that.  :'(  I would suggest Christianity, but I agree with Alpo that you ought not change religions just because some of the people of that faith are idiots. I hope you are able to heal from this experience and find another place where you feel welcome.
I know that but the imam told me to take a break from the masjid that's like saying I'm not welcome. What priest would do that or rabbi none that I know off.
I had to look up what a masjid was, but I am very sorry to hear this. To actually suggest you don't come?

I am still praying for you ... I don't know rabbis well, but I'd be shocked if a priest said something like this.
to me it feels like they all think I'm am Israeli spy which could turn out bad for me  :eek:
Exactly. Lord have mercy. Hope they do not know where you live.
 

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dzheremi said:
Oh, wow. That's awful. Lord have mercy.

At the age of 14 I was kicked out of the Presbyterian church my mother had raised me and my brother in, for essentially being difficult to deal with and what the youth group leaders there called a bad influence on the other kids. In truth they were probably right (I asked some questions about what they were teaching us that made them clearly uncomfortable, but then wouldn't drop them until I got an answer...which they were not going to give), but there were also extenuating circumstances they weren't sensitive to, like the fact that my mother had just died and I was very hurt, lost, and confused. So I did the kind of typical "teenage rebellion" stuff (e.g., dying my hair bright red and coming to church like that), and that didn't help. The youth leader (a man who I would guess was probably in his late 30s/early 40s at the time) actually called me a "poster boy for abortion"...to my face. In the church parking lot. And laughed about it. In front of adults and other kids. Suffice it to say by the time they told me not to come back, I wasn't exactly crestfallen.

Still, it's terrible what people do to one another. You have my sympathies for what little they are worth. While it was wrong of the imam to attempt to control the situation in that way (why ostracize someone who is already feeling at odds in some ways with others in the congregation?), perhaps his advice was not necessarily bad in that this time away can give you the opportunity to figure out who you really are and what you really believe, as your new profile pic suggests. It is easy to convert and be convinced that we have found the most true/real/pure _____ (whatever), but harder to know that within ourselves once that initial zealotry wears off, particularly when faced with the reality that even the most true/real/pure religion or church or philosophy is still made up of just average, everyday people, who are generally not true, real, or pure (though hopefully we are all trying to be). May the love of God be with you, no matter what you do from here on out.
thanks for the reply and yes I agree I'm taking this time to see if I was easley converted and if it was really the right move that I had done. Thanks for the prayers
 

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When I was in 8th grade and attending a private Christian school I was excluded from participating in the religious things because of a work-related feud that my father--who worked there at the time--was having with one of the pastors in the staff. It didn't bother me much, given I was already the ultra rebellious 12-14 year old who wore black clothing, constantly questioned what we were being taught, and was naturally pessimistic about Protestantism (which I falsely interpreted as being all Christianity). But perhaps it was more painful when the attractive little 15 year old Asian girl I liked stopped talking to me because, according to her own testimony, her father--who was one of the pastors at our Church/School--told her that I was bad news who inherited "Generational Sin" and that she shouldn't interact with me. These are the same people who FIRED a 5th grade teacher for confiding to one of the pastors that she was struggling with a returning drinking problem after her son's incarceration in prison, and told a celibate gay man that he wasn't welcome in the congregation.

When I was 12 my parents literally threatened to disown me and said I'd go to Hell for expressing a childish interest in Buddhism and an allegorical interpretation of Creation like so many other dissatisfied Western youths that age. They tried to monitor the books I read make sure I didn't watch History or Science channel.

My lapsed Catholic/unaffiliated maternal grandmother often makes offensive comments about my Orthodoxy, although to be fair she's unpleasant and offensive toward everyone and everything.

Another memory that comes to mind is when in 8th grade they asked us to write our interpretation on an assigned Bible verse and I got called by the teachers at the end of class and was "reported" to my parents because I wrote something that contradicted what the Church believed.

I was also very much excluded and mistreated by the Pastors because they considered me sinful given that my mom had me at 15 before she was married. Sometimes they would give harsh lectures, sermons, or teaching sessions about the "evilness" of teen pregnancy and it appeared that they were almost doing it intentionally as a way to insult me and my family.
 

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"Generational sin"? Was the church you went to Pentecostal or something? A lot of Pentecostals have taken animistic ideas about "generational curses" and incorporated them into their theology.
 

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Minnesotan said:
"Generational sin"? Was the church you went to Pentecostal or something? A lot of Pentecostals have taken animistic ideas about "generational curses" and incorporated them into their theology.
It was "non denominational" Protestant but some of the Pastors there had some very bizarre beliefs. There was one Black pastor who had some strong Restorationist attitudes, using terms like "Jehovah" and "Jubilee" and advocating bizarre Churches affiliated with these beliefs. I think he was also non-Trinitarian. There were also two Asian pastors who believed in "Generational Sin" or something along those lines, and one--ironically the only one I got along with--female pastor who was very progressive, theologically liberal, and a feminist. Kinda Anglican-y. She had a strange obsession with me by constantly reading my essays out loud to the class and calling on me to answer questions. She was also the only teacher who ever gave me a 100% in her class just for being weird and non-traditional.

EDIT: The Black pastor would also occasionally speak in tongues at worship services.
 

Nikolaostheservant

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something must be seriously wrong with me, or something im not understanding. but the dud gets kicked out of islam and you (christiand and/or orthodox) all say, oh bo hoo im so sorry for you. Realy! somethig wrong with this picture.
 

minasoliman

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Nikolaostheservant said:
something must be seriously wrong with me, or something im not understanding. but the dud gets kicked out of islam and you (christiand and/or orthodox) all say, oh bo hoo im so sorry for you. Realy! somethig wrong with this picture.
It comes from a side of honesty.  We don't want to look like we are "snatching" someone who is hurt for the wrong reasons.  We try to show our sympathy.  If he honestly is lead into Orthodoxy of his own will and desire, then we are there for him.  But surely, you have to be sympathetic at how he was treated.

I can try to bring an example about some Copts I know who were ostracized.  And recently Fr. Dn. Andrei Kuraev has also been ostracized from the Russian Orthodox Church.  It happens even in our own, and many times unfairly.  We have examples of saints who were dealt with unfairly only for the fathers who condemned them to later beg for their forgiveness.

I don't know what you're complaining about, but you need to be honest and sympathetic when one is in pain.  We're not in the business of stealing a vulnerable soul, but comforting those who need comfort.  I see so far everything done "with this picture" is the epitome of Christian behavior.
 

dzheremi

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Nikolaostheservant said:
something must be seriously wrong with me, or something im not understanding. but the dud gets kicked out of islam and you (christiand and/or orthodox) all say, oh bo hoo im so sorry for you. Realy! somethig wrong with this picture.
I sympathize with someone being mistreated because I'm human and they're human, not because they're Orthodox or Muslim or whatever. Such divisions definitely do matter, but can and should be put aside to better deal with the reality of "Oh, this person is in pain; I know what being in pain is like, so I know this does not feel good." Since when should "I was hungry and you fed me" ever be replaced by "I was hungry, but you passed me over because I was not a Christian"? Do you really think it is somehow wrong to tell a sort-of-Muslim "I'm sorry that you were treated poorly by your imam; that was unfair and cruel"? Should we instead be glorying at his mistreatment, as though this is a good place from which to nudge him subtly or unsubtly to Orthodoxy? I don't think so. While not an exact parallel, I am reminded of the recent case of the Egyptian journalist turned Roman Catholic convert celebre Magdy Allam, who came to the RCC after struggling and finding much dissatisfaction with Islam, only to leave the RCC a little while later once it became clear to him that that church's stance on Islam was not strong enough for him (as was reported in the Catholic sources I was reading at the time, anyway). As people often tell potential converts to Orthodoxy to make sure that they are converting to something rather than away from something else, I would think it nothing less than a form of spiritual abuse to attempt to make a convert out of someone so freshly wounded by their experience in another religion.
 

Nikolaostheservant

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minasoliman said:
Nikolaostheservant said:
something must be seriously wrong with me, or something im not understanding. but the dud gets kicked out of islam and you (christiand and/or orthodox) all say, oh bo hoo im so sorry for you. Realy! somethig wrong with this picture.
It comes from a side of honesty.  We don't want to look like we are "snatching" someone who is hurt for the wrong reasons.  We try to show our sympathy.  If he honestly is lead into Orthodoxy of his own will and desire, then we are there for him.  But surely, you have to be sympathetic at how he was treated.

I can try to bring an example about some Copts I know who were ostracized.  And recently Fr. Dn. Andrei Kuraev has also been ostracized from the Russian Orthodox Church.  It happens even in our own, and many times unfairly.  We have examples of saints who were dealt with unfairly only for the fathers who condemned them to later beg for their forgiveness.

I don't know what you're complaining about, but you need to be honest and sympathetic when one is in pain.  We're not in the business of stealing a vulnerable soul, but comforting those who need comfort.  I see so far everything done "with this picture" is the epitome of Christian behavior.
Point taken and understood!

I see what you mean, thanks for helping me understand what is going on here.

Im sure by now you know im kinda...corse? abrasive? rude?

but thanks.
 

Nikolaostheservant

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dzheremi said:
Nikolaostheservant said:
something must be seriously wrong with me, or something im not understanding. but the dud gets kicked out of islam and you (christiand and/or orthodox) all say, oh bo hoo im so sorry for you. Realy! somethig wrong with this picture.
I sympathize with someone being mistreated because I'm human and they're human, not because they're Orthodox or Muslim or whatever. Such divisions definitely do matter, but can and should be put aside to better deal with the reality of "Oh, this person is in pain; I know what being in pain is like, so I know this does not feel good." Since when should "I was hungry and you fed me" ever be replaced by "I was hungry, but you passed me over because I was not a Christian"? Do you really think it is somehow wrong to tell a sort-of-Muslim "I'm sorry that you were treated poorly by your imam; that was unfair and cruel"? Should we instead be glorying at his mistreatment, as though this is a good place from which to nudge him subtly or unsubtly to Orthodoxy? I don't think so. While not an exact parallel, I am reminded of the recent case of the Egyptian journalist turned Roman Catholic convert celebre Magdy Allam, who came to the RCC after struggling and finding much dissatisfaction with Islam, only to leave the RCC a little while later once it became clear to him that that church's stance on Islam was not strong enough for him (as was reported in the Catholic sources I was reading at the time, anyway). As people often tell potential converts to Orthodoxy to make sure that they are converting to something rather than away from something else, I would think it nothing less than a form of spiritual abuse to attempt to make a convert out of someone so freshly wounded by their experience in another religion.
yup, thanks dzheremi i got it.
 
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