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The Christian view of living wills - removing the feeding tube

quietmorning

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Please, I beg, do not go polictical on this one, I am not in the political prvate forum (I have put my request in.) - this is very important - and I can't follow it there. . .so please keep this on a perspective of Christian Faith and Christian Ethics.  

Now - with that said.  My husband and I saw our lawyer this morning to complete our estate planning since he has cancer.  

We both filled out our Wills and our powers of attorney.  On the living will, it gave the choice of whether each of us would want a feeding tube removed if we are not able to recover from whatever is wrong.  

Needless to say, my husband and I had a pretty heated debate about what I wanted to put down.  I related that people with ALS and people who are quadriplegics often have feeding tubes.  His answer was that they could find some way to communicate.  I told him that they are doing studies currently that prove that some people in comas are fully alert, just locked into their body.  They are finding ways for people such as this to communicate - and probably will before too long.  

Then we went to the cost and the hardship it would put him through if I didn't was in a coma or a semi vegetative state - and I can see that. . . but I still didn't feel comfortable with it.  

By this morning, there were three things that popped into my head that gave me a stronger stance of deciding against having a feeding tube removed in order for me to die.  So, I didn't sign it and will not allow it.  But I can bet that the subject will come up again. 

Also, my husband's power of attorney can over ride this if it is 'for my benefit'. . .but from what I've seen in the debates in euthanasia, things can get pretty twisted to state it is for the benefit of the patient.  So that makes me nervous, to say the least.

How does the Church handle this question?  I've NEVER thought of the feeding tube and assumed that it could not be removed in order to cause someone in a coma to die. . .so needless to say, this is a brand new one on me.  (Me thinks I live under a rock or something of that nature.)

Thanks everyone!



 

WPM

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Catholic or Christian hospitals know the answer.
 

quietmorning

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Yes they do,  thank goodness. Unfortunately,  I don't have either with me in my living room to help to work this out to a place of peace (without my giving in and agreeing with him)  with my husband. 
 

Luke

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Can you ask your priest?
 

quietmorning

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Yes.  I think that will probably be the best way to go.  And after thinking about WPM'S answer,  I may make a visit to the local hospital to talk to their pastoral team. 

Thank you,  both.
 

biro

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Lord have mercy.
 

TheTrisagion

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If you don't feel comfortable with having a feeding tube removed, then I wouldn't agree to it.  Regardless of how much you might trust your husband/wife, it is your body and end of life issues should be for you and you alone (well, with God obviously) to decide.

For my own part, I wouldn't mind having a feeding tube removed on me, but I wouldn't want my wife's to be removed. I think it would be too hard on me thinking that I was the one who made the decision to let her die.  Nevertheless, that is her decision to make and I would never want to contradict that.

Lord, have mercy.
 

mabsoota

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you don't have to both agree to it.
he can sign to say he doesn't want one and you can sign to say you do.
no rush.

as i understand, you are not terminally ill, so you don't have to sort out your living will yet.
support your husband in his decisions and then leave it at that.
i am sure God will guide you when / if the time comes.
 

quietmorning

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When I posted this, my husband and I had already gone around the block on the thought that I would live with a feeding tube several times.  He did not agree with my choice, at all.  We got into quite a heated discussion about it.  The paperwork has turned in. . .hopefully I won't hear anything more about it.  Most of the time, however, when we don't agree, he brings it up again and again thinking he can change my mind.  

Sigh.  He never does (change my mind) . . . as all of these things have to do with my faith.  

With his battling cancer, however; this is the LAST thing I want to do.   Time is precious.

I think the best place for the strife at the moment - if it starts up again is prayer.  I thought that maybe I wanted a strong argument. . .but honestly, I GAVE him a strong argument. . . sometimes it's better to just pray and move on.  

Thanks, everyone.  Please keep us in your prayers over this.  

 

Maria

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quietmorning said:
When I posted this, my husband and I had already gone around the block on the thought that I would live with a feeding tube several times.  He did not agree with my choice, at all.  We got into quite a heated discussion about it.  The paperwork has turned in. . .hopefully I won't hear anything more about it.  Most of the time, however, when we don't agree, he brings it up again and again thinking he can change my mind.  

Sigh.  He never does (change my mind) . . . as all of these things have to do with my faith.  

With his battling cancer, however; this is the LAST thing I want to do.   Time is precious.

I think the best place for the strife at the moment - if it starts up again is prayer.  I thought that maybe I wanted a strong argument. . .but honestly, I GAVE him a strong argument. . . sometimes it's better to just pray and move on.  

Thanks, everyone.  Please keep us in your prayers over this.  
My prayers.

Be strong. We never know what will happen in the future.
Tonight may be my last night on earth. We just do not know.
Thus, we need to pray and act as if today will be our last day.

Know that I am praying for you.

Lovingly in Christ,
Maria
 

quietmorning

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Maria said:
quietmorning said:
When I posted this, my husband and I had already gone around the block on the thought that I would live with a feeding tube several times.  He did not agree with my choice, at all.  We got into quite a heated discussion about it.  The paperwork has turned in. . .hopefully I won't hear anything more about it.  Most of the time, however, when we don't agree, he brings it up again and again thinking he can change my mind.  

Sigh.  He never does (change my mind) . . . as all of these things have to do with my faith.  

With his battling cancer, however; this is the LAST thing I want to do.   Time is precious.

I think the best place for the strife at the moment - if it starts up again is prayer.  I thought that maybe I wanted a strong argument. . .but honestly, I GAVE him a strong argument. . . sometimes it's better to just pray and move on.  

Thanks, everyone.  Please keep us in your prayers over this.  
My prayers.

Be strong. We never know what will happen in the future.
Tonight may be my last night on earth. We just do not know.
Thus, we need to pray and act as if today will be our last day.

Know that I am praying for you.

Lovingly in Christ,
Maria
Thank you for reminding me of this, Maria. . . it's a good thing to remember.  Usually I use the thought of it being my last day on earth when I go to bed to help me to review sins and bring them to Him and ask forgiveness.  Things have been so busy and there has been so much to do, that I have completely forgotten this important tool. . . and oddly, comfort.  Thank you for reminding me. :)

 

minasoliman

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In my humble opinion, I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this question yet.  But speaking as someone who has seen these discussions in action, removing a feeding tube, dnr/dni, refusing treatment does not equate euthanasia (usually at least).  But there are times when one feels strongly that you might get better that these options seem to be sticky and tough to deal with.  But for terminal illnesses, the favor tends to be removing feeding tube, etc.  In these cases, the job of the physician is to make you comfortable.  So they will give you as much pain medication you need and as much lubricant you want for your mucosal tissues, especially your gums and lips.  The goal is not to kill you, but to keep you pain-free.  That is the job of palliative physicians.  Your doctor will explain these things in further detail, but from my vantage point, these are the things to keep in mind.

One time a Coptic priest, who used to be a physician, told a story about a woman who pretty much told him she was read to die.  She was fully conscious, but she had a terminal illness and was on life support.  The priest took her confessions, prayed the unction on her, and gave her the Eucharist.  She said goodbye to her family, and she passed away in peace.  These situations require a physician who is well-informed of your faith and a priest who is well-informed of the medical issues (it does not of course have to be a doctor as in my example, but someone who is experienced in these things).  I think that's the best people to talk to, to comfort you along the way with your decisions.  And of course, whatever you decide is still respected.

God bless you.
 

quietmorning

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minasoliman said:
In my humble opinion, I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this question yet.  But speaking as someone who has seen these discussions in action, removing a feeding tube, dnr/dni, refusing treatment does not equate euthanasia (usually at least).  But there are times when one feels strongly that you might get better that these options seem to be sticky and tough to deal with.  But for terminal illnesses, the favor tends to be removing feeding tube, etc.  In these cases, the job of the physician is to make you comfortable.  So they will give you as much pain medication you need and as much lubricant you want for your mucosal tissues, especially your gums and lips.  The goal is not to kill you, but to keep you pain-free.  That is the job of palliative physicians.  Your doctor will explain these things in further detail, but from my vantage point, these are the things to keep in mind.

One time a Coptic priest, who used to be a physician, told a story about a woman who pretty much told him she was read to die.  She was fully conscious, but she had a terminal illness and was on life support.  The priest took her confessions, prayed the unction on her, and gave her the Eucharist.  She said goodbye to her family, and she passed away in peace.  These situations require a physician who is well-informed of your faith and a priest who is well-informed of the medical issues (it does not of course have to be a doctor as in my example, but someone who is experienced in these things).  I think that's the best people to talk to, to comfort you along the way with your decisions.  And of course, whatever you decide is still respected.

God bless you.
Thank you Mina,

In my living will, I did put that I want to die naturally.  I do not want life support, etc.  The argument my husband I have is a semi-conscious or vegetative state where I can breathe on my own, and my heart is still beating with out support - and the only thing I need is a feeding tube.  There are too many unknowns about comas - semi/comas and vegetative states.  (This is ironic in that I wanted with everything I had to go into research for coma patients. . .but that's another long story.)

So. . . I do want to have a natural death.  I don't want extraordinary means. . . but even a new-born needs help to be fed. . .so I really have a hard time of being 'put out of my misery' because I can't feed myself.  That, to me is euthanasia. 

 

podkarpatska

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minasoliman said:
In my humble opinion, I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this question yet.  But speaking as someone who has seen these discussions in action, removing a feeding tube, dnr/dni, refusing treatment does not equate euthanasia (usually at least).  But there are times when one feels strongly that you might get better that these options seem to be sticky and tough to deal with.  But for terminal illnesses, the favor tends to be removing feeding tube, etc.  In these cases, the job of the physician is to make you comfortable.  So they will give you as much pain medication you need and as much lubricant you want for your mucosal tissues, especially your gums and lips.  The goal is not to kill you, but to keep you pain-free.  That is the job of palliative physicians.  Your doctor will explain these things in further detail, but from my vantage point, these are the things to keep in mind.

One time a Coptic priest, who used to be a physician, told a story about a woman who pretty much told him she was read to die.  She was fully conscious, but she had a terminal illness and was on life support.  The priest took her confessions, prayed the unction on her, and gave her the Eucharist.  She said goodbye to her family, and she passed away in peace.  These situations require a physician who is well-informed of your faith and a priest who is well-informed of the medical issues (it does not of course have to be a doctor as in my example, but someone who is experienced in these things).  I think that's the best people to talk to, to comfort you along the way with your decisions.  And of course, whatever you decide is still respected.

God bless you.
Thank you for your clarity. Discuss and plan such matters with your immediate family, your pastor and your physician. End of life planning is not equated with euthanasia and many of the "cause celebres" which have received media attention have been exploited by left or right for their own purposes. Talk it out before you or a loved one faces these choices. Decisions are best made not under the pressure of critical illness.
 

Crucifer

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Oh and kudos for taking care of this in advance. I've seen so many cases where someone didn't and it was hell for the family.
 

quietmorning

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podkarpatska said:
minasoliman said:
In my humble opinion, I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this question yet.  But speaking as someone who has seen these discussions in action, removing a feeding tube, dnr/dni, refusing treatment does not equate euthanasia (usually at least).  But there are times when one feels strongly that you might get better that these options seem to be sticky and tough to deal with.  But for terminal illnesses, the favor tends to be removing feeding tube, etc.  In these cases, the job of the physician is to make you comfortable.  So they will give you as much pain medication you need and as much lubricant you want for your mucosal tissues, especially your gums and lips.  The goal is not to kill you, but to keep you pain-free.  That is the job of palliative physicians.  Your doctor will explain these things in further detail, but from my vantage point, these are the things to keep in mind.

One time a Coptic priest, who used to be a physician, told a story about a woman who pretty much told him she was read to die.  She was fully conscious, but she had a terminal illness and was on life support.  The priest took her confessions, prayed the unction on her, and gave her the Eucharist.  She said goodbye to her family, and she passed away in peace.  These situations require a physician who is well-informed of your faith and a priest who is well-informed of the medical issues (it does not of course have to be a doctor as in my example, but someone who is experienced in these things).  I think that's the best people to talk to, to comfort you along the way with your decisions.  And of course, whatever you decide is still respected.

God bless you.
Thank you for your clarity. Discuss and plan such matters with your immediate family, your pastor and your physician. End of life planning is not equated with euthanasia and many of the "cause celebres" which have received media attention have been exploited by left or right for their own purposes. Talk it out before you or a loved one faces these choices. Decisions are best made not under the pressure of critical illness.
Those exploitations are what I'm worried about - in the sense of planning. . .but actually this is more about keeping peace in my home.  My husband has stage 4 throat cancer . . . and while I may die in my sleep tonight - or have a horrible accident that puts me in this state at any time. . .he is likely to precede me in death.  

As I've already stated my case in why I do not want to feeding tube removed - the future arguments will go back to the subject that time is precious - and each day is incredibly important - not to be wasted on vain arguments so that he can hope to change my mind when my mind has been made and we come from two completely different perspectives.  

If he is cured - then I will welcome him to bring up what ever argument - but just like my unwillingness to become an athiest. . .so I am unwilling to commit suicide.  
 

quietmorning

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Tallitot said:
Oh and kudos for taking care of this in advance. I've seen so many cases where someone didn't and it was hell for the family.
This past year has seen the very slow painful death of my father, the hospice comforted death of my sister in law, and three (more) cancer diagnoses.  My mother was left broken-hearted over the decisions she had to make for my father and is now ridden with guilt. 

This IS very important.  I'm glad that I know what Neal wants.  And I'm glad my children will know what I want.
 

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This is how we decided.

Did Jesus, the apostles, or pretty much every human in all of HISTORY have these options?  No... Not even Moses. :)

We make things complicated in all types of ways.  TOO complicated.

If it was good enough for all of humans to not have a breathing pump, feeding tubes, and an a 9 volt battery shocking their heart to keep it going - it's probably good enough for you.

In fact, go with the glass half full/empty argument.  Is it wrong to PREVENT God from taking you in the way he designed for you to go?
 

TheTrisagion

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So... many .... ways.... to refute that.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
So... many .... ways.... to refute that.
Exactly.    This is such a broad subject.

I deal with life and death (of animals and I know it's different) every day.  But honestly it is good to continually see that truly there is a time to be born and a time to die.

God's will be done.  What is it?  A feeding tube or not?  We'll never know.
 

Maria

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yeshuaisiam said:
This is how we decided.

Did Jesus, the apostles, or pretty much every human in all of HISTORY have these options?  No... Not even Moses. :)

We make things complicated in all types of ways.  TOO complicated.

If it was good enough for all of humans to not have a breathing pump, feeding tubes, and an a 9 volt battery shocking their heart to keep it going - it's probably good enough for you.

In fact, go with the glass half full/empty argument.  Is it wrong to PREVENT God from taking you in the way he designed for you to go?
You are right.

When a Catholic friend of mine had a terminally ill mother, she took her into her house rather than place her in a convalescent hospital or hospice.

It was an act of love because the mother wanted to die with her children and grandchildren surrounding her. She got her wish. Yes, it was difficult, but the grandchildren too turns eating with their grandmother, praying the rosary with her and reading stories or singing songs to her.

It made the family closer and appreciate life so much more. However, the police removed her body and sent it to the coroner even though she was under medical care. The tentative charge was "elder abuse" because she was so thin and could not eat the last few days of her life. After getting a lot of positive testimonies from friends, relatives, and professionals, the police finally dropped all charges and the family had a belated funeral.  It is a shame that her departure from this life could not have been more peaceful for her immediately family. Sheesh.

~~~~

When my father died, he also did not want to go to a convalescent hospital or a hospice.

He wanted to die in his own bed at home with his wife beside him. The visiting nurse had to make preparations for him to enter a hospice by Tuesday, but he prayed that Christ would take him before that time. He died early Monday morning. Thankfully, since I alerted my mom about the possibility of "elder abuse," the visiting nurse and my mom had all the paperwork necessary for the funeral home. The nurse was able to get the attending doctor to certify the death certificate without any problems.
 

TheTrisagion

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The same could be said for medicine in general, but it is commonly accepted that it is a good thing, even if Moses  wasnt popping antibiotics
 

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TheTrisagion said:
The same could be said for medicine in general, but it is commonly accepted that it is a good thing, even if Moses  wasnt popping antibiotics
Oh what have you started now...
 

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yeshuaisiam said:
TheTrisagion said:
So... many .... ways.... to refute that.
Exactly.    This is such a broad subject.

I deal with life and death (of animals and I know it's different) every day.  But honestly it is good to continually see that truly there is a time to be born and a time to die.
And you remind me of that song popular in the 60s.

Do you remember that one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

For everything there is a season.
A time to be born.
A time to die.
 

Maria

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A time of love (grant this, O Lord)
A time of hate (spare us, O Lord)
 

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No one before the Birth of Christ had the Kingdom of God walking in their presence, either...where the blind received their sight, and the dead were raised , and the lame walked...but Christ freely gave to those who believed and trusted Him.

So, I will trust Him.  I know I made the right decision according to how I am guided in His will for me.

There is a time to die, but it needs to be properly placed before Him.  I will not premeditate my dismissal... if He has other plans, I will know it soon enough.

 

LizaSymonenko

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If the feeding tube is there to assist the healing of the body, than by all means, put it in and leave it in, so that body can heal.

If however, the individual is brain-dead, etc....what is the point?

How is it God's will to leave this body lingering, and the soul trapped?  How do we know that God didn't mean for that person to die, and it is not His will for them to linger another 3 years on machines?

My family has talked about this at length.  If there is hope of healing/recovery...do whatever needs doing.  However, if the body will not heal, then let the soul go.  Stop fighting against God's will.  Ensure that all has been done for the soul and the body, and then turn the machines off....and pull out the Psalter and start praying.

This is exactly why we need to live each day as if it were our last.  Make peace with our enemies, ask forgiveness, let folks know we care about them, etc.  You never know when your time will come.  Be ready...always.

 

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LizaSymonenko said:
If the feeding tube is there to assist the healing of the body, than by all means, put it in and leave it in, so that body can heal.

If however, the individual is brain-dead, etc....what is the point?

How is it God's will to leave this body lingering, and the soul trapped?  How do we know that God didn't mean for that person to die, and it is not His will for them to linger another 3 years on machines?

My family has talked about this at length.  If there is hope of healing/recovery...do whatever needs doing.  However, if the body will not heal, then let the soul go.  Stop fighting against God's will.  Ensure that all has been done for the soul and the body, and then turn the machines off....and pull out the Psalter and start praying.

This is exactly why we need to live each day as if it were our last.  Make peace with our enemies, ask forgiveness, let folks know we care about them, etc.  You never know when your time will come.  Be ready...always.
End thread, no response will be more sensible than this.
 

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As I mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong answer to this question, not even in the faith.  I tend to follow Liza's approach, and so does my family, as well as many priests I know.  Nevertheless, I also take a position where I do respect the patient's wishes and to help the patient feel comfortable about whatever decision they make, and to be fully informed of ALL their options under legal and ethical standards.

Because of this, I think that is probably why many people argue heavily on this issue, and will leave in serious disagreements simply because each one has different ideas of "end of life" issues with all the technology we have today.  The best I can say is that removing the feeding tube is NOT euthanasia.  Euthanasia is something I am against.  To call removing the feeding tube "euthanasia" might make other people feel like they are "committing suicide" or "asking for homicide".  That is an unfair understanding of what it means to remove the feeding tube.  It's better to say, "I'm uncomfortable with the idea of removing", and I would respect and support your right in doing so, but otherwise, by law and by spirituality, I fully believe that removing the feeding tube is not euthanasia.
 

Maria

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minasoliman said:
As I mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong answer to this question, not even in the faith.  I tend to follow Liza's approach, and so does my family, as well as many priests I know.  Nevertheless, I also take a position where I do respect the patient's wishes and to help the patient feel comfortable about whatever decision they make, and to be fully informed of ALL their options under legal and ethical standards.

Because of this, I think that is probably why many people argue heavily on this issue, and will leave in serious disagreements simply because each one has different ideas of "end of life" issues with all the technology we have today.  The best I can say is that removing the feeding tube is NOT euthanasia.  Euthanasia is something I am against.  To call removing the feeding tube "euthanasia" might make other people feel like they are "committing suicide" or "asking for homicide".  That is an unfair understanding of what it means to remove the feeding tube.  It's better to say, "I'm uncomfortable with the idea of removing", and I would respect and support your right in doing so, but otherwise, by law and by spirituality, I fully believe that removing the feeding tube is not euthanasia.
While I agree with you that removing the feeding tube is not always euthanasia, in the case of Terri Schiavo, I honestly believe that the removal of her feeding tube was unethical.  

Frankly, I would not want one inserted into me in the first place.

However, I knew a woman who was near death and had to have a feeding tube for two months because she could not pass the swallowing test, but once she regained her health, her feeding tube was removed, and today she has learned how to walk, talk, bathe, and dress herself again. Her recovery is almost miraculous.

EDITED to add punctuation marks only.
 

Arachne

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The only such case I personally know about was a young man with terminal cancer, who only accepted a feeding tube because his wife was pregnant and he was determined to live to meet his daughter.

A couple of weeks after the birth, he simply told the McMillan nurse that he was ready, and that was that.

I can't bring myself to think it was anything but the right thing to do.
 

minasoliman

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Maria said:
minasoliman said:
As I mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong answer to this question, not even in the faith.  I tend to follow Liza's approach, and so does my family, as well as many priests I know.  Nevertheless, I also take a position where I do respect the patient's wishes and to help the patient feel comfortable about whatever decision they make, and to be fully informed of ALL their options under legal and ethical standards.

Because of this, I think that is probably why many people argue heavily on this issue, and will leave in serious disagreements simply because each one has different ideas of "end of life" issues with all the technology we have today.  The best I can say is that removing the feeding tube is NOT euthanasia.  Euthanasia is something I am against.  To call removing the feeding tube "euthanasia" might make other people feel like they are "committing suicide" or "asking for homicide".  That is an unfair understanding of what it means to remove the feeding tube.  It's better to say, "I'm uncomfortable with the idea of removing", and I would respect and support your right in doing so, but otherwise, by law and by spirituality, I fully believe that removing the feeding tube is not euthanasia.
While I agree with you that removing the feeding tube is not always euthanasia, in the case of Terri Schiavo, I honestly believe that the removal of her feeding tube was unethical.  

Frankly, I would not want one inserted into me in the first place.

However, I knew a woman who was near death and had to have a feeding tube for two months because she could not pass the swallowing test, but once she regained her health, her feeding tube was removed, and today she has learned how to walk, talk, bathe, and dress herself again. Her recovery is almost miraculous.

EDITED to add punctuation marks only.
I disagree with you on the Terri Schiavo case, but the last paragraph is an example of a case where even a physician would strongly disagree with the removal of a feeding tube because there seems to have been some hope that the patient will get better.  But when the prognosis is practically hopeless, as in the case of Terri Schiavo, if in fact Terri Schiavo would have wanted the feeding tube to be removed in a previous will, I would respect that and make sure Terri's last moments in life was as comfortable and painless as possible.
 

minasoliman

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J Michael said:
You may want to check this and this out.  I couldn't find an Orthodox equivalent.  :(
I looked through this, and was pleased to find this in its website:

When death is imminent one may refuse forms of treatment that would only result in a precarious and burdensome prolongation of life. There is a presumption in favor of continuing to provide food and water to the patient, but there is a stage in the dying process when even these may no longer be obligatory because they provide no benefit. Normal care always remains morally obligatory, but refusal of additional treatment when death is imminent is not equivalent to suicide. It should be seen instead as an expression of profound Christian hope in the life that is to come. An instruction not to provide such treatment, when communicated ahead of time to family and friends, may give great comfort to loved ones during emotionally stressful times.
source
 

Punch

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Well, the Church has already made it unethical for someone to put a bullet through my head to end the suffering, so thankfully she has not mandated that life be artificially prolonged.  I have made it clear to may family that I only be given treatment that stands a reasonable chance of curing me, not treatment that simply prolongs the suffering. 
 

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I am with mina on this one.  It is a personal choice - which is actually the problem, here.  It isn't whether to request to pull the tube or not, but whether or not my choice- will it be respected. . . . or will it ensue in unresolved argument.  I respect his choices.  They are the right choices for who he is.  I would like the same respect.  

Right now it is not an issue as to whether he will or won't pull the tube out the minute the doc says it is unlikely I will revive from a coma -  as he may well pass away before I do... but you never know.  This isn't the current issue at all.  The current issue is just simply getting the point across that this is my wish.  Period.  

When I step back from this, this is the same problem many people have - I can agree to disagree - and let him know that because I love him, his decisions are important to me and I will do everything in my power to uphold his choice.  

He would rather change my mind than agree to disagree.  I'm not going to.  So. . .the question isn't what to decide.  It's how to maintain peace in one's household when something so controversial is on the table.  
 

Maria

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quietmorning said:
I am with mina on this one.  It is a personal choice - which is actually the problem, here.  It isn't whether to request to pull the tube or not, but whether or not my choice- will it be respected. . . . or will it ensue in unresolved argument.  I respect his choices.  They are the right choices for who he is.  I would like the same respect.  

Right now it is not an issue as to whether he will or won't pull the tube out the minute the doc says it is unlikely I will revive from a coma -  as he may well pass away before I do... but you never know.  This isn't the current issue at all.  The current issue is just simply getting the point across that this is my wish.  Period.  

When I step back from this, this is the same problem many people have - I can agree to disagree - and let him know that because I love him, his decisions are important to me and I will do everything in my power to uphold his choice.  

He would rather change my mind than agree to disagree.  I'm not going to.  So. . .the question isn't what to decide.  It's how to maintain peace in one's household when something so controversial is on the table.  
My prayers.

When it comes to the faith, stand firm.

 

TheTrisagion

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quietmorning said:
I am with mina on this one.  It is a personal choice - which is actually the problem, here.  It isn't whether to request to pull the tube or not, but whether or not my choice- will it be respected. . . . or will it ensue in unresolved argument.  I respect his choices.  They are the right choices for who he is.  I would like the same respect.  

Right now it is not an issue as to whether he will or won't pull the tube out the minute the doc says it is unlikely I will revive from a coma -  as he may well pass away before I do... but you never know.  This isn't the current issue at all.  The current issue is just simply getting the point across that this is my wish.  Period.  

When I step back from this, this is the same problem many people have - I can agree to disagree - and let him know that because I love him, his decisions are important to me and I will do everything in my power to uphold his choice.  

He would rather change my mind than agree to disagree.  I'm not going to.  So. . .the question isn't what to decide.  It's how to maintain peace in one's household when something so controversial is on the table.  
Well, you can always do what my wife and I did when we vehemently disagreed about who would get custody our children in the event that we both died.  Nothing.  We have done nothing about and we haven't discussed it since.  I don't even remember what the two positions were any more, although I'm sure she remembers.
 

vamrat

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I won't venture an opinion as it probably wouldn't be as well written as Liza's (and would be the same in content), but I will pray that it never matters for you.
 

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vamrat said:
I won't venture an opinion as it probably wouldn't be as well written as Liza's (and would be the same in content), but I will pray that it never matters for you.
Thank you, Vamrat. :)
 
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