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The "Deuterocanonicals"

Doubting Thomas

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I just got a new THIRD MILLENIUM BIBLE from my wife for Christmas which contains the "Apocrypha". Like the KJV (1611), however, it sets those books apart in the middle between the OT and NT. I'm trying to come up with a Bible reading plan for the coming year and would be interested in including these books in their traditional order within the OT. Does anybody know what that order is or where I can find it? Thanks.
 

James

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DT,

You can get the Lectionary for the month at the Greek Orthodox or OCA.

try www.oca.org

Its in PDF format

james
 

Linus7

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Doubting Thomas said:
I just got a new THIRD MILLENIUM BIBLE from my wife for Christmas which contains the "Apocrypha". Like the KJV (1611), however, it sets those books apart in the middle between the OT and NT. I'm trying to come up with a Bible reading plan for the coming year and would be interested in including these books in their traditional order within the OT. Does anybody know what that order is or where I can find it? Thanks.
I am envious.

Let us know how you like that Bible. I have thought about buying one of those.

How is the paper relative to highlighting and note-taking?

Print big enough?
 

Doubting Thomas

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Oblio said:
Thanks. I'm curious though--my TMB has a II Esdras which is different than the II Esdras of the LXX (which includes Exra-Nehemiah). Is this not regarded by the Orthodox church as canonical? I've read that it was listed as IV Esdras in the Vulgate (with I Esdras=Ezra, II Esdras = Nehemiah; and III Esdras = I Esdras of the LXX). Anyone have any other info on this particular book?
 

Doubting Thomas

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Linus7 said:
I am envious.

Let us know how you like that Bible. I have thought about buying one of those.

How is the paper relative to highlighting and note-taking?

Print big enough?
The print is not particularly large. It is written in a single column paragraph format. The paper is rather thin and I don't think it would be conducive to highlighting. Still, it looks pretty good to me.
 

James

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DT,

According to my Greek Bible info:

Greek

2Esdras ch 1-10 = Ezra or 1 Esdras (vulgate)

2Esdras ch 11-23 = Nehemiah or 2 Esdras or Nehemias (vulgate)

Hope it helps more than confuses.

james
 

SamB

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Jakub said:
2Esdras ch 11-23 = Nehemiah or 2 Esdras or Nehemias (vulgate)
Or Esdras Gamma.

The Vulgate's Esdras IV, according to my limited understanding, does not exist in the Septuagint, neither in the canon nor an appendix.

Ironically, the Tridentine canon does not contain Esdras IV or Esdras III (LXX's Esdras Alpha), but that canon, contrary to popular knowledge, is not necessarily closed.

In IC XC
Samer
 

Doubting Thomas

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My source must have it wrong, for apparently it has the following designation in the LXX:

I Esdras (which is also I Esdras in the KJV Apocrypha and is III Esdras in the Vulgate)

II Esdras (which corresponds both to Ezra and Nehemiah in the KJV and to III Esdras in the Vulgate)

III Esdras (which is the same as II Esdras in the KJV Apocrypha and was considered IV Esdras in the Vulgate)

I guess my question if this ("III Esdras") was really in the LXX or not. And if not--and if it's not considered canonical by Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or Protestant--how did it get in the Protestant apocrypha (as "II Esdras") or in the old Vulgate (as "IV Esdras")? Where did it come from?
 

SamB

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Doubting Thomas said:
My source must have it wrong, for apparently it has the following designation in the LXX:

I Esdras (which is also I Esdras in the KJV Apocrypha and is III Esdras in the Vulgate)

II Esdras (which corresponds both to Ezra and Nehemiah in the KJV and to III Esdras in the Vulgate)

III Esdras (which is the same as II Esdras in the KJV Apocrypha and was considered IV Esdras in the Vulgate)
This still does not correspond to the classifications I am familiar with. Here is what I know:

I Esdras, or Esdras Alpha (which is also I Esdras in the K.J.V. Apocrypha and is III Esdras in the Vulgate)

II Esdras, or Esdras Beta (which corresponds both to Ezra in the K.J.V. and to I Esdras in the Vulgate)

III Esdras, or Esdras Gamma (which is the same as Nehemiah in the K.J.V. and was considered II Esdras in the Vulgate)

The last Esdras book is not in the Septuagint. In the Vulgate, it is classified as IV Esdras. In the K.J.V., this may be II Esdras.

I guess my question if this ("III Esdras") was really in the LXX or not. And if not--and if it's not considered canonical by Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or Protestant--how did it get in the Protestant apocrypha (as "II Esdras") or in the old Vulgate (as "IV Esdras")? Where did it come from?
The Tridentine canon, which omits Esdras III and IV (per Vulgate classification) was drawn up after the Reformation and as a response to the Protestant discarding of the so-called apocryphal texts . Before then, printed Bibles did contain the deuterocanonical texts (including IV Esdras) of the Vulgate. Therefore IV Esdras (per Vulgate classification) featuring in the Protestant list of apocryphal texts is not unusual. As for its existence in the LXX, I am not aware of it.

How did it get into the Vulgate? Not a clue. Is it perhaps similiar to the deuterocanonical books of other Eastern Churches, with which the Eastern Orthodox are not familiar--the mark of a local tradition?

In IC XC
Samer
 

Doubting Thomas

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Sam,

I've been reading about this since my last posts and other sources (particularly the "Catholic Encyclopedia") agree with you in indicating that what is known as IV Esdras in the Vulgate (II Esdras in the KJV Apocrypha) was NOT in the LXX.

As to the rest of your most recent post, thanks for the additional info. :)

In Christ,

DT
 
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