The Final Proof: Mary had several children.....

freddief

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"For Your sake I bore disgrace; humiliation covered my face.  I am become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons; for the zeal of Your house consumed me, and the insults of those who disgraced You fell on me"

Psalm 68:8-10, Orthodox Study Bible page 726
 

biro

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Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
 

Eastern Mind

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There's always that one person who thinks they have the cat in the bag and it will somehow be so epic that it will send shockwaves throughout the universe.  :laugh:
 

choy

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An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
 

Eastern Mind

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Well I guess that tears it, since that was the final proof :p
 

biro

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Eastern Mind said:
Well I guess that tears it, since that was the final proof :p
Oh no! I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! Now I will become a megachurcher and believe whatever Benny Hinn tells me!

:eek: :eek:
 

LBK

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Your assertion proves nothing.

In ancient cultures, the words children, brothers, sisters did not necessarily mean fruits of one's womb or one's siblings. What does St Paul mean when he opens his epistles with Brethren or My child Timothy? Does he share a biological mother with all those present? Did he physically beget Timothy? Of course not.

Even today, many cultures retain this broad meaning to refer to members of their extended family.
 

freddief

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choy said:
An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
well if its a question of alienation from all Jewish people, as you suggest, how come James was bishop in Jerusalem?  how come there was a church in Jerusalem for that matter?
 

choy

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freddief said:
choy said:
An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
well if its a question of alienation from all Jewish people, as you suggest, how come James was bishop in Jerusalem?  how come there was a church in Jerusalem for that matter?
Read Acts thoroughly and then come back to me.  It is all there.
 

PeterTheAleut

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freddief said:
"For Your sake I bore disgrace; humiliation covered my face.  I am become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons; for the zeal of Your house consumed me, and the insults of those who disgraced You fell on me"

Psalm 68:8-10, Orthodox Study Bible page 726
Whereas a Psalm can be considered prophetic of Christ, prophecy was not the primary purpose of the Psalms. For instance, this passage from Psalm 68 was not written to speak directly of the future Messiah; rather, it was written primarily to speak of issues the psalmist faced while he was writing the Psalm. We see in this Psalm imagery that we also see to some degree in Jesus Christ, but that can't be seen as proof of any position for or against Mary's ever-virginity.
 

freddief

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biro said:
Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
but any children Joseph had by a previous marriage would not have been the Lord's half-siblings, unless Joseph himself sired the Lord.  
 

freddief

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LBK said:
Your assertion proves nothing.

In ancient cultures, the words children, brothers, sisters did not necessarily mean fruits of one's womb or one's siblings. What does St Paul mean when he opens his epistles with Brethren or My child Timothy? Does he share a biological mother with all those present? Did he physically beget Timothy? Of course not.

Even today, many cultures retain this broad meaning to refer to members of their extended family.
i would suggest that none of this extends to the phrase "my mother's sons"
 

biro

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freddief said:
biro said:
Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
but any children Joseph had by a previous marriage would not have been the Lord's half-siblings, unless Joseph himself sired the Lord.  the Lord Jesus had no half-siblings
The Orthodox believe that He did.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably the first time you even heard about that, and I'll bet you didn't even do any research on what the Orthodox think about it, before coming to an Orthodox board. You just came to spam people.
 

freddief

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choy said:
freddief said:
choy said:
An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
well if its a question of alienation from all Jewish people, as you suggest, how come James was bishop in Jerusalem?  how come there was a church in Jerusalem for that matter?
Read Acts thoroughly and then come back to me.  It is all there.
I know whats in Acts.  please read carefully what i wrote, and the point i was answering
 

biro

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freddief said:
choy said:
freddief said:
choy said:
An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
well if its a question of alienation from all Jewish people, as you suggest, how come James was bishop in Jerusalem?  how come there was a church in Jerusalem for that matter?
Read Acts thoroughly and then come back to me.  It is all there.
I know whats in Acts.  please read carefully what i wrote, and the point i was answering
Freddie, are you just some kid fresh out of Bible camp? Did you just come here because you've been told the Orthodox are bad or something?

Do you even know what you are talking about?
 

erimos

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This is a divisive topic that achieves nothing other than fuelling pride and is a form of trolling.
 

freddief

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biro said:
freddief said:
biro said:
Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
but any children Joseph had by a previous marriage would not have been the Lord's half-siblings, unless Joseph himself sired the Lord.  the Lord Jesus had no half-siblings
The Orthodox believe that He did.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably the first time you even heard about that, and I'll bet you didn't even do any research on what the Orthodox think about it, before coming to an Orthodox board. You just came to spam people.
look, if they did not have the same father (they didn't) and if they did not have the same mother (they didn't), then how could they be half-siblings?
 

Eastern Mind

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freddief said:
biro said:
freddief said:
biro said:
Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
but any children Joseph had by a previous marriage would not have been the Lord's half-siblings, unless Joseph himself sired the Lord.  the Lord Jesus had no half-siblings
The Orthodox believe that He did.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably the first time you even heard about that, and I'll bet you didn't even do any research on what the Orthodox think about it, before coming to an Orthodox board. You just came to spam people.
look, if they did not have the same father (they didn't) and if they did not have the same mother (they didn't), then how could they be half-siblings?
Jesus is called the Son of David, even though Joseph was not his father. So is Jesus really the Son of David?
 

choy

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freddief said:
biro said:
freddief said:
biro said:
Oh boy, here we go.

Someone please explain to him about St. Joseph's previous marriage, and what half-siblings are?
but any children Joseph had by a previous marriage would not have been the Lord's half-siblings, unless Joseph himself sired the Lord.  the Lord Jesus had no half-siblings
The Orthodox believe that He did.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably the first time you even heard about that, and I'll bet you didn't even do any research on what the Orthodox think about it, before coming to an Orthodox board. You just came to spam people.
look, if they did not have the same father (they didn't) and if they did not have the same mother (they didn't), then how could they be half-siblings?
By Jewish Law, Joseph is Jesus' father.
 

choy

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freddief said:
choy said:
freddief said:
choy said:
An alien to my mother's sons talks about alienation from all Jewish people, not a literal "sons of Mary".  Besides, if Jesus was rejected by his brothers, why was James the bishop of Jerusalem?  Why did he have an Epistle in the Bible?
well if its a question of alienation from all Jewish people, as you suggest, how come James was bishop in Jerusalem?  how come there was a church in Jerusalem for that matter?
Read Acts thoroughly and then come back to me.  It is all there.
I know whats in Acts.  please read carefully what i wrote, and the point i was answering
I read it carefully.  Clearly you do not know Acts, otherwise you woulnd't ask questions like how there was a Church in Jerusalem or why James was the bishop there.
 
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