The non-existence of God

minasoliman

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Marc1152 said:
minasoliman said:
Marc1152 said:
Clancy Boy said:
Also both Jesus and Laozi were ostensibly born to virgins.  Does that prove the early Christians copy the Chinese?  No it does not.
I think i read that it is scientifically possible for a  human child to be born of a Virgin Mother. Very very rare, but possible. Who knew?
???

None that I heard of.  Never happened (except with Christ).  Even if one was to do some sort of in vitro gene placement from let's say two females, you get imprinting diseases.
This is not the article I originally read but it seems informative. A human virginal birth is theoretically possible. The odds are very long, but possible.

http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/
I skimmed through the article.  As the article says, "virtually zero" are the chances.  A sperm is at least necessary to prevent imprinting diseases or teratomas, as the article is describing.  Second of all, even if possible in lab conditions to produce a viable offspring, you can only produce female offspring from parthogenesis.  In truth, the virgin birth of Christ would be considered a miracle beyond any proportion because not only do you bipass all the obstacles to make a viable offspring, but the fact that a male was born is not only virtually zero, but almost definitely zero chances this can occur in nature.
 

Marc1152

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minasoliman said:
Marc1152 said:
minasoliman said:
Marc1152 said:
Clancy Boy said:
Also both Jesus and Laozi were ostensibly born to virgins.  Does that prove the early Christians copy the Chinese?  No it does not.
I think i read that it is scientifically possible for a  human child to be born of a Virgin Mother. Very very rare, but possible. Who knew?
???

None that I heard of.  Never happened (except with Christ).  Even if one was to do some sort of in vitro gene placement from let's say two females, you get imprinting diseases.
This is not the article I originally read but it seems informative. A human virginal birth is theoretically possible. The odds are very long, but possible.

http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/
I skimmed through the article.  As the article says, "virtually zero" are the chances.  A sperm is at least necessary to prevent imprinting diseases or teratomas, as the article is describing.  Second of all, even if possible in lab conditions to produce a viable offspring, you can only produce female offspring from parthogenesis.  In truth, the virgin birth of Christ would be considered a miracle beyond any proportion because not only do you bipass all the obstacles to make a viable offspring, but the fact that a male was born is not only virtually zero, but almost definitely zero chances this can occur in nature.
Yes, I think we can take the odds of "Virtually" zero and run with it, as in once in recorded  human history. The point is that it is not impossible.
 

KFLINT

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I would like to think of God as real....however from a empirical perspective one would have to suggest the possibility that God does not. That being the case, God would be the ultimate aspect of mans own ego.

Humanity once saw it's self as the center of the universe and the Sun revolved around us, we were wrong, we may again be, in thinking that of the untold stars and infinite planets that this would be the one place that the creator of all chose to take up shop.
 

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He could have. I just thought that the original post had meant the question in our world, in the here and now.
 

Ortho_cat

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KFLINT said:
I would like to think of God as real....however from a empirical perspective one would have to suggest the possibility that God does not. That being the case, God would be the ultimate aspect of mans own ego.

Humanity once saw it's self as the center of the universe and the Sun revolved around us, we were wrong, we may again be, in thinking that of the untold stars and infinite planets that this would be the one place that the creator of all chose to take up shop.
How do we know where the center of the universe is and isn't?
 

ialmisry

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KFLINT said:
I would like to think of God as real....however from a empirical perspective one would have to suggest the possibility that God does not. That being the case, God would be the ultimate aspect of mans own ego.

Humanity once saw it's self as the center of the universe and the Sun revolved around us, we were wrong, we may again be, in thinking that of the untold stars and infinite planets that this would be the one place that the creator of all chose to take up shop.
And what if, as the only evidence we have states, of all those untold stars and infinite planets, this IS the one place that the Creator of All chose to take up shop?
 

Achronos

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Marc1152 said:
This is not the article I originally read but it seems informative. A human virginal birth is theoretically possible. The odds are very long, but possible.

http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/
"Yes, in theory. However, a number of rare events would have to occur in close succession, and the chances of these all happening in real life are virtually zero"
 

Achronos

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Has it been deemed a scientific fact that the universe is not eternal and not 'infinite'?
 

minasoliman

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Marc1152 said:
minasoliman said:
Marc1152 said:
minasoliman said:
Marc1152 said:
Clancy Boy said:
Also both Jesus and Laozi were ostensibly born to virgins.  Does that prove the early Christians copy the Chinese?  No it does not.
I think i read that it is scientifically possible for a  human child to be born of a Virgin Mother. Very very rare, but possible. Who knew?
???

None that I heard of.  Never happened (except with Christ).  Even if one was to do some sort of in vitro gene placement from let's say two females, you get imprinting diseases.
This is not the article I originally read but it seems informative. A human virginal birth is theoretically possible. The odds are very long, but possible.

http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/
I skimmed through the article.  As the article says, "virtually zero" are the chances.  A sperm is at least necessary to prevent imprinting diseases or teratomas, as the article is describing.  Second of all, even if possible in lab conditions to produce a viable offspring, you can only produce female offspring from parthogenesis.  In truth, the virgin birth of Christ would be considered a miracle beyond any proportion because not only do you bipass all the obstacles to make a viable offspring, but the fact that a male was born is not only virtually zero, but almost definitely zero chances this can occur in nature.
Yes, I think we can take the odds of "Virtually" zero and run with it, as in once in recorded  human history. The point is that it is not impossible.
Did you miss that fact that even if possible, it's impossible to have male offspring?

At this very moment, is has never happened in humanity based on a solely natural basis.  Thus, it's impossible at the moment.

I'm not trying to run with anything.  This is fact.  Let's not turn the miracle of the conception of Christ into a natural phenomenon.  His incarnation and resurrection are very unique and unreproducible events at the moment.  They are mysteries.  That's it.  To try to meditate on explaining the mystery in a natural way is like poking at a wild lion.

 

minasoliman

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Entscheidungsproblem said:
Achronos said:
Has it been deemed a scientific fact that the universe is not eternal and not 'infinite'?
We don't know.
It seems that what can be observed at the moment points to limitation of the universe, but theoretical physicists are quite confident in their mathematical interpretation that the (x)-verse is unlimited (x being uni or multi).
 

Clancy Boy

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Achronos said:
Has it been deemed a scientific fact that the universe is not eternal and not 'infinite'?
Science would be the last place I would look for facts.
 

Clancy Boy

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Achronos said:
Entscheidungsproblem said:
Achronos said:
Has it been deemed a scientific fact that the universe is not eternal and not 'infinite'?
We don't know.
Isn't dark matter and dark energy accelerating the expansion of the universe?
Why are you talking about dark energy and dark matter as if they were anything more than purely hypothetical?
 

Achronos

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God is free. He created us in His image, so we are also free. He limits His omnipotence out of respect for our free will and personhood. We are free to submit our will to Him, or not.

C. S. Lewis: "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done', and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way'."

Jesus came into the world to give us a perfect example of what it means to live in communion with God in this life. That is an amazing gift. However, not everyone receives this gift in life -- perhaps because of geography, perhaps because their parents made it clear to them that Xianity is a farce, perhaps because they simply don't have the intellectual capacity to fathom it... and so God judges them according to what they DID receive.
 

chrevbel

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Clancy Boy said:
Science would be the last place I would look for facts.
Of course it would be.  Because once you've found them, why would you continue looking?
 

Jetavan

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chrevbel said:
Clancy Boy said:
Science would be the last place I would look for facts.
Of course it would be.  Because once you've found them, why would you continue looking?
How are you defining "fact"?

"No, our science is no illusion. But an illusion it would be to suppose that what science cannot give us we can get elsewhere." -- Sigmund Freud, The Future of an Illusion
 
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