The non-existence of God

ialmisry

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Papist said:
Entscheidungsproblem said:
FatherHLL said:
Really?  There are no reasons to bring up a first cause for all other things?
You are assuming there is a first cause though, since the human mind is so used to such a structure of events.  What if existence (in terms of a multi-verse, cyclical universe, etc) has always been?  Some attributes you assign to a deity, should then be assigned to the naturalistic world.
All the multi-verse model does is push the same problem back a few steps. You just have a larger universe to explain. No dice buddy.  
Right, it does not eliminate the problem of causality but buries it in several more steps so that people bail before getting to the fact that the problem still exists without God.  
If the theory of a cyclical universe (or mulitverse) is correct there need be no first cause, it is infinite in the dimension of time and therefore 'eternal'. Theists like to bring god up as a first cause, but then fail to explain the first cause of this entity or even the nature that allows it to be infinite in any scientific terms.
That's why one is called Creator, and the other creation.  If the First Cause was just a cause like all the rest, then at best you would have deism, but more likely monism.
So you don't have to explain the system because you gave it a different name, wow!
Since you can't get past the superficial, depth being beyond your reach, I can see how names confuse you. As for explaining the system, you would have to be weaned first before serving that up.

GiC said:
Do you even read this dribble before you post it? A monkey throwing feces at a keyboard could have come up with a better response.
Was that a Freudian slip? I've always suspected that you spend time here to prove that a monkey banging on a typewriter can't produce Shakespeare.

GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
A rudimentary theory of an infinite universe/multiverse is an infinitely better approach than bringing in some magical being that you insist you don't have to explain.
Why explain Him? We can know Him, while watching the cosmologists entertain us with their tales of big bangs, strings, dark energy, and other theories du jour.
GiC said:
Insisting there has to be a first cause, throwing in the idea of a god as an explanation, then refusing to give a first cause for this god is such an obvious fallacy I shouldn't even have to point it out.
Yes, what would we do without you to tell us what to think. Who needs revelation when we have Greeki's assertions?
Who needs 'revelation' when they have half a brain and even the tiniest shred of common sense?


GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
If your comfortable with the idea of your god not having a first cause, then perhaps you should apply Occam Razor and cut out the middle man, ascribing that attribute to the universe/multiverse instead.
Then we would end up chasing our tails with the monists. And the cosmologists.
So instead you just bury your head in the sand?
Why would we do that?  Christ is risen, and we don't need fossils.
 

trevor72694

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John of the North said:
TryingtoConvert said:
minasoliman said:
Atheism is at its strongest when people actually become less Christlike.
If you're serious you're seriously deranged. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent. Christianity is a joke. An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

An old story is told about a drunk who fell into a pit. The sides of the pit were so steep and he was so inebriated that he could not get out. He cried in alarm to anyone who would hear him.

A Jew walked by, stopped, took out the Psalms and quoted:-

“I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength” (Ps 88:4)

“My son,” he said, observe God’s Law and you will not stumble.” With that he walked on by.

A Muslim walked to the edge of the pit, peered over and declaimed: “You are a drunk, an unbeliever. First submit both Allah and to his laws, then you will know Paradise.” In disgust, he also walked away hurriedly.

A Hindu approached, a sage. “Your karma is now set by this deed. There is nothing you can do. Accept death and on your next rebirth perhaps your soul will make more progress.” The sage calmly walked away.

A Buddhist monk approached and with compassion he looked down on the man and tried to teach him to meditate. “Try to extinguish your desires … for earthly freedom, even for life itself. With desire comes suffering. With the right mental attitude you too can attain nibbana.” The monk retreated from the pit with a beatific smile on his face.

The drunk man grumbled noisily to himself in the pangs of his pain that all men were the same. With much difficulty he slumped and forward and fell into a fitful sleep.

Suddenly he was rudely awoken by a rough fellow gently shaking him. This man had let himself down into the pit with a rope.

The descent was so difficult beset with sharp stones, briars and obstacles that his hands and body were bleeding.

He took a spare rope, tied it round the drunken man’s waist who fell silent in disbelief. The drunk felt himself dragged to the side of the pit whereupon his rescuer strapped them both together and raised them up on a pulley fixed into the edge of the top of the pit for that purpose.

As they both stood out of the pit into the sunshine, unshackled, the drunken man, who was now a little more sober, looked round. The stranger had gone but there was a rather odd charge that lingered on in the air. He did not feel alone.

He looked back into the pit and thought thankfully about the great sacrifice this Man had made to save him.
what a wonderful story!  thanks for that!  God Bless!
 

minasoliman

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TryingtoConvert said:
minasoliman said:
Atheism is at its strongest when people actually become less Christlike.
If you're serious you're seriously deranged. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent. Christianity is a joke. An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

Fortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan. I don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers. The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.
I like how you singled out Christianity as your punching bag of all religions, calling all others "self-consistent" but Christianity worst of garbage.  I'll take that as a badge of honor.  I will take crap from you any day in the name of Christ.  On behalf of whatever you experience, all Christians seem to you "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant."  And to that I say, if that's what you saw, then it's understandable why you're an atheist.  When you're this angry, let's face it, you're simply in denial of your reasons for atheism.  You think it's because of your intelligence that you're atheistic, but really it's because of what you see around you.

Perhaps, you'll never believe.  But from what I understand, you children being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on, perhaps because he/she might also experience "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant, delusional" atheists.
 

ialmisry

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TryingtoConvert said:
minasoliman said:
Atheism is at its strongest when people actually become less Christlike.
If you're serious you're seriously deranged. I mean let's face it the Jews were first
No, they weren't.
so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet
No, they don't.
so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive
No, they aren't.
so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent.
No, they aren't. But since you display no knowledge of any of them, assUme that an assertion must be taken at face value, and have yet to explain why being first, last or inclusive has any relevance to the Truth, I'm not sure you learning any facts on Judaism, Islam or Hinduism is going to make your thinking any more coherent.
Christianity is a joke.
Although your credentials as court jester may be in order, your "expertise" has failed you here.
An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do,
Only the seriously deranged condemn the gift of free will as a curse.
so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do
He did not say "I will kill you." He said "You will die by death."
and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place.
He created them, not the problem.
God pity your children.
Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.
Earth to TtC!....Earth to TtC!....Earth to TtC!

Even the secular benefits of Christianity have been amply been recognized and secured by history.


Fortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan.
What part of paradise do you call home again?
I don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers.
Oh? is that why you come here, seeking abuse?
The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance.
If you posts are any indication of your skills, they must be piss poor missionaries for you to get the better of them.  I should think that even the dumbest JW could knock you down a notch.
My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.
So are all the children in our Sunday School.
With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.
Hopefully your family is better than the "Murray's" (in quotations, because no Murray family, with married husband and father, ever existed:
In 1941, she married John Henry Roths. They separated when they both enlisted for World War II service, he in the United States Marine Corps, she in the Women's Army Corps. In April 1945, while posted to a cryptography position in Italy, she began an affair with an officer, William J. Murray, Jr. Murray was a married Roman Catholic, and he refused to divorce his wife. Mays divorced Roths and began calling herself Madalyn Murray, and gave birth to a boy she named William J. Murray and nicknamed "Bill."

In 1949, Murray completed a bachelor's degree from Ashland University.[7] In 1952, she completed a law degree from South Texas College of Law; however, she failed the bar exam and never practiced law.[4] In later writing for American Atheists, she referred to herself as "Dr. O'Hair," likely with regard to her law degree (a juris doctorate), although it is not standard practice for individuals in the United States with law degrees to do so. On November 16, 1954 she gave birth to her second son Jon Garth Murray, fathered by her boyfriend Michael Fiorillo.[3]

She and her two children traveled via ship to Europe with the intention of defecting to the Soviet embassy in Paris and residing in the Soviet Union. The Soviets denied them entry.[4] Murray and her sons returned to Baltimore, Maryland in 1960.[8]

Murray stated that she worked for seventeen years as a psychiatric social worker, and that in 1960 she was a supervisor at the Baltimore city public welfare department.[7]
Worked 17 years as a psychiatric social worker. Says a lot about the system.

There is a ray of light though: William, the one for whom she sued in the US Supreme Court to ban prayer in school, received baptism:
William J. Murray is the chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition, a non-profit organization in Washington, D.C., active on issues related to aiding Christians in Islamic and Communist nations.

William is the son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair,[1] an United States atheist activist who came to national attention in Baltimore, Maryland when she filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court of the United States, saying that compulsory prayer and reading of the Bible in schools was unconstitutional.

Murray converted to Baptist Christianity in 1980. His mother reportedly stated, upon learning of his conversion, "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times ... he is beyond human forgiveness."[2] He felt similarly negative toward her in his first book, My Life Without God, as he made allegations such as: "She was just evil … She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents' inheritance."[3] Bill also repudiated his mother upon the occasion of her death, saying "I used to ask people to pray for my mother's salvation. I don't do that anymore…. My mother was an evil person."[2]

William J. Murray is the author of several books including Let Us Pray and The Church Is Not For Perfect People. His most recent book is The Pledge: One Nation Under God, for which the foreword, "A Washington, DC insider", was written by Congressman Todd Akin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray
 

ialmisry

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trevor72694 said:
John of the North said:
TryingtoConvert said:
minasoliman said:
Atheism is at its strongest when people actually become less Christlike.
If you're serious you're seriously deranged. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent. Christianity is a joke. An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

An old story is told about a drunk who fell into a pit. The sides of the pit were so steep and he was so inebriated that he could not get out. He cried in alarm to anyone who would hear him.

A Jew walked by, stopped, took out the Psalms and quoted:-

“I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength” (Ps 88:4)

“My son,” he said, observe God’s Law and you will not stumble.” With that he walked on by.

A Muslim walked to the edge of the pit, peered over and declaimed: “You are a drunk, an unbeliever. First submit both Allah and to his laws, then you will know Paradise.” In disgust, he also walked away hurriedly.

A Hindu approached, a sage. “Your karma is now set by this deed. There is nothing you can do. Accept death and on your next rebirth perhaps your soul will make more progress.” The sage calmly walked away.

A Buddhist monk approached and with compassion he looked down on the man and tried to teach him to meditate. “Try to extinguish your desires … for earthly freedom, even for life itself. With desire comes suffering. With the right mental attitude you too can attain nibbana.” The monk retreated from the pit with a beatific smile on his face.

The drunk man grumbled noisily to himself in the pangs of his pain that all men were the same. With much difficulty he slumped and forward and fell into a fitful sleep.

Suddenly he was rudely awoken by a rough fellow gently shaking him. This man had let himself down into the pit with a rope.

The descent was so difficult beset with sharp stones, briars and obstacles that his hands and body were bleeding.

He took a spare rope, tied it round the drunken man’s waist who fell silent in disbelief. The drunk felt himself dragged to the side of the pit whereupon his rescuer strapped them both together and raised them up on a pulley fixed into the edge of the top of the pit for that purpose.

As they both stood out of the pit into the sunshine, unshackled, the drunken man, who was now a little more sober, looked round. The stranger had gone but there was a rather odd charge that lingered on in the air. He did not feel alone.

He looked back into the pit and thought thankfully about the great sacrifice this Man had made to save him.
what a wonderful story!  thanks for that!  God Bless!
Indeed! Amen! Amen! Amen!
 

minasoliman

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sainthieu said:
Trying: Why don't you just change your moniker to "ProudLeftyAtheist" and have done with it? You're toxic, and you're full of nothing but vitriol and lies. (Reading Andrew Sullivan will do that to you.) You're here under false pretences, and I suggest you be banned.
No, I don't think he should be banned.  His reaction and his posts serve as an example of how bitter atheists can be in their lives, and his presence really is a blessing in disguise.
 

ialmisry

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GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator. 
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
 

minasoliman

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GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.  It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator. 
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Alas, the turning point of any belief system, the ultimate "Why."  For believers, the answer exists, but for non-believers the answer doesn't, and the question merely exists.  Like the question, life either simply is and never shall be again or demands an purposeful answer.
 

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ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator. 
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
If I want to hallucinate...there's a drug for that...but while not on drugs, I prefer to be in control of my faculties.
 

ialmisry

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator.  
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
If I want to hallucinate...there's a drug for that...but while not on drugs, I prefer to be in control of my faculties.
Control? What control? You're all just random DNA, with urges and hormones. Or so you boast.

You've never explained, AFAIR, how meaningless DNA man has any use for mathmatics. In the end, even its technological uses in the end have no meaning if human existence has no purpose. In the end, why should anyone care?  Or is that what the hallucinagenics are for?
 

greekischristian

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minasoliman said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator. 
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Alas, the turning point of any belief system, the ultimate "Why."  For believers, the answer exists, but for non-believers the answer doesn't, and the question merely exists.  Like the question, life either simply is and never shall be again or demands an purposeful answer.
For the most part, but I have to give the Taoists credit, they see the only purpose of life as living a temporal existence. It's really the one organized religion that has managed to evolve enough to divorce itself from questions of meaning or purpose.
 

minasoliman

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GiC said:
minasoliman said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator. 
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Alas, the turning point of any belief system, the ultimate "Why."  For believers, the answer exists, but for non-believers the answer doesn't, and the question merely exists.  Like the question, life either simply is and never shall be again or demands an purposeful answer.
For the most part, but I have to give the Taoists credit, they see the only purpose of life as living a temporal existence. It's really the one organized religion that has managed to evolve enough to divorce itself from questions of meaning or purpose.
I don't know much about Taoism to say anything on that regard, but I see it as choice, not as evolving into some sort of reality.  In fact, a meaningless life simply means everything we achieve or experience is meaningless, and that I find it a form of devolution because our minds simply evolved to search for meaning, not to throw it away.
 

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ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator.  
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
If I want to hallucinate...there's a drug for that...but while not on drugs, I prefer to be in control of my faculties.
Control? What control? You're all just random DNA, with urges and hormones. Or so you boast.
Guess my random DNA simply contained the blueprint for a more capable computational system. :)

You've never explained, AFAIR, how meaningless DNA man has any use for mathmatics. In the end, even its technological uses in the end have no meaning if human existence has no purpose. In the end, why should anyone care?  Or is that what the hallucinagenics are for?
Use? I don't know if there's a use. That isn't really the point of mathematics, we do it because it's interesting...not because its useful. If you talk to most mathematicians, you'll find it to mostly be a hedonistic pursuit that just happens to have occasional applications.
 

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator.  
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
If I want to hallucinate...there's a drug for that...but while not on drugs, I prefer to be in control of my faculties.
Control? What control? You're all just random DNA, with urges and hormones. Or so you boast.
Guess my random DNA simply contained the blueprint for a more capable computational system. :)
and even, for sake of argument, it did. So?

GiC said:
ialmisry said:
You've never explained, AFAIR, how meaningless DNA man has any use for mathmatics. In the end, even its technological uses in the end have no meaning if human existence has no purpose. In the end, why should anyone care?  Or is that what the hallucinagenics are for?
Use? I don't know if there's a use. That isn't really the point of mathematics, we do it because it's interesting...not because its useful.
So we can just delete your criticism about the uselessness of Christianity/Church/God..., no?


ialmisry said:
If you talk to most mathematicians,
Except for one, all the ones I knew dropped out of Physics because they couldn't take it anymore. Just came across your post
GiC said:
orthonorm said:
Entscheidungsproblem said:
You don't have enough screen space to see how to the right Philosophers are.
Reminds me of an old joke,

A physics professor comes to his dean and says: 'We need another million dollars to upgrade our particle accelerator.' Dean moans: 'Why can't you guys be like folks from math department? They only need are pens, paper, and wastebaskets.' The professor replies: 'Did you mean folks from philosophy department? They only need pens and paper.'
GiC said:
you'll find it to mostly be a hedonistic pursuit that just happens to have occasional applications.
So like masturbation.
 

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This tread reminds me of a section of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", concerning the Babel fish:

The Babel fish" said The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quietly, "is a small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe...if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish."
"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic."
  ;)
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
minasoliman said:
Atheism is at its strongest when people actually become less Christlike.
If you're serious you're seriously deranged. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent. Christianity is a joke. An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

Fortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan. I don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers. The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.
It's funny that what you are attacking really isn't Christianity. You are much like Nietzche in this. You don't even know your enemy.
 

greekischristian

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ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
FatherHLL said:
Also, multiverse theory still does not explain why there is something rather than nothing.   It simply seeks to explain how something rather than nothing can exist without the need for a transcendent creator.  
Why, as a meaningful question, is simply 'How did this become'. Now, when it's construed to be asking for 'purpose' or 'intent', then it's a simply a meaningless question because the response is tautological: there is none.
Just because you can't rise above the level of technology does not mean everyone else is so limited.
If I want to hallucinate...there's a drug for that...but while not on drugs, I prefer to be in control of my faculties.
Control? What control? You're all just random DNA, with urges and hormones. Or so you boast.
Guess my random DNA simply contained the blueprint for a more capable computational system. :)
and even, for sake of argument, it did. So?
It just explains our respective positions on this thread, nothing more, no special meaning.

GiC said:
ialmisry said:
You've never explained, AFAIR, how meaningless DNA man has any use for mathmatics. In the end, even its technological uses in the end have no meaning if human existence has no purpose. In the end, why should anyone care?  Or is that what the hallucinagenics are for?
Use? I don't know if there's a use. That isn't really the point of mathematics, we do it because it's interesting...not because its useful.
So we can just delete your criticism about the uselessness of Christianity/Church/God..., no?
Not merely useless, also absurd.

ialmisry said:
If you talk to most mathematicians,
Except for one, all the ones I knew dropped out of Physics because they couldn't take it anymore. Just came across your post
Your school must have had a crappy math department then, but that's not uncommon, I've seen some colleges out there who will give you a degree in mathematics with only two or three classes in pure theory. We had some dropouts from fields like EE and Physics go into applied math, but none really studied theoretical mathematics, analysis and algebra had about a 50% failure rate...many of the students that couldn't pass those classes after a couple tries went on and got degrees in EE, Physics, or Applied Math.

GiC said:
orthonorm said:
Entscheidungsproblem said:
You don't have enough screen space to see how to the right Philosophers are.
Reminds me of an old joke,

A physics professor comes to his dean and says: 'We need another million dollars to upgrade our particle accelerator.' Dean moans: 'Why can't you guys be like folks from math department? They only need are pens, paper, and wastebaskets.' The professor replies: 'Did you mean folks from philosophy department? They only need pens and paper.'
GiC said:
you'll find it to mostly be a hedonistic pursuit that just happens to have occasional applications.
So like masturbation.
Kinda, and it's pretty fun...but sometimes we get to do it with other people, which is even more fun. ;)
 

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The only way that an atheist can prove to himself that god doesn't exist is when he yells out "Is there a god?"  and no one will reply back to him. At this moment the heathen will bask in glorious laughter.
I watched an episode of The Twilight Zone that was similar to this once. There was a guy begging that he wanted to be alone. He died and finally got his wish. In the beginning he loved it.  After some time had passed he realized that being left alone wasn't exactly what he thought it would be. It actually turned out to be the worst kind of hell for him. After begging and pleading into thin air for what seemed hours. The devil had thrust him back to life. He repented and became a new man. The moral of the story is that we should be careful what we wish for.
 
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Thank you for your considered reply iamsiry, you have confirmed everything I expected of you. Nice to know I was spot on with my assessment of how you would reply. You can be on your way now.
 

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
So we can just delete your criticism about the uselessness of Christianity/Church/God..., no?
Not merely useless, also absurd.
Yes, I wasn't going to bring up that your criicism were not only useless, but absurd as well, but since you did...

GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
If you talk to most mathematicians,
Except for one, all the ones I knew dropped out of Physics because they couldn't take it anymore. Just came across your post
Your school must have had a crappy math department then,
LOL. The Univeristy of Chicago?
Large and distinguished, the Mathematics faculty (in the top 5 out of 139 reviewed by the National Research Council) includes two winners of the Fields Medal (the equivalent of the Nobel Prize for mathematics), two members of the National Academy of Sciences, and five recipients of Chicago's Quantrell Award for Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching. Faculty interests range from algebraic geometry, Lie theory, and partial differential equations to finite groups and finite group theory, topology, logic, and dynamical systems.
https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/majorsminors/mathematics.shtml

I'm beginning to thing that your arrogance is proving something infinite alongside God.

but that's not uncommon, I've seen some colleges out there who will give you a degree in mathematics with only two or three classes in pure theory. We
Who's "we"?

 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Thank you for your considered reply iamsiry, you have confirmed everything I expected of you. Nice to know I was spot on with my assessment of how you would reply.
Did you plagerize your assessment as well?
You can be on your way now.
Sorry, I'm not Pavlov's dog, so like our God, I am not at your beck and call.

You came here to spout your prattle. That you are disappointed at our laughter is your problem.
 

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John of the North said:
minasoliman said:
John of the North said:
TryingtoConvert said:
You can be on your way now.
ordering people around now, I see.
Does everything he say have to be jeered at?
Does he need to ride around on his high horse??
Let him do so.  There's no need for us to respond to it, at least not on his level of immaturity.
 

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minasoliman said:
John of the North said:
minasoliman said:
John of the North said:
TryingtoConvert said:
You can be on your way now.
ordering people around now, I see.
Does everything he say have to be jeered at?
Does he need to ride around on his high horse??
Let him do so.  There's no need for us to respond to it, at least not on his level of immaturity.
Knocking him off it may do him some good.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Christianity is a joke.
Your sense of humor seems skewed.  But let's proceed to the substance of your argument, no?

TryingtoConvert said:
An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.
An omnipotent and omniscient God who has abundant love created people, but instead of creating self-serving robots He created us to have free will, and then to allow us the exercise of free will (what's the point of having it without being able to use it?) He gave us a choice - eternal life, or death.  We were tricked into thinking death was life, and we thus chose death.  Instead of abandoning us to our choice, forever to be condemned to death as a final ending, He chose to become one of us, suffer, die, and rise, in order to not only save us, but to do so while leaving that free-will (the third gift, after love and life itself) intact and unharmed - to allow us to make that choice again.

Christianity teaches us to combat the real problems of the world (hunger, poverty, disease, abandonment, etc.) head-on, not out of feeling superior or empowered, but out of humble love for the other people; to give without expectation of repayment, or expectation of conversion.  Those who do not practice this are not Christian, and those who practice it imperfectly are, well, human.

TryingtoConvert said:
The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.
So you're admitting to being a sadist?  What's the explanation for having "fun" by accosting "well meaning" people?  Your kids may be "superstition free" (which, by the way, we are, too), but they're not getting much of a lesson in interpersonal relationships.

TryingtoConvert said:
With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell. 
We're really not called to "worry about" paradise or hell - we're supposed to care for people in the world, to pray for them and for us, grow in our relationship with God, and to gather together in thanksgiving for the blessings of life.  If you find that objectionable, I'm interested in hearing why.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Bringing my children into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.
No paparazzi here followed you here and brought them into the discussion. Your boasting over the automatons (since you fault God's giving free will, I take it that you try to deprive your children of it) did that.
TryingtoConvert said:
when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Bringing my children into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.
And who's to blame for that exactly?
 
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Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Bringing my children into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.
I happen to agree with you, but if I recall correctly you've tried to use them as a "weapon" in this discussion:

TryingtoConvert said:
The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.

With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.  
I'm perfectly willing to leave them out of any further discussion, if you're willing to stop using them to attempt to "score points."  (Which, personally, I don't think your use of them accomplished much in this discussion.)
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to go onto a Christian board and assert that, "If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality," and, "Christianity is a joke," etc., as part of an argument... I'm not going to both explaining, it is pretty obvious.

I do agree that sentiments like, "I feel sorry for your grandchildren," and the like are completely inappropriate.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Bringing my children into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.
I do have to say, though, that while contemplating your complaint here, a thought has come to mind: you have brought a sword to this discussion, and have attempted to use it freely, and yet you complain when others have attacked you with swords, too.  You should either treat this like an "appropriate discussion," and thus change your tone and approach, or you should be mindful that, just as you are permitted to make controversial claims and statements here in the "Free-For-All" Forum, others are, too.
 

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TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
Grandchildren?  I thought you just had children.  Have we aged here that fast?

The problem is you assert a lot of nonsense as "obvious."

I've skimmed through the entire thread, and seen no sorrow expressed for your grandchildren, or your children as part of an argument. Can you quote?-it's not plagerism if you attribute.
 
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That was a mistype, fruedian slip. Yes children, haven forbid I have grandchildren right ialmisry?
 

greekischristian

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ialmisry said:
TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
The problem is you assert a lot of nonsense as "obvious."
Seems to be a lot of that going on around here...
 

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
The problem is you assert a lot of nonsense as "obvious."
Seems to be a lot of that going on around here...
indeed:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=941;sa=showPosts
 

greekischristian

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ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
The problem is you assert a lot of nonsense as "obvious."
Seems to be a lot of that going on around here...
indeed:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=941;sa=showPosts
Yep, you got it, just about everyone I quoted and responded to today. ;)
 

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GiC said:
ialmisry said:
GiC said:
ialmisry said:
TryingtoConvert said:
Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument...I'm not going to bother explaining, it's pretty obvious.
The problem is you assert a lot of nonsense as "obvious."
Seems to be a lot of that going on around here...
indeed:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=941;sa=showPosts
Yep, you got it, just about everyone I quoted and responded to today
made better sense than you did.  But that's your trend practically any day.
 
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