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Romaios

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Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque. I think this goes back to the time when Greeks had their books printed in Venice. A footnote in a Horologion printed there in 1856 explains:

Semeiosai, hoti to anothen Symbolon tou Megalou Athanasiou, synkrithen tois archaiotatois cheirographois tois sozomenois en te tou hagiou Markou Bibliotheke, kai symphonon heurethen gnesion te kai homophonoun te gnome tes Orthodoxou Ekklesias, edoxe touto typothenai. Ta gar typothenta en Parisiois kai allothi diapherousi kata te ten phrasin kai ten ennoian. Touto de, aparallakton kai tou en Moschodia typothentos, eusebei gnome entautha prosetethe.

"We mention that the Symbol of the Great Athanasios printed above was compared to the oldest manuscripts kept in the Library of St. Mark and, since it was found according, authentic and in agreement with the mind of the Orthodox Church, it was judged fit to be printed. The versions printed in Paris and in other places are discordant both in their phrasing and in their intention (with the Orthodox faith), but this one, just like the one printed in Moscow, was added here in good faith." 
 

PJ

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Romaios said:
Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.
The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".
 

Romaios

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Peter J said:
Romaios said:
Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.
The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".
Well, the Greek version I was referring to goes like this:

Τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἀπὸ τοῦ Πατρός, οὐ πεποιημένον οὔτε δεδημιουργημένον οὔτε γεγεννημένον, ἀλλ'ἐκπορευτόν.

"The Holy Spirit [is] from the Father - neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding".

The Latin original has:

Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens.

* et Filio = Filioque.
 

Asteriktos

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I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?
 

PJ

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Asteriktos said:
I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?
I think I speak for everyone hear when I say

no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations​



(Well, maybe not everyone here. But most.)
 

stanley123

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Romaios said:
Peter J said:
Romaios said:
Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.
The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".
Well, the Greek version I was referring to goes like this:

Τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἀπὸ τοῦ Πατρός, οὐ πεποιημένον οὔτε δεδημιουργημένον οὔτε γεγεννημένον, ἀλλ'ἐκπορευτόν.

"The Holy Spirit [is] from the Father - neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding".

The Latin original has:

Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens.

* et Filio = Filioque.
The claim is that the filioque was a later addition to the original Athanasian creed, which did not have it.
 

Cyrillic

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Peter J said:
no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations​
Most of us would be banned by the end of the week anyway. They don't take kindly to debate over there. Strange for an apologetics forum.
 

theistgal

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Cyrillic said:
Peter J said:
no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations​
Most of us would be banned by the end of the week anyway. They don't take kindly to debate over there. Strange for an apologetics forum.
Yet there are still a few of us who manage to hang on over there ... AND here ... both boards have their pros & cons.  :)
 

JoeS2

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Asteriktos said:
I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?
Oh, by all means, allow me to check my pockets....................Nope not a cent......Then again Im one of the "Banned for Lifers"...
 

ialmisry

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Papist said:
Schultz said:
Papist said:
Shlomlokh said:
Papist said:
Irish Melkite said:
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ...  

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :eek:

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.
If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
Good questions. Probably because your faith is close enough to ours, and that you have a partial unity with Catholics, in that you have valid sacrments. This does not mean we think you are the Church, but we do think that elements of the Church exist in Eastern Orthodoxy. Evidence that we don't view your Church as part of "the Church" is found in the fact that we will not concelebrate liturgy with the Eastern Orthodox.
Au contraire.  When the Metropolitan in Transylvania did so, he was almost deposed: the Holy Synod let him off with a severe warning, to him and others.  I don't recall the Vatican saying a thing.
 

ialmisry

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Cyrillic said:
Peter J said:
no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations​
Most of us would be banned by the end of the week anyway. They don't take kindly to debate over there. Strange for an apologetics forum.
well, they are sorry.
 

theistgal

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Since the thread is still going, thought you might be somewhat amused to know that a certain Eastern Catholic monk who posts there regularly was suddenly banned for several hours in the EC subforum. He asked about it and was told by the moderator that it was an accident, and he's since been reinstated.

But the *really* interesting part is that I asked him about this on Facebook (where he's a friend) and he later told me he had received a PM from an administrator scolding him about our conversation there!  :eek:
 

Cyrillic

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theistgal said:
But the *really* interesting part is that I asked him about this on Facebook (where he's a friend) and he later told me he had received a PM from an administrator scolding him about our conversation there!  :eek:
I'd love to read what he had to say about us.
 

ialmisry

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theistgal said:
Since the thread is still going, thought you might be somewhat amused to know that a certain Eastern Catholic monk who posts there regularly was suddenly banned for several hours in the EC subforum. He asked about it and was told by the moderator that it was an accident, and he's since been reinstated.

But the *really* interesting part is that I asked him about this on Facebook (where he's a friend) and he later told me he had received a PM from an administrator scolding him about our conversation there!  :eek:
 

Papist

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JoeS2 said:
Asteriktos said:
I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?
Oh, by all means, allow me to check my pockets....................Nope not a cent......Then again Im one of the "Banned for Lifers"...
Me too! but it was my own fault. In my youthful stupidity, I cursed at one of moderators through PM. Sigh. That was years ago, but still :(
 

theistgal

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Cyrillic said:
theistgal said:
But the *really* interesting part is that I asked him about this on Facebook (where he's a friend) and he later told me he had received a PM from an administrator scolding him about our conversation there!  :eek:
I'd love to read what he had to say about us.
Well, I'm just waiting for her (not him, hint hint!) to contact me about my comments here.  ::)
 

JoeS2

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Cyrillic said:
theistgal said:
But the *really* interesting part is that I asked him about this on Facebook (where he's a friend) and he later told me he had received a PM from an administrator scolding him about our conversation there!  :eek:
I'd love to read what he had to say about us.
Sounds like things haven't changed any over there.......
 

PJ

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JoeS2 said:
Sounds like things haven't changed any over there.......
Not trying to white-wash catholic.com, but it ought to be said that each side does have it's own quirks.

For example, I often get the impression that the Orthodox are a bit shocked whenever Catholics actually believe what the Vatican says we have to believe. (And I don't tell me it's my overactive imagination ... Nah, I'm just kidding you can tell me.)
 

JoeS2

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Peter J said:
JoeS2 said:
Sounds like things haven't changed any over there.......
Not trying to white-wash catholic.com, but it ought to be said that each side does have it's own quirks.

For example, I often get the impression that the Orthodox are a bit shocked whenever Catholics actually believe what the Vatican says we have to believe. (And I don't tell me it's my overactive imagination ... Nah, I'm just kidding you can tell me.)
In actuality, Im shocked when they DONT believe in what the Vatican says they have to do believe...
 

ialmisry

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JoeS2 said:
Peter J said:
JoeS2 said:
Sounds like things haven't changed any over there.......
Not trying to white-wash catholic.com, but it ought to be said that each side does have it's own quirks.

For example, I often get the impression that the Orthodox are a bit shocked whenever Catholics actually believe what the Vatican says we have to believe. (And I don't tell me it's my overactive imagination ... Nah, I'm just kidding you can tell me.)
In actuality, Im shocked when they DONT believe in what the Vatican says they have to do believe...
I'm more shocked that the Vatican not only says it, but says it's infallible.
 
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