The Sports Thread

SolEX01

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Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.
 

Fr. George

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SolEX01 said:
Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.
I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
 

James

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Fr. George said:
SolEX01 said:
Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.
I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...
 

Asteriktos

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Tittle... that was one of the teachers on Saved By the Bell, right? Mr. Tittle?  Wait, that was Tuttle. Nevermind. Don't know him. :)
 

SolEX01

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Jakub said:
Fr. George said:
I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...
I knew he played for the Giants; I had forgotten he played for the 49'ers and the first iteration of the Baltimore Colts.
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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SolEX01 said:
Jakub said:
Fr. George said:
I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...
I knew he played for the Giants; I had forgotten he played for the 49'ers and the first iteration of the Baltimore Colts.
Y.A. Tittle: Innovator of the "jump pass!"

Selam
 

Fr. George

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Jakub said:
Fr. George said:
SolEX01 said:
Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.
I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...
Ahh, true; but I was hoping my post would be a rallying cry for the 1% to become more active here.  In fairness, I was putting out a bit of a test, because Mr. Tittle isn't actually dead, and I was hoping a few people would catch on, but no matter.  Whether alive or dead, I think anyone could win 2 out of 8 with Mr. Peterson lining up behind/next to/near them.
 

copticorthodoxboy

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Fair enough.  Rua is actually known for his aggression, particularly for his Muay Thai clinch, stomps, and soccer kicks (stomps and soccer kicks are prohibited by the NSAC; therefore not allowed in the UFC).  Here is a short video of Rua using such techniques in PrideFC (which allowed stomps and soccer kicks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI3Ic7IDofw
My friend ordered the PPV, and one person in attendance didn't know much about either fighter and actually fell asleep during the fight. As for me, I was on the edge of my seat (not to mention four of the other five in attendance).  Machida is known for his "elusiveness" and his counter-striking; Rua, known for his "wild and aggressive striking" stayed patient and was able to counter most of Machida's counter-strikes.  One must remember that up until this fight, Machida had never lost a round in 15 professional MMA fights; while in this fight the judges gave Rua two rounds (though the majority of MMA analysts gave Rua four rounds).  To me (and perhaps there is some bias due to Rua being my second favorite fighter) the fight was very exciting. 
 
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Florida Gator linebacker Brandon Spikes suspended by his coach for the ENTIRE FIRST HALF of the next game against Vanderbilt for trying to gouge out the eyes of a University of Georgia player. Way to take tough stand Urban Meyer! ::) Watch what he did here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cISxU8Crulw

I wonder what would have happened to a player who did the same thing to St. Tebow?

Selam
 

Asteriktos

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I gotta admit, I had to chuckle with an eye gouging post right after a UFC post, because whenever I think of an eye gouge, I think of how the initial UFC events were advertised as no holds barred and no rules events, when in fact they did have rules like no eye gouging.

EDIT--Also, I agree, if something like that had happened to one of the marquee names, the penalty would have been much worse.
 
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You're right about Machida; very elusive...so elusive in fact that I forgot he was even in the cage at times. I guess that's what happens when fighters like him get their black belts after an intensive 1-3 years of training. When a student crams in a whole semester's worth of study the week before the final exam, it may get them the pass they’re after, but nothing of what they learnt during that cram-period is going to be able to register in the long-term. Likewise with Machida, it's clear that in all probability half the moves he learnt in the course of his training did not have the opportunity to properly settle in his subconscious; his ability to get a good handle of such moves so quickly may have allowed him a smooth pass to the next belt, but from that point on those moves would have become completely redundant for future use.

Given that my own Martial Arts forte and personal favourite is BJJ, I guess I am most unimpressed by how most of the UFC fighters I've seen so far handle ground combat. I can't remember the particular fighter's name, but I recall the commentators going on and on about how he's a purple belt in BJJ and that should he get his opponent down to the ground it might as well be all over for his opponent given how skilled a BJJ fighter he was. First of all, his take-downs were shocking—aimless shooting at the legs from a ridiculous distance. Second of all, all he did from whatever position he found himself in the course of grappling (closed guard, to side-control) was ground and pound like a meathead. There are over 600 techniques in BJJ, and all this guy could do was maintain his position and ground and pound.

If we took away the cage, the audience, the commentators, the belts etc., and just had two guys out on the street looking to destroy one another—and conversely protect themselves as best they can from being so destroyed—for whatever purpose they have in mind (this is an Orthodox forum, so let's go with "opposition to heresy" yeah?), all in the heat of the moment, then I might understand the blatant disregard for technique. But otherwise, I have yet to see a UFC fight that does justice to MMA (granted, I have only seen 4-5 such fights).

Here is a short video of Rua using such techniques in PrideFC (which allowed stomps and soccer kicks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI3Ic7IDofw
Still not impressed. Stomps and soccer kicks don't require much skill; or at most they require such in terms of the ability to time these things properly, but otherwise they're just cheap shots as far as I'm concerned. For me, the most impressive moment of that entire clip was the high kick at 00:33—which didn’t even connect.
 

copticorthodoxboy

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Happy to have this logical discussion concerning MMA (usually on MMA forums one will run into the biggest idiots).
Concerning Machida and his karate, from what I understand he has been practicing karate, bjj, and even sumo since he was a young child (his father is a karate sensai in Brazil).  He has both a black belt in bjj and "Machida" karate, a style created by his father.  Rua also owns a black belt in bjj, but both fighters consider themselves stand-up fighters.
Concerning Rua's stomps and soccer kicks, the were presented to show his aggressive style, not so much for there technique.  Whether these techniques are really "technical" or not doesn't really matter to me, I believe they should be legal in all MMA matches.
Now concerning the technique of these fighters, not all fighters follow the certain techniques to perfection (in fact some fighters, such as Emelianenko Fedor seem to pride themselves in not following the technique).  Furthermore, much of the techniques found in bjj (as well as judo) focus on creating leverage with the gi; and since the vast majority of mma organizations prohibit fighters from wearing the gi the orthodox technique often times must be adapted to no gi (thus the fights are less technical).
 

Pravoslavbob

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^  I don't know how an Orthodox Christian could watch barbarous displays like these, yet alone enjoy them.
 

Rastaman

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Pravoslavbob said:
^  I don't know how an Orthodox Christian could watch barbarous displays like these, yet alone enjoy them.
I have to agree.....
 
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I will answer for myself, but I do so as a practising Mixed Martial Artist.

In theory, and generally speaking, the Martial Arts do not aim at the destruction of the opponent, and are underpinned by philosophical assumptions conducive to the Christian spirit. For example, the Art of Hapkido (one of the Martial Arts i'm being trained in) is underpinned by what is known as the 'Principle of Water' which seeks to build patience and non-resistant adaptability. When water flows down a hill, for example, towards a rock, it doesn't seek to push past the rock by exerting extra force, rather it just flows around it (harmonious adaptability); should the rock be too large to allow the stream of water to pass around it, the water patiently waits until it reaches sufficient volume on the rock to overflow that rock. Such is the type of psychology that Hapkido techniques instil in the practitioner, and no doubt this can be spiritualised in a number of meaningful ways. More generally, most of the Martial Arts help develop a Christian character by inspiring humility, patience, perseverance, focus, discipline, and respect. Mixed Martial Arts, incorporating the techniques of a variety of Martial Arts, in a sense increases the intensity of the physical and psychological conditioning involved and hence reinforces the general virtues aroused by the individual Martial Art systems to a greater degree. The spiritual implications of MMA training are, as I have discovered by experience, many, and I have plenty more examples and issues that I could discuss in further detail, but I’ll leave it at that.

In terms of viewing MMA matches, I personally don't find it enjoyable when I see two fighters simply trying to destroy each other whilst using very little technique—which I think I made pretty clear in my previous post. MMA is not about brutal force. I enjoy watching fights with a trained eye able to pick up on good methodical and technical movements and maybe even learn a few such moves myself. When we fight at our MMA gym, we are constantly taught not to exert so much force in a punch or kick as if in an attempt to knock the opponent out, but only to employ kicks and punches strategically. The fight should end not because the opponent got knocked unconscious by a power blow to the head, but because he was strategically put into submission—a point at which he is able to tap out before incurring any real injury.

I don't doubt that some enjoy watching MMA just to watch their favourite fighter beat the heck out of the opponent; and I am aware that even in my own MMA centre, some of the guys I train with couldn't give a hoot about strategy or character development, but just want to be to able to kick some butt should they ever get into a street fight. In the end, "to the pure, all things are pure".
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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EkhristosAnesti said:
I will answer for myself, but I do so as a practising Mixed Martial Artist.

In theory, and generally speaking, the Martial Arts do not aim at the destruction of the opponent, and are underpinned by philosophical assumptions conducive to the Christian spirit. For example, the Art of Hapkido (one of the Martial Arts i'm being trained in) is underpinned by what is known as the 'Principle of Water' which seeks to build patience and non-resistant adaptability. When water flows down a hill, for example, towards a rock, it doesn't seek to push past the rock by exerting extra force, rather it just flows around it (harmonious adaptability); should the rock be too large to allow the stream of water to pass around it, the water patiently waits until it reaches sufficient volume on the rock to overflow that rock. Such is the type of psychology that Hapkido techniques instil in the practitioner, and no doubt this can be spiritualised in a number of meaningful ways. More generally, most of the Martial Arts help develop a Christian character by inspiring humility, patience, perseverance, focus, discipline, and respect. Mixed Martial Arts, incorporating the techniques of a variety of Martial Arts, in a sense increases the intensity of the physical and psychological conditioning involved and hence reinforces the general virtues aroused by the individual Martial Art systems to a greater degree. The spiritual implications of MMA training are, as I have discovered by experience, many, and I have plenty more examples and issues that I could discuss in further detail, but I’ll leave it at that.

In terms of viewing MMA matches, I personally don't find it enjoyable when I see two fighters simply trying to destroy each other whilst using very little technique—which I think I made pretty clear in my previous post. MMA is not about brutal force. I enjoy watching fights with a trained eye able to pick up on good methodical and technical movements and maybe even learn a few such moves myself. When we fight at our MMA gym, we are constantly taught not to exert so much force in a punch or kick as if in an attempt to knock the opponent out, but only to employ kicks and punches strategically. The fight should end not because the opponent got knocked unconscious by a power blow to the head, but because he was strategically put into submission—a point at which he is able to tap out before incurring any real injury.

I don't doubt that some enjoy watching MMA just to watch their favourite fighter beat the heck out of the opponent; and I am aware that even in my own MMA centre, some of the guys I train with couldn't give a hoot about strategy or character development, but just want to be to able to kick some butt should they ever get into a street fight. In the end, "to the pure, all things are pure".
Thanks for that explanation. I admit that my prejudice is based in ignorance (as is all prejudice). I love football and even enjoy boxing, and many people who don't understand those sports consider them brutal and barbaric. I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.

Selam
 

Asteriktos

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I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.
I don't trust the numbers you find through a google search of things like "boxing deaths," but whatever numbers you use, boxing deaths far outnumber the 1-2 MMA deaths that have happened since MMA really took off in the 90's.
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Asteriktos said:
I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.
I don't trust the numbers you find through a google search of things like "boxing deaths," but whatever numbers you use, boxing deaths far outnumber the 1-2 MMA deaths that have happened since MMA really took off in the 90's.
That's what I thought.

Selam
 

copticorthodoxboy

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MMA isn't a sport which is going to be enjoyed by the masses, and if you don't enjoy watching it that is of course fine.  However, to those who consider it barbaric, here is some food for thought: there are a considerable amount more neck injuries, concussions, fractured and broken bones, and deaths in American football each year than there are in MMA (this is including highschool, college, and professional football in comparison to MMA in both amateur and professional promotions).  As Dana White (president of the UFC) often states what is more dangerous than American football. For example, in the NFL you have some of the most atheltic grown men (averaging around 250 pounds or so each) running at full spead colliding with each other; I suppose American football isn't considered as "barbaric" due it surpassing baseball as American's pasttime and perhaps due to the pads and helmet.
I for the most part take the approach of EA.  I am not a fan of fighters just slugging it out, I am a fan of technique.  While watching the fights, I am studying the techniques and seeing how to apply these techniques to my own game.
 
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